Recommend a .308 "brush bullet"..

[JCM]

Okay, okay....I'm not looking to shoot through brush.  

What  I am looking for is a great bullet for deer in thick areas, where shots come from any angle.  This bullet will be loaded in a 30'06 and a .308 and will probably be loaded to less than max pressures.  

You may say wait for a broadside shot, but most of the time the shooting lanes are very narrow and a less than perfect shot will be the only option.  Lots of quartering shots.  I highly prefer an exit wound.  Most shots are short and it is good to keep in mind that some of them will be nice broadside shots at 30 yards, so expansion is good....but I'd still like complete pass through on the hard angles...  Accuracy is important (often threading the needle between limbs on the shots), but I'm assuming I'll have to play with loads for some of the recommendationed bullets for that.

I know it's asking a lot....weight, make, manufacture, etc....any recommendations?

Thanks guys.

JCM

[jhalcott]

A friend of mine once said "throw a bowling ball at a hedge,then throw a spear! Now tell me which one went thru!!" However,in the thick stuff at less than 100 yards the 180 round nose is hard to beat! Hornady,Speer, Sierra and others make them.Find one that your gun likes and use it. By the way, they will STILL work for the 200 yard shots!!

[victorcharlie]

Have you thought about a Remington Corelokt 220 grain round nose?  Most of the old times I know that hunt an 06 use it......

[Don Fischer]

A friend of mine once said "throw a bowling ball at a hedge,then throw a spear! Now tell me which one went thru!!"

Now throw the bowling ball as fast as you threw the spear and see which one goes thru AND does the most damage.

I'm a big fan of 165 gr bullet's in the 308 and 30-06, don't use the 30-06 much tho. 180'sworked well but I had accuracy problems with 200 gr bullets. They shot ok but if I had to thred a needle, I couldn't.

I'd use the 165 or 180 in either spitzer or round nose depending on which shoot better in my rifle.

[Graybeard]

The one that is most accurate in your rifle is the one to shoot. It's the one most likely to go to that tiny spot clear of brush you need to hit and not hit brush. If you're expecting any shoulder fired bullet to go thru brush it hits and then hit game you're kidding only yourself unless the brush is less than 10' from the game. Then you can only hope. If it's further away from the animal hope is of no value, it's NOT gonna connect.

[R.W.Dale]

I understand what your asking. You wa't a bullet that even at a less than ideal angle will penatrate the deer far enough to get to the good stuff and still exit. I use the 165gr speer grand slam in my 06 loaded well below max.

[jhalcott]

I did a test for my own interest.I took a 3x3 piece of half inch plywood and drilled a bunch of 1/4" holes in it so they formed a triangle1.5' x 3'.(I was laid off with nothing to do).The holes were laid out like a set of bowling pins .Then 1/4" hardwood dowels were cut 6" long and stood in the holes.Then I set it at different ranges from 25 to 100 yards I put a target at 100 yards (110 when the plywood was at 100).I shot every thing from 22-250 to 45-70 at those pins trying to hit the target beyond.Many bullets were never found.The few that made it thru the pins rarely hit the target,BUT only when the target was moved to within 10 yards of the pin board! One very good bullet was a flat nose cast 420? grain gas checked bullet fired from a Siamese bolt rifle.This was NOT a T/C load! Some of the bullets would go off to the side and exit a ways from the entry point. I hate to admit it though RN's were almost always better than spitzers. 30 caliber was the strting point of consistent exit performance. and got better as you went up in caliber NOT in velocity.35/180's did better than 30/180's. those 45/420 were moving about 1600 to 1900 fps.

[Mikey]

I have always loaded the Hornaday 180 gn round nose soft point in the 308 and 30-06 for brushy areas.  It seems to 'move' the brances away better than a spire point but I can't be sure of that.  I have always found that even at factory load levels those Hornadays perform the way you want them to and I have never had a whitetail get up and walk away from one of those slugs.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Larry Gibson]

"Okay, okay....I'm not looking to shoot through brush."  

"What  I am looking for is a great bullet for deer in thick areas, where shots come from any angle.  This bullet will be loaded in a 30'06 and a .308 and will probably be loaded to less than max pressures."  

"You may say wait for a broadside shot, but most of the time the shooting lanes are very narrow and a less than perfect shot will be the only option.  Lots of quartering shots.  I highly prefer an exit wound.  Most shots are short and it is good to keep in mind that some of them will be nice broadside shots at 30 yards, so expansion is good....but I'd still like complete pass through on the hard angles..."

As I understand the above you are not asking for a bullet to "shoot through" brush but are asking for a close range load that will give complete penetration through a deer when shooting down "lanes that are vary narrow".  I go with the one post recommending the the 220 gr Remington RN CoreLok in both your '06 and .308 if they have have 1-10" twists. If the .308 has a 1-12" twist use the Speer 200 gr SP Hot Core bullet in it. I would not throttle them back too far as the '06 should be running 2400+ and the .308 2200+ fps with the 220 gr bullet. The .308 with the 200 gr Speer should be running 2300+ fps.

Another bullet I find marvelous in .30 cals for short range deer is the 190 gr Silvertip made for the .303 Savage. The bullets are really scarce these days but at 2000-2100 fps they are very deadly on deer.

Larry Gibson

[PaulS]

While there is no "magic" brush bullet tests have shown that the heavier a bullet is the better it performs in the brush. Sharp pointed bullets are typically better than round or SWC profiles. Even if you aren't going to be "pushing branches" with your bullets a heavy pointed bullet will penetrate from odd angles better than a light one so a 200 grain spitzer like a Speer Spitzer SP #2211 or Nosler partition would both work well but the Nosler is going to be a bit pricey.

[willysjeep134]

For close range only knockdown I don't feel a spitzer bullet is warranted. With handguns, the bullet with the biggest flat area on the nose wins. I would recomend either a 180 gr round nose or a 170 grain flat point made for the 30-30. That flat point will be just as accurate and powerful as any other bullet under 125 yards, and will have a lot better terminal performance, so long as you keep the velocity low. I've read about old timers making reduced loads for their 06's with the 170gr FP bullet and loading them to just over 30-30 velocities. In fact, I think Speer used to publish data for the 170's in the 30-06. If you don't expect to have to make shots over 125 yards, the flatpoint is hard to beat in my opinion.

[jpuke]

I agree with willysjeep, the 170 gr FP is a great bullet.  I worked up a load for it in my 308 a few years ago and though I never shot anything with it I was impressed with how well it shot.  I used the Hornady 170gr and found that it shot about 50% better than the spitzers I was using at the time.  I was a bit worried about it blowing up at 308 velocities but like I said, I haven't tried it on game.

[Harold50]

I wish I had good advice for you, but here are some thoughts:

I have a .308 I use in the bogs and spruce thickets in Northwestern Maine. I want that rifle to give me a second shot quickly if I should need it knowing that I probably won't have time at those ranges. I want the bullet to be accurate and "hold together" for the 20 yard shot. In addition, when I step to the edge of a clear-cut or look 200 yards down a two-track and see horns, I want a bullet that will group into a 3-4 inch circle as that may be the size of the window I've got in the brush out there.

Graybeard's advice is probably the best with the additional consideration others have offered about how well the bullet will hold together at close ranges, in my opinion ( you did want many opinions?).

I guess I also try to remember that my cousin's boy, who is ten, shot his deer last year here in the Vermont hardwoods with a .223 at 50 yards - right through the boiler room. It ran less than 30 yards. What I mean is, any bullet that gets through to the lungs will anchor a deer. For Maine I am thinking of changing to 180 grain bullets loaded for a muzzle velocity of @2400 only because I'm never sure I'll get a simple standing lung shot in the tight woods.

BTW- that .308 rifle is a Savage99F.

Now, if I'm going to be in a stand at the edge of a Maine clearcut, I'll carry my .270 or 30-06. In the 06 I'll use 165 grain bullets loaded a little hot so they'll reach - some of those clear-cuts are a half a mile wide (not that I'll shoot quite THAT far). From experience I know the 165s are accurate enough in that 03-A3 and that they will hit hard by the time they arrive at @ 2200 -2600 fps.

I guess I'm telling you that there is no perfect answer - you just consider all the possibilities, weigh their likelihood of ocurring, and then you make your decision based upon what you decide is most likely to happen.

Remember to spend some time practicing, too.

Best Wishes,
Harold

[JCM]

Lots of good info.  I appreciate the time and thought that was put into the replies.

I'm thinking about the Hornady Interbond in a 180 or perhaps 165.  From what I understand, they have great penatration and stay together very  well to continue penetrating/pass through....  They also open quickly on shorter shots........but this is all second hand knowledge.

I'm also considering several RN bullets in the 180-200 range.

Some of you mentioned it and it will probably be the deciding factor on the bullet I choose......It has to shoot in my rifle.  

The considerations are now:
1.  Accurate...I don't want to hit any brush....
2.  Good penetration on bad angle shots...really want pass through
3.  Open quickly on short, broadside shots......2 with 3 is a kicker...

Again, thanks for all the replies.  Take care,
JCM

[Steve P]

Get the most accurate bullet for the gun and learn to shoot the wings off a fly at 100.  Then you wont have to worry about the brush.  I have never loaded for brush, only for accuracy.

Steve  

[Siskiyou]

An old friend of mine hunts deer after snowfall in heavy cover.  He normally finds a track and follows it out.  Most of his shots are at close range.  His rifle is a Remington M760 in 30-06 with factory sights.  When asked what bullet he uses, he responds a 180 grain Remington round nose.  When asked why he uses that bullet he will tell you most of the deer he shoots is moving away from him.  His normal shot is what locals call a Texas heart shot.  It hits at the root of the tail and ranges up into the chest.  It is very effective.  Lighter bullets do not offer the same penetration and break up on the pelvic girdle.  Of course a well place bullet goes below the spine, but above the pelvis.

He says no other bullet is as effective.

[one$$shot]

In my opinion for shots that are 75 yards or less in heavy brush/briar nothing beats a shotgun slug.