Author Topic: 45-70 barrel length?  (Read 2342 times)

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Offline dave hall

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45-70 barrel length?
« on: February 02, 2006, 06:58:30 PM »
I'm getting a marlin 1895 I wanted a short barrel,but I found a good deal on a 22" .I thinking of getting it cut back as far as I legally can.like 16 1/2 or so.I mostly hunt in thick woods or swamps.My question is will going from 22 to 16 1/2 going to make that big a proformance or accuracy difference in a 1:20" marlin.
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Offline Thebear_78

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2006, 08:02:24 PM »
Accuracy probably wouldn't be that effected, but velosty will.  I don't think it will effect it enough to make a significant difference.  I really like my 18" barreled guide gun.  I wouldn't want that extra 4" of barrel.

Offline EsoxLucius

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2006, 04:07:53 AM »
I agree that accuracy probably won't be affected as long as a good crown is cut.  You would lose as much a 140 fps going from 22" to 16.5".  For short range woods hunting that will not make a big difference.  What ammo are you thinking of using?
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Offline dave hall

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2006, 12:40:50 PM »
Hornady new pointed stuff,and a friend of mine going to reload for me.I'm going to try and find a light bullet like a 250gr. to get a little more volocity to help with the drop.You guys know any good loads for deer.Thanks.
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Offline Ray P

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2006, 05:06:36 PM »
Quote from: dave hall
Hornady new pointed stuff...


In a lever gun?  Am I missing something?
TANSTAAFL

Offline Thebear_78

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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2006, 10:12:27 PM »
yep you sure are, hornady lever revolution ammo.  A soft pointed tip similar to a ballistic tip.

Offline dave hall

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2006, 02:22:55 AM »
Sorry about that I should have wrote out what I was talking about.The Hornady round I'm going to be using is 45-70 325gr. Evolution.These numbers are from Marlins new 24" XLR barrel.The gun these rounds were built around.

muzzle vel.-2050
muzzel ene.-3032
using a 325gr. ball and, like Thebear_78 said it has pointed rubber like tip for use in a lever gun it also comes in 30-30/35 rem./444/450 mar..
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Offline EsoxLucius

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2006, 03:29:26 AM »
Marlin 1895 45-70 22" barrel
300 grain Speer UniCor hollow point seated to 2.53" COAL and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp Die
Winchester brass, 2.1" trim
CCI 200 primer
53 grains H4198 START
60 grains H4198 MAXIMUM 2370 fps
Work up carefully from START towards MAXIMUM watching for signs of excessive pressure and velocity.  Do not exceed either the maximum charge or velocity.

Forget about the 250 grain bullet in the 45-70.  The only one is the Barnes XFN and because of its hardness and bearing surface length it almost can't be driven as fast as a 300 grain jacketed bullet.
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Offline Ray P

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2006, 08:09:06 AM »
Quote from: Thebear_78
yep you sure are, hornady lever revolution ammo.  A soft pointed tip similar to a ballistic tip.


Looked it up at MidwayUSA; Cute!  Up to now I segregated my 45-70 ammo as:

Marlin 1895 Cowboy:  405 gr FN lead only

Marlin 1895 GG:  JFPs only

TC Contender (w/16-1/4" bbl):  Barnes pointy bullets only.

Now that could all go out the window.
TANSTAAFL

Offline Buckeye

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2006, 02:58:50 AM »
I had a Guide Gun for years,bought it when it first came out ,but always felt it was to 'chunky' especially when compared to  Win.94's ,so I traded it and bought a 1895 Marlin with a 22in. barrel, it seems well balanced and a great shooter,I really don't miss the shorter barrel,Because if I'm going into ruff woods ,I use my ole 336 '1957 Vintage' in 35 Rem. or my huntin 94 BB in 375 Win.

EsoxLucius , that load seems interesting,very interesting. :grin:
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Offline Bucolic Buffalo

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2006, 08:58:35 AM »
dave

I have one question. I can understand the disre to have a short barrel 45-70 if that is what you want but why buy one with a 22" barrel and then go to the expence of having it cut down? why not just buy a 45-70 with a short barrel like the Marlin Guide gun?

Offline victorcharlie

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2006, 11:37:17 AM »
Right after I bought my 1895 I took it to the local smith to have a limbsaver fitted and a quick action tune.......

Now I don't know if this is true, but he told me the 45.70 is one cartridge that can truely benefit by a long barrel......said that's why the buffalo guns all had at least a 32" barrel............but we all know that was with black powder, not the more modern stuff.......

At the ranges that the 45.70 is best at losing some barrel to help handling while trudging through the thick stuff might be a good trade off.......one thing for sure, it makes big holes no matter what the barrel length.....
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Offline dave hall

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2006, 01:21:56 PM »
Bucolic Buffalo.
 I found one used for $419.00 a newer model with a 4X40mm Nikon scope, and leupold base & rings.I don't want to pass it up.I can get the barrel cut and crowned for about 45 bucks.
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Offline lovedogs

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2006, 11:40:02 AM »
For years I've read about guys wanting short barrels to use in the woods and must confess I just don't get it.  I hunt the woods and brush all the time and have found that anything longer than a Contender pistol seems to get in trouble with obstructions.  I've tried everything from 18 1/2 inches to 32 inches and have finally concluded that all rifles take some adapting to in the brush and thick woods.  I think lots of this talk is dreamt up by guys who have not hunted much.  Where I live we could take three antelope and four deer last year.  Two deer I took were in thick woods.  One was taken with a 26 in. barrel, the other was taken with a 32 in. barrel.  So I say take a gun you like to shoot and don't worry about the rest.  You'll adapt a lot better if you just have a good time and don't worry about all the hype you hear or read.

Sometimes a big deal gets made over nothing in the hunting world, like turkey hunting.  Don't mean to get off subject but it plays right into the discussion on hype.  Popular opinion says you need all this junk to hunt turkeys.  Baloney!  In our fall season we can shoot them with anything here.  I just go for a walk in the woods.  When I see a turkey, which is often, I just shoot his darn head off with my .22.  The only thing dumber than a turkey is the log he's standing near.

As you get older and more experienced you'll not be so swayed by hunting hype like length of rifles and difficulty in shooting a turkey.  Experience takes time.  And it sure is fun in the learnin'.

Offline F-F-Fred

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2006, 06:18:07 PM »
dave hall,

Go for it and enjoy. I just had a John Wayne Commemorative barrel in 32-40 Win installed on my Winchester Model 94 Wrangler in 32 Win Spl. I had the barrel shortened from 18.5" to Wrangler/Trapper length of 16".

You don't loose much of anything from shortening the barrel. It's the enjoyment you get from it that's the most important.

Yanqui
I'm Yanqui.

Offline Ray P

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2006, 03:24:05 AM »
Quote from: F-F-Fred
...Go for it and enjoy. ...
 Completely agree.  

Lovedog:  I don't think we are blindly following the gunwriters.    I think they are following us, looking in obscure corners for material that will earn them another week's income.  They pad their writing with technical jargon & half-understood theories to fill out their minimum length requirement.  All BS.

As for barrel length in 45-70; I have a T/C Contender Carbine (16-1/2"), a guide gun (18?), and an 1895 Cowboy (26").  The long barrel shoots beautifully, but it just isn't a comfortable carry gun.  It is too barrel heavy, and I don't want another case of tendonitis from carrying it in the field for a week.   No, I won't drill it for sling screws  :-).

The Guide gun balances better, and I like it's hammer arrangement better than the Contender.  So it goes in the woods much more often.  For me, it works out better, and that is what counts.
TANSTAAFL

Offline mt3030

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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2006, 08:37:37 AM »
I have tried several barrel lengths in 45-70. My hands down favorite 45-70 to hunt whitetail in the river bottoms is my 1895S Marlin (22"). Offers quick follow-up shots. I ordered a NEF 32" 45-70 tube for one of my Handi rifles, but it felt so muzzle heavy and "unhandy" I never even got sights on it before I sold it. I did make up a "truck 45-70", with a 20" barrel. Since my eyes have aged, I scope all rifles now, and the longer sight radius have no value. Besides using black powder, the long sight radius was one of the reasons for the /quote/"....said that's why the buffalo guns all had at least a 32" barrel..."/unquote/. Also they were shooting from the open with cross sticks, and at times shooting hundreds of rounds a day. I'm sure the long tubes were steadier to hold and dampened recoil.

Shoot whatever feels right, but shoot.

Wally


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Offline Holman

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45-70 barrel length?
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2006, 03:05:15 AM »
One of the things that I love most about my guide gun is the 18 inch barrel which makes it so handy to carry in the woods. I bought this gun because of the knock down power it has and I love shooting it. I have ghost ring sights on it and have no problem hitting what I aim at out to 75 yards or so.


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Offline Dee

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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2006, 05:35:17 PM »
I'm like that other old fart lovedogs. I have Model 94 Winchester 3030 bought new in 1957. Its a carbine and the blueing and finish are about 60 percent now. In 20 years of law-enforcement it saw marijuana fields, man-hunts and hours and hours of patrol car without a gun case. I'm retired from L.E. now and the rifle is semi-retired. I have hunted and fished all my life and one of my favorite rifles is a Navy Arms Model 92 with 24" octogon in 357mag. It's a great woods rifle and after 20 years as a drug interdiction officer and tracker I know what works in the woods. They all do. I like the sight radius (got that fiber optic front sight now) the extra velocity and the steadiness that comes with a little more weight. Besides that, I need the added exercise it gives me. These new woods rifles and mountain rifles and bean field rifles and so on have made gun writers rich. Until I read my first guns and ammo magazine I didn't know you weren't supposed to kill deer with a 3030 at 200 yards. Now you have to have one of those super duper short magnums with a 600 power scope range finder and backup ghost ring sights. My how hunting has changed. Whew! I guess I'm finished. Time for my Geratol and a nap. :wink:
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Offline lovedogs

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« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2006, 12:14:54 PM »
Continuing along this line, the longer bbls. hold steadier and give a much longer sight radius, which helps a lot in putting a shot where you want it.  A good example is my lady friend, Joyce.  She's a new shooter but wants to go along and shoot long-range silouettes.  We shoot out to a half-mile  using cast bullets and aperture sights.  A friend let her try his .45-70 Handi-Rifle.  It fit her really good so she liked it.  But I knew better what to buy her and she wound up with a new Buffalo Classic.  I got it all set up, padded, and sighted in with a good Shaver sight.  Inexperienced as she was the targets looked far away for her.  I told her to trust me, it'd work.  I told her where to hold and with her first shot she hit the gong.  She commenced to hit the next nine, also.  She found the advantage of a long barrel and a good sight.  You don't have enough money to buy her long-barreled .45-70 from her.  And, believe me, as they say, if she's shooting at you you can run but you can't hide.  I'm gonna have to keep sharp to stay ahead of this gal!

Offline Dee

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« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2006, 05:57:01 PM »
I had a couple of the standard length Marlins in 45-70. Good rifles but, in deep woods, late evening, and early morning lots of muzzle flash with hot loads. You could even see it in the bright sunlight. Not a really big deal I'm just figureing a guide gun looks like a camera flash going off in broad daylight.  I'll just keep dragging my 95 cowboy around with that old 26 inch octogon on it. For an old man it looks, feels, and shoots like a rifle ought to. :wink:
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline lovedogs

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« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2006, 06:36:40 AM »
Dee...

I wish you had a feather and I had your '95 Cowboy.  We'd both be tickled.  I got to Billings, Mt. last year and saw one on display at a big sporting goods store.  I know what you're talking about, it sure felt good to me.  But being a poor retired old fart I had to pass.  I still have dreams of it though.  Ain't that the way of things?  At some stage of life we quit dreaming of the ladies and start dreaming of guns.  Don't get me wrong.  I still adore the ladies.  But having a good gun is something in the realm of possibilities, and at my age good women are harder to find.

That Cowboy in .44 mag is sure a beaut, too.  But I hear it's got the wrong twist for big cast bullets.  Too bad.

Offline Blink

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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2006, 06:49:27 PM »
8 years ago, I bought a 1895 (22") I went straight from the gunstore to WWG and had a co-pilot made (18") plus a few extras.

I will never go back to a long bbl'ed levergun in 45/70 again. A few years back my wife bought a 1895 (22") and maybe I was too used to mine but I didnt like it.

I use mine for a different reason than most on this site. it is strictly hiking and protective use. I have different guns for hunting, and the shorter bbl does make a differance. I'm not to worried about long range shooting or velocity (something people are way to hung up on), besides  I had a 20" bbl'ed 458Lott and I could consistantly hit a soda can at a hair over 200 yards with open sights and a good rest. shorter bbls arent always a hinderance for long shots if you practice.

Offline Ray P

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« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2006, 05:56:37 PM »
Quote from: Blink
8 years ago, I bought a 1895 (22") I went straight from the gunstore to WWG and had a co-pilot made (18") plus a few extras.
....


I had to check up on the Co-Pilot you mentioned.  Neat gun!  And that Bushwacker is interesting, too.

Also, I'd been thinking of getting the big-loop lever for my 1895G, and it is helpful to see what it looks like installed.

I wonder how much influence the WWG trigger mods in your co-pilot may have had on your opinion of your wife's un-modified (I assume) rifle.
TANSTAAFL

Offline Blink

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« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2006, 06:27:34 PM »
Ray,
the biggest differance between my rifle and my wifes was the recoil. Her rifle was factory stock and compared to mine knocked the snot out of you. The trigger was alot better but the porting they do is amazing.

You can shoot mine all day. I assume its the porting atleast, plus the pachmyer pad I'm sure had something to do with it. IMO, best money I ever spent and this is one rifle I will never sell.

Even though I live just down the road from WWG, I dont work for them or represent them :)

You shoulda seen how they tamed the recoil in my Lott. wow

Offline Ray P

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« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2006, 06:40:13 PM »
Blink:

That makes a great deal of sense; thanks for the explanation.
TANSTAAFL

Offline lovedogs

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« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2006, 07:03:44 AM »
Guess what it all boils down to is the old addage, "Different strokes for different folks."

There are many uses for a rifle and, of course, different terrains.  And different opinions.  If I was trying to carry a rifle in a small space, such as an airplane, I'd probably opt for a short one.  But for most all other uses I still prefer a long one.  I've hunted all sorts of places and have never felt a long barrel was a problem.  Where I live now the pines are about as thick as anywhere and even my 32 in. bbl'd Buffalo Classic isn't a problem.

The statement about a short bbl. not being a hinderance on long-range shots just doesn't hold up.  I would agree that if you're shooting game with the .45-70 you shouldn't be shooting over 200 yds. and a short bbl. will work.  Velocity isn't the important thing here.  Balance and holdability is.  In almost any field position a long bbl. will balance better and be steadier to hold.  If we are talking true long-distance shooting the longer bbl. makes LOTS of difference.  I don't do long-range shooting at game with a .45-70, even though I could, and the caliber is certainly up to it.  Range estimation is just too critical.  But I shoot a lot of targets and silhouettes at very long range.  One range session using aperture sights at a silhouette at a half-mile distant would show you the need for a long sight radius.  At our club we have people who shoot at our far target which is 876 yds. away with all sorts of bbl. lengths.  Those using 20 & 22 inch bbls. have an almost impossible time getting hits.  Those with 26, 28, and up to 32 in. bbls. have a far better average.  This has nothing to do with accuracy or velocity.  It's purely a matter of being able to shoot better at long ranges with more sight radius.

So, a lot of it depends on what you're trying to do with your rifle.  The only advantage to a short bbl. is portability.  If that's your priority then you should use a short bbl.  If there are other factors that outweigh portability then you need a long bbl.

Even when it comes to carrying a rifle most long guns balance better and are easier to carry.  This, too, depends on how the rifle balances though, and weight involved.  Two cases in point are one of my .25-06's and my Buffalo Classic.  The .25 is a custom rifle.  Though it weighs the same as one of my .223's, 7 1/2 lbs., and has a 26 1/2 bbl. it is perfectly balanced and carrys so easily that it's almost unnoticeable.  The BC is a half-pound heavier but is also well-balanced and can be carried all day with ease.  And when it comes time to shoot neither of them is at all hard to hold steady.  They both settle right down and shoot like they had radar.  So, almost always, I'll grab a long gun.

Offline Ray P

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« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2006, 07:18:33 AM »
Lovedog;  What you say makes sense, but perception is all.  I have both, and from my experiences with both, I simply prefer the ported guide gun.  The Cowboy is just too long for my ease in practical use.

Don't get me wrong, the 1895 Cowboy is a great shooting gun; for me though, it is limited to rifle range/target use.
TANSTAAFL

Offline lovedogs

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« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2006, 11:39:05 AM »
That's why I began my post with "Different strokes for different folks."  What seems best for you might not seem best to me and vice versa.

The main thing is that we are happy with our own choices.

Mike

Offline Ray P

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« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2006, 11:55:05 AM »
Quote from: lovedogs
That's why I began my post with "Different strokes for different folks."  What seems best for you might not seem best to me and vice versa.

The main thing is that we are happy with our own choices.

Mike


Mike:  Completely agree!
TANSTAAFL