Author Topic: How does the U.S. Postal Service justify not shipping... (Read 1245 times)

Questor · « **on:** February 03, 2006, 04:35:56 AM »

... handguns?

It seems like just another example of how government makes a mockery of things. USPS was created specifically and only for shipping mail. It makes no sense that they can be selective about shipping anything that is entirely legitimate to ship-- for example, returning a gun from a gunsmith to its owner.

unspellable · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2006, 07:25:10 AM »

You can legally mail a live five foot iguana, or a package of live bees. But it's illegal to mail a baby garter snake. Go figure.

Questor · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2006, 07:34:47 AM »

Is it because the garter snakes are too cute to meet a government-mandated cuteness threshold?

darrell8937 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2006, 09:59:49 AM »

USPS(aka post office) ,, you can ship a hand gun but it has to be FFL to FFL,, adding to the cost. I once shipped a m1 garrand back to the supplier as I did not like the one delivered. They were not rude just uniformed. I told the guy "Not only can you but you will. It is not you call. I already had the specific chapter from the BIG BOOK OF POSTAL REGULATIONS. so he could look it up.. Hell the Book had a 1/8 inch of dust on it.. Out it went. Hand guns,, well use FED EX.. They are happy the post office are not 2 amendment supporters.

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2006, 10:29:23 AM »

The USPS is an anachronism that hangs together because millions of pieces of junk mail are sent out every day. Time will come when it will lose relevence altogether and it'll be shut down. It won't happen in my lifetime but it'll happen.

slave · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2006, 12:07:23 PM »

They seem to have issues with co-workers. Like most brain washed it must be the guns!!!!

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2006, 12:44:45 PM »

Does not the postal service have to follow the laws under the BATF just like everyone else. I think you are blaming the post office for not being able to ship a handgun when they have to follow the laws too.

FedEx and UPS are private companies and can set their own standards.

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2006, 04:19:29 PM »

Thanks Dave for your input. The USPS delivers over 47% of the worlds mail, at a cheaper price and more efficiently. As Dave stated the USPS did not make the laws, they conform to them. Take your complaints where they belong, at the voting booth. I work for the USPS and am happy to do so, we do a great job getting the mail to its intended address, in spite of how many "air heads" delivered it to us in such a poor condition. Go drive your Honda down to USP to ship your guns!!
Jim

Heavyhaul · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2006, 06:12:47 PM »

I drive FORDS, and I don't care for UPS. I worked there for a while. FRAGILE means nothing to them. "Move the package and let insurance cover it" is what I was always told. You just knockdown a 7 foot high wall of computer monitors then throw them on the rollers and ship them. I almost got brained by a big block crank kit that way. I don't know haw the others do it, but we sent out boxes of bolts that were half empty because we were not allowed to clean up the spill. As for cost, price sending a 5lb package. I try to stick with FED EX when possible. Just my :money: .

Questor · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2006, 03:57:23 AM »

Daveinthebush:

Are you saying that the USPS has to abide by different laws than UPS and FedEx regarding the shipping of handguns? Why are there differences? Is there an explicit law that says that UPS, Fedex and similar carriers can return a gun from a gunsmith to its owner, but USPS can't? That's seems to be the reality of it.

By the way, I just got the bill for my repair: $104 for repairs. $127 for shipping.

About the USPS: I see it primarily as a conduit for junk mail (i.e., hardcopy spam). Over 80% of my mail is junk. Probably closer to 90%. It makes me wonder what business they are really in.

slave · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2006, 06:15:41 AM »

FedEX & UPS charge or want to push overnight fees to help prevent theft. They are private and can mandate that as there procedure. It is not law.

USPS is not a common or contract carrier. Hand guns must be shipped by contract type carrier BATF law.

I would think that BATF would want to regulate this by mandating all firearms be sent usps were they would have even more power.

But for some reason BATF, Congress and USPS have some issues with each other. If we were knowledgable of all of the red tape and political bickering like S.662 we would want to clean house.

cvixx · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2006, 10:14:17 AM »

It has only been a few years since UPS decided to require shipping handguns Overnight, or 2nd Day if you can talk them into it. Before that everyone used to send handguns same as long guns. However, too many crooks working for UPS and too many small boxes went missing, so there is no longer an option of ground delivery.

Easier for UPS to change more than do background checks on their temp and full time employees. :roll:

JD11 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2006, 08:19:54 AM »

Well, I just bought a S&W 329PD revolver from an FFL seller in Oklahoma, he said it would be shipped by USPS with a USPS tracking number all the way from OK to Cody, Wyoming, which it was. I watched the FFL owner here in town open the genuine USPS red, white and blue shipping box when I picked it up. I didn't pay a lot of attention, but seems like the box had a "firearm" label on one side of it. Shipping cost----$10.

I also shipped a Howa 1500 back east by USPS as per advice from a local gun dealer. He said he has the best service and least problems using USPS when shipping his firearms.

corbanzo · « **Reply #13 on:** March 06, 2006, 08:42:52 AM »

Nevermind government connections. The USPS, UPS and Fed-Ex are all business, if one doesn't meet your needs, you can take your business elsewhere.

lovedogs · « **Reply #14 on:** March 19, 2006, 10:21:17 AM »

If I'm mistaken someone can correct me. My understanding is that a lawful owner of a gun (pistol or rifle) may ship it to any licensed repair person/factory for repair. You can't ship one to your Cousin Bill and he can't ship one to you. The issue isn't just one of the shipping, it's also one of the FFL's and registrations. People who don't hold FFL's can't receive them. If it's already yours you can have it returned to you after a repair. It's been many years since I've had to send a gun anywhere but in the past I've shipped several back to the factories for repair and had them returned to me using the USPS. I trust them more than the UPS 'cuz I once shipped a S&W pistol back for a defect and UPS "lost" it. You want to know what trouble is, just try getting something like that straightened out!

kyote · « **Reply #15 on:** March 19, 2006, 11:33:54 AM »

yes,it is against the law to ship firearms in the mail.any form of mail.unless you are a holder of an FFL and are shipping to another ffl holder.where there is an exception,is if you are sending the firearm to be repaired.and it is going to be shipped back to you.and it does not have to be repaired specificly.but can be shipped for other reasons.reblued,engraved,new wood are grips,ect.
I have had problems with all of the postal service/mail delivers.so I spent one day going to the postmaster/head supervisor ups and making several calls to be informed.and yes,there are employees of those organizations that would like you to take your firearms and shove em.But learn shove it up thiers.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** March 19, 2006, 12:04:56 PM »

Quote from: kyote

yes,it is against the law to ship firearms in the mail.any form of mail.unless you are a holder of an FFL and are shipping to another ffl holder......

kyote, I realize this is a handgun thread, but your statement is misleading. Long guns may be shipped in the mail by a non FFL, whether an FFL needs to be involved is an entirely separate matter and depends on the situation, whether there is a transfer of ownership or not. The USPS does not make that determination at the time of mailing, it's up to the individual to know whether or not he/she is complying with local, state or federal laws concerning shipping firearms.

Tim
USPS Retired

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52_print.htm

Quote

432 Mailability
432.1 General
The following conditions apply:
a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable in the domestic mail except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0.
b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0 or C024.2.0.
c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.2.0.
d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.
432.2 PS Form 1508
PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, must be completed by each firearm manufacturer or dealer who deposits firearms for mailing. The form must be filed with the postmaster of the post office of mailing.
Exhibit 432.1
Mailability Requirements for Firearms

Handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer or dealer, an authorized federal agent, or an authorized state, territory, or district agent ONLY when addressed to one of the following addressee categories for use in official duties:
Addressee Affidavit Requirements
a. Officer of Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, or organized reserve corps.
b. Officer of National Guard or militia of a state, district, or territory.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by commanding officer.
c. Officer of the federal government or a state, district, or territory whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
d. USPS employees specifically authorized by the chief postal inspector.
e. Officer or employee of a U.S. enforcement agency.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by head of agency employing the addressee.
f. Watchman engaged in guarding federal, state, district, or territory property.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by chief clerk of department, bureau, or branch of government agency employing the addressee.
g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of an agency employing officers and personnel included in c, d, or e above.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the head of agency stating the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee cited in c, d, or e of the opposite column.
Unloaded Handgun
Mailer must be licensed manufacturer or dealer mailing to another licensed manufacturer or dealer. Addressee is FBI (or it's director) or scientific lab or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers, or state, district, or territory officers authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment. Manufacturers or dealers must complete PS form 1508, Statement by Shipper of firearms, and file with postmaster.
Postmasters may forward an unsatisfactory mailer statement to their RCSC for a ruling.

Unloaded Rifle or Shotgun
Short-barrelled rifles or shotguns that can be concealed on a person are nonmailable.
Mailer must comply with Gun Control Act of 1968 and with the state and local laws. USPS may require mailer to open parcel or give written certification that weapon is unloaded and not concealable. Registered mail service is recommended.

Quote

433 Mailer Responsibility
Even though certain types of firearms are permitted to be mailed within the provisions of the postal law in 18 U.S.C. 1715, it is the mailer's responsibility to comply with all federal and state regulations and local ordinances affecting the movement of firearms.

434 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Mailers should be referred to the nearest regional ATF office for further advice. See 435 and Exhibit 435.

kyote · « **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2006, 02:54:26 PM »

it is the mailer's responsibility to comply with all federal and state regulations and local ordinances affecting the movement of firearms.

well,last time I talked with an atf agent.t I was told you could not.I beleieve you can take a long gun apart and mail it.and if it was brought to the attention of the atf.nothing would come of it. if it was a sporting/hunting rifle.

kyote · « **Reply #18 on:** March 19, 2006, 03:19:32 PM »

http://www.thegunzone.com/ship-guns.html

found this and thought it might help.as a moderator.you might want to put it some place else for easy ref.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** March 19, 2006, 04:23:57 PM »

I've seen that web site before, while it looks like a good reference, I prefer to use direct resources, IE: BATF, USPS, etc. instead of a 3rd party resource when it comes to a serious subject like shipping firearms where making a mistake could mean bad news for me, the old adage "Ignorance of the law is no excuse", comes to mind. As far as posting it as a permanent reference, I would leave that up to Graybeard's discretion.

Tim

kyote · « **Reply #20 on:** March 19, 2006, 04:35:50 PM »

I have thier lastest refrence manual at the home.(ATF)and one with all state laws.I will check in it on the subject.and let ya know what they say.But again that will be second hand info.as ya said..ignorance is no excuse.I take no chances with the passion I have for firearms and all that is related with it.