Author Topic: What is the best man stopper !! (Read 9040 times)

williamlayton · « **Reply #30 on:** April 21, 2003, 06:51:40 PM »

youse guys is to intent on bein serios--but guys i truely indeed saw a man stopper taday--things is poppin out all over---luv this warm wether

:-D :wink:

Savage · « **Reply #31 on:** April 22, 2003, 01:38:05 AM »

There are three colleges in my town. Man stoppers everywhere! I'm totaly defenseless. Thank goodness I had my parole officer with me when I went downtown yesterday!
Stay Safe,
Savage

Savage · « **Reply #32 on:** April 22, 2003, 03:30:33 AM »

Ck,
I'm surprised too! As widely used as the .40S&W is I'm sure there is a lot of data out there that hasn't been factored in yet. I like lots of data and stats but I'm not sure if they prove anything. I think the main thing is to carry what you have faith in and can shoot well. Everything else is beyond your control.
Stay Safe,
Savage

Zachary · « **Reply #33 on:** April 23, 2003, 05:01:17 AM »

The one that most easily get's rid of people who have nothing else better to do in life than spread profanity on the internet. :-D

:-D

roland · « **Reply #34 on:** May 10, 2003, 06:28:37 PM »

I voted for the 44 mag. to answer your question. But I wouldn't use it for a carry gun, I'd use one of my 45's. I just finished doing my own reaserch before signing on and was going to ask for a more indepth technical reponse. Heres something to look at: 9mm 115fmj 1100fps 309,260;9mm 124 fmj 1050 fps 304,268;38spl 125 sjhp 850fps 201,183; 357mag 125 sjhp 1200fps 400,326; 40s&w 155sjhp 1000fps 344,301; 40s&w 180sjhp 900fps 324,295;44mag 240sjhp 1300fps 900,754; 45acp 230fmj 800fps 327,304. Ok, first is the caliber, then the bullet weight and type, muzzel velocity(since I reload Igave the accurate velocities I use and would expect from other calibers, I don't have a 9mm or 40 s&w), the next two sets of numbers are the muzzel energy and the energy at 50yds(reasonable distance for comparison). It may look confusing, but clearly the 44 has the most energy and a sjhp will spend most of it in your target. Hey, have you ever shot a bowling pin off a table with a 357, 45 or a 44? Lots of fun and I'll tell you the 44 cleans em off as if you hit it with a baseball bat! I think the 357 tecknically comes in second, then the 45, but the 45 is mmf. I'd make it my second choice. Which brings me to my question to law enforcement and anyone else interested in the technical stuff. What is the minimum energy given for takeing out a target at close distances? I've only found info on deer and other big game. They say 900 ft-# is the minimum for taking deer size game, a buddy told me 750 ft-#. A little help in this issue would be appreciated.

roland · « **Reply #35 on:** May 11, 2003, 06:28:10 AM »

I figured out how to read the posts on page 2, good info on this page. After read those articles and further review I think the minimum energy needed is 300 ft-# at the distances of the target.

roland · « **Reply #36 on:** May 15, 2003, 06:03:39 AM »

upon further investigation, I found my suggestion may not be correct. It is something to look into on for penetration. Placement is the number one factor. I found a great site explaining technically what I was looking for, while doing a search, terminal ballistics, on aol. Here's the address:
http://www.mindspring.com/~ulfhere/ballistics/wounding.html
I had problems going directly to it so I did the search again. The title is Shooting Holes in Wounding Theories. Very good information for the hunter.

labsrule · « **Reply #37 on:** May 16, 2003, 09:22:33 AM »

Right or wrong, I'm not really sure... its just my choice for carry. Summer weight clothes expected I use a .357 Sig. Colder weather I'll switch to the .45 ACP. "If" its possible for clothing to plug a JHP and hold back expansion, then I'd rather start fat and heavy (not a freebee guys). My vote for stopping vs. killing power went to the .45 ACP.

AdkGuidesForHire · « **Reply #38 on:** June 06, 2003, 05:39:56 PM »

a claymore.

Dogshooter · « **Reply #39 on:** June 07, 2003, 03:45:46 AM »

Seems that the 45 is winnin out here. I second that motion. I think properly placed bullets in a lot of other calibers will stop just as well but for close range encounters, the 45 is very hard to beat. It has proven itself in some extremely hostile battle environments and that is enough proof of it'seffectivness to convince me that it is what I want to carry. I don't go out "hunting" for human targets and if I did, the 45 would not be my choice of weapon. For offensive man stopper weapons, I'd use a rifle or a shotgun. If you are attacked at close range by some drug crazed whacko with a knife, a 45 has a better chance of saving your bacon than a lot of other calibers. So, I carry one (especially when I go garage saleing) ( have you ever seen some guys trying to get to the hunting stuff first?

?? :wink: )

NM Brushpopper · « **Reply #40 on:** June 11, 2003, 05:44:48 PM »

Where is the .44 Special?

I guess I'll vote for the .45 Colt, father to the favored .45 ACP, lest we forget :eek: .

Old Griz · « **Reply #41 on:** June 18, 2003, 06:41:51 PM »

Someone mentioned that the .44 mag. would waste energy going right through the bad guy. True, but wouldn't it be a devastating hole? That's why it got my vote. However, my two favorite carry guns are a .45 ACP and a .357. I believe either would work.

1GLOCK · « **Reply #42 on:** June 20, 2003, 08:25:20 AM »

The more I read the more Im thinking that its not so much the caliber but the specific loads for that caliber and shot placement that are important. I mean really a 45 acp fmj at 800 fps would probably be no more effective than a 9mm +p HP at 1400fps. same thing with placement a shot in the chest with a 38spl is better than a shot in the arm with a 44 mag. really whats the point anyway? A 22Lr is better than throwing stones!!!

Old Griz · « **Reply #43 on:** June 20, 2003, 05:33:26 PM »

Of course, but this way we get to pontificate among friends and have fun!

Desperado357 · « **Reply #44 on:** June 25, 2003, 10:30:27 PM »

125 grain JHP is the KING of the ring

Desperado357 · « **Reply #45 on:** June 25, 2003, 10:33:41 PM »

oops i mean the 357 Magnum! (going by the real life majority statistics)

teamnelson · « **Reply #46 on:** June 26, 2003, 10:18:27 AM »

http://www.firearmstactical.com keeps up on the current FBI developments in wound ballistics, and has alot of good info. The .357 gets some high marks depending on which test set your looking at.

One may also consider the availability and use of body armor among thugs when considering the man to be stopped with one shot. Personally, I like anything that penetrates Level IIIA at 200 yds. or better, but the only choices are traditional pistol calibers.

broken arrow · « **Reply #47 on:** July 04, 2003, 10:30:57 AM »

I feel, and have felt this way for years that this whole question boils down to this: Any bullet that goes into or through the brain, medula oblongatta or heart will likely result in immediate incapacitaion. The real question is what will cause the most damage if it passes near one of these organs? My money is on the most mushroomed and malformed peice of lead with the greatest Kinetic energy. This results in a shockwave great enough that when it passes near an organ it passes with such force that it splits the organ, causing significant trauma. The bullet that comes to rest inside the objective is better than one that goes through the target like corn through a goose. Look at ballistic gelatin, the wound channel is usually greater the closer it gets to the resting bullet. After 15 years of law enforcement I have only learned one absolute truth regarding this whole topic. And that is: No matter what round you fire at any given crack dealer, They can be selling again in under eight weeks and running from the cops in 12. I think it depends a GREAT deal on Mindset. Take ".50 cent" for instance, shot 9 times and still spouts his racist, anti-social message. Mindset..........

KING · « **Reply #48 on:** July 06, 2003, 04:55:26 PM »

:-D Broken arrow...............we gotta teach someone to hit the correct area..............................One in the CNS is an instant stop any time. One in the heart or chest area,that is fatal...........will result in the perp still being a problem for up to 30 seconds..2 in the chest,2 in the head terminates every time.......no questions. :eek: :eek: Stay safe.................king

Savage · « **Reply #49 on:** July 12, 2003, 07:44:28 AM »

Right you are King! You have to shoot um to the ground, regardless of the caliber you're using. There is no magic caliber or bullet! The only given is, the more holes there are and the larger the hole the better. A small projectile MIGHT expand, but a large one will NEVER shrink! I have done a bit of testing over the years with a multitude of bullets in many calibers. I have found inconsianties in the performance of the same bullet fired into the same medium, enough to convince me that expansion is an iffy thing! The important thing is the permanent wound channel, and the location thereof. The sudden death by hydralic shock from a magic bullet at handgun velocities sells a lot of guns and ammo in inadequate calibers. Now, guess I'll stick my P-32 (stoked with super gollywob IQ's) in my pants and go to the post office.
Stay Safe,
Savage

waksupi · « **Reply #50 on:** July 15, 2003, 12:28:42 PM »

I carry a .45 ACP, as I shoot it well, and am comfortable with it.

As for the .44 magnum. A few years ago up here, there was a shooting on the other side of the lake. Both parties involved were real scumbags, so no real loss could occur. However, one shot the other at a range of about five feet. Six shots. .44 mag. In the chest. The guy lived!

v-man · « **Reply #51 on:** July 29, 2003, 02:02:36 PM »

I just found this thread and thought it was interesting. I have to say that I would be a bad person to ask. Not because of the fact that I have never shot anyone but because if I ever do we will never know what just one shot would have done.

pjh421 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 29, 2003, 08:57:42 PM »

These kinds of discussions are always entertaining. There are so many variables involved that it would be pretty hard to pin down a gun and cartridge combination that would reliably provide one shot stops. The .357 with its "high velocity" 125 grain bullet is popular but certainly doesn't always provide one shot stops.

You could kill some people by yelling BOO. Waksupi's guy at the lake...wow. I didn't think it could be done. Dude should have rushed out and bought a lottery ticket.

I would have to throw in with the heavy bullet crowd. I'd trust the .45 LC first, then the .44 Magnum. A guy with an entry wound and an exit wound is going to be bleeding out of both ends simultaneously, sucking in twice the amount of cold air. Anything that was in the way of that large chunk of hot lead as it traversed the body (assuming we're talking about shooting center of mass and not some John Wayne trick headshot) would be broken or torn.

That stuff about the bullet ideally stopping inside the target and not wasting energy by full penetration is a bunch of hooey. I want my first bullet to completely traverse the target, carrying as much gore and fluid out of the exit wound as possible, either by pressure or vacuum. Hypovolemic shock is a beautiful thing. Ever seen a sheep sucked out of a 2 inch hole through an APC? Not good for the sheep OR the APC.

Whoever said "start fat" is wise to believe that. At conventional handgun velocities, bullet expansion is utterly unreliable and you should not count on it. Start with a big bullet. If it expands, fine. If it doesn't, who cares? Its already nearly half an inch across anyway. I think, with all the things that could prevent a one shot stop going against you in a gunfight, you would be extremely fortunate to get one.

Paul

broken arrow · « **Reply #53 on:** August 02, 2003, 03:25:35 AM »

I think the .416 Rigby is an outstanding one-shot man stopper. The 12 ga. rifled slug fired from one of these little hand-held pistols would be my second choice. If those fail, I will trust my life to the weapon that transfers the greatest kinetik energy to my opponent. My trusty little 03 Crown Victoria. I like to think outside the box with the greatest liklihood of putting the bad guy in one. :-D

Mikey · « **Reply #54 on:** August 07, 2003, 04:31:09 AM »

Sorry Fellas, short of a 4000 pound Bronco at 60 miles an hour it has to be my sister. Ya'll may have read about her further down the forum line under 'Strange Things Seen in The Woods'. Mikey.

1GLOCK · « **Reply #55 on:** August 07, 2003, 08:07:53 AM »

I cant believe this is still going after almost 5 months!!! Pretty controversial subject ay.

KING · « **Reply #56 on:** August 07, 2003, 12:23:43 PM »

I suppose that I should give out this infomation,and I am sure that some may find some points of interest in it as well,also might give you something to think aboutafter all.....it all came from the real world of gunfights,,Many years ago(20) a large biker type took exception to a naracotics officer having the gall to arrest him for just having some..........duh..narcotics in his possession. To make a long story short,bad guy started shooting,and the good guys did also decide that it would be a good choice to use thiers weapons if they wanted to keep thier chances up of being able to retire. Range,6 to seven yards,bad guy took several (over 5) direct hits from a 12 ga with slugs and buckshot(all in the chest). He managed to keep his feet and keep returning fire until one good guy ended his party with a round to the base of the skull from over 20 yards(9mm). The firefight lasted a little under a minute,and thats a long time in anybodies book if they have been there before. I also have seen and talked to many shooters and E.R. docs.....the number one is the .357 with a 125 gr hp. That round in the chest is divastating to any soft tissue in its way,also the wound channel is so large that it does not close up well after the tissue expands from impact and then retracts. The more energy into the target,the better. A pass through is not a good thing,no matter what in a handgun caliber . It is interesting to note,that if the subject in Waksupi scenerio had been shot with a .22,he probably would not be alive to tell about it(.22 bounces around all over the place from hard tissue,bone,heavy muscle,making a very erratic wound chanel.........they just dont stop things very quickly(like bad guys) ). A large slug moving at moderate volicities ..pushes into the soft tissue,and keeps on going,making for a wound that closes rather quickly,also these large slugs might stay in the body cavity if they mushroom a little better..........sometimes. A lot of the time it is not the caliber of the weapon that they good guy is using,but the projectile that is being used. There is no magic bullet,a CNS hit is 100 percent a down and outer for the bad guy..........anything else..even a .44 mag is not going to do it if the bullet did not hit in the correct place.............Now,there are exceptions to everything ,this included. Any.......and I do mean any round that passes through will not transfer as much shock to the target/bad guy as one that will expand. Those shock waves(as in liquid,all mammals are 70 percent water )will tear,and upset organs,blood vessels etc. This also can shock the CNS system if close enough due to this shock wave(means bad guy drops). What do I carry....a 9mm.a .357,10mm,and sometimes a .45.all with hollow points..a mans chest is roughly 12 inches thick.a side view,slighty larger...........all will do the trick if shot placement is correct. A flesh wound(no primary organs hit or bones will still not take anyone off of thier feet.......even if hit with a .460 Weatherby (unless they THINK they are dead). That is why multiple hits in the chest and head at handgun fighting ranges(under 15 yrds) are needed stay safe....king sheeeese.now I gotta headache from all this typing.

:roll:

Dragoon · « **Reply #57 on:** August 11, 2003, 03:36:10 PM »

Well my CC gun is a .45 Colt. It's not the best rated stopper but I'm sure it will do the trick if the time ever comes.

I don't put a whole lot of faith in those statistics anyway. :-D

Here is a link for the curious:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

supermag 445 · « **Reply #58 on:** August 20, 2003, 07:49:00 PM »

For me I think my 445 supermag Dan Wesson with a 180 gr Jhp going about 2000 Fps. that would stop someone fast. At the faster speeds a bullet travels the faster the upset of the bullet and on target distruction.

Just my opinion
:grin:
Brian

texaseyes · « **Reply #59 on:** September 01, 2003, 12:05:56 PM »

Well, I was surprised the 40S&W got such a low rating and then read some of the posts here and it got some attention.
My expert told me very simply when I asked him what gun to buy and what to shoot in it.
I told him I wanted the gun for close range in the home and on the road. If I could get further than 20 yards from the bad guy I would just run.
He said a 40caliberS&W 180 grain with all the lead in the pencil was the ticket. Approx 6 inch penetration, lots of velocity and lots of lead. Sounded simple to me.
He backed it up by saying the 40 was designed after the military 45 sidearm. Who would know more about stopping men at close range than the people who do it for a living and in great numbers?
Made perfect sense.

Poll

What is the best one shot man stopper ?

Author Topic: What is the best man stopper !! (Read 9040 times)