Author Topic: 7.62X54R (Read 837 times)

jack19512 · « **on:** February 04, 2006, 07:06:14 PM »

I just ordered my dies and brass for the 7.62X54. Anyone else reload for this caliber and want to share some reloading info and advice?

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2006, 01:20:36 AM »

Jack,
I just started with my Mosin this summer, and I got great results with Varget and Hornadys 150 grain SST. I'm still working up the load to get the velocity up, but so far, great accuracy. I haven't used it on game yet, though.

MH

jack19512 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2006, 06:50:44 AM »

Maryland Hunter

Thanks for the info.

Robert357 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2006, 03:35:14 PM »

I have an 1939 MN 1891/30 manufactrured in the Tula factory.

My pet loads for the 7.62x54R..........(work up all loads to make sure they are safe for your rifle):

Cast Lead Bullet Loads

175 grain gas checked......33.6 grains fo H-4895
155 grain gas checked.....15.4 grains Alliant 2400

Jacketed Bullet Loads

174 grain Hornaday .312 Round nose or 180 grain .311 Remington CoreLokt Bullet 41.8 grains H-4895. Also 44.2 grains H-4895.

125 grain Remington. .310 bullets with 50.0 grains of H-4895.

Heavy Future Jacketed load

I just loaded up some 215 grain Woodleigh 215 grain bullets with H-4831 from 50.0 to 54.2 grains, but haven't shot them yet to see what works best for this heavy bullet. I wanted something to be a bit more of a moose/elk buster.

All of the above use Winchester Large Rifle Primers

jack19512 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2006, 12:24:27 AM »

Robert357

I noticed you used several different diameter bullets, 310, 311, and 312. I just recently got into reloading and excuse me if I am asking a dumb question but is it common to use different size bullets in the same rifle?

Robert357 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2006, 10:11:36 AM »

Quote from: jack19512

Robert357 - is it common to use different size bullets in the same rifle?

It is not common if you can find a proper sized bullet. Unfortunately the 7.62x54R does has a lot of variation in the rifles that shoot it and not many bullet manufacturers who produce bullets just for this round.

Especially on military surplus rifles you should slug the bore of your rifle with a lead fishweight or a cast lead bullet slightly larger than the bore size. My MN has about a .311 bore. Some that have been well shot have slightly larger and some Finnish reworks have .308 bores from what I understand.

(see the following site for a suggestion on how to slug your bore)
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reloading/slug/index.asp

A .308 diameter (.30 caliber) bullet is very common. However for the Russian MN (and SKS) rifles finding a proper sized bullet is sometimes difficult.

Many Russian rifles (MN's & SKS's) have a nominal .310 bore. There are some jacketed bullets available in this diameter. There are principally in the 100 to 125 grain range (there are some 150 and 180 grain .310 bullets). Alot of the MN's were shot exensively and have larger bores prior to the re-arsenal work that was done on them.

I have used a micrometer to check on the diamter of pullet 7.62x54R bullets Warsaw-block milsurp bullets and found that the max diameter on many is .310 except for a small band near the base that is .311---go figure.

Some bullet manufactures produce jacketed bullets for the .303 Brit round. These are usually .311, or .3115. There are a lot of "well used" military surplus 303 Brit rifles out there and some bullet manufacturers sell .312 jacketed bullets to meet this need.

There are other rifles like the 7.7x58 Japanese Arisaka and the Argentine 7.65x53 and the Winchester 32-20 that require bullets of .311 to .312 diameter depending upon who you talk to. The 32 Auto (or ACP) pistol round also is about .311 to .312 diameter bullet, (but is generally found in jacketed bullet weights of 60 to 80 gr).

The difference between a jacketed bullet of .311 and .312 is such that you probably will not see any difference in accuracy from a given rifle. You might see a loss of accuracy is you tried to shoot .308 bullets in a .311 or .312 bore. Personally, I have run some experiments with my MN 1891/30 using identifcal powder loads and similar bullets in .308 and .311 diameters and found no noticeable difference in group size at 100 yards with iron sights. However I still try to buy bullets that are close to the proper size.

I can also interchanges with the same powder load in my MN1891/30 174 grain .312 bullets and 180 grain .311 bullets and see not differnce in group size at 100 yards with iron sights.

I have shot 32 ACP out of a .308 bore and it works. I just would not want to do it alot because of barrel wear and copper fouling.

Using either .310, .311, .3115 or .312 bullets in a 7.62x54 R is considered acceptable by most folks as long as the accuracy is OK and if the bore is a well used Russian MN, it probably is just fine.

Now cast bullets is another matter, but there you need to size the bullet to just slightly more than the max bore size.

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2006, 11:33:10 AM »

My Mosin Nagant is Finnish, Tikka arsenal, and it slugged out to .3095".
.308 bullets worked great for me.

MH

Robert357 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2006, 02:47:54 PM »

Quote from: Robert357

Especially on military surplus rifles you should slug the bore of your rifle with a lead fishweight or a cast lead bullet slightly larger than the bore size. My MN has about a .311 bore. Some that have been well shot have slightly larger and some Finnish reworks have .308 bores from what I understand.

I don't own any Finnish MN's, so I can't speak from personal experience.

Maryland Hunter, I guess I stand corrected. Yours is .3095.

I would also expect a true .310 bullet would work OK in your rifle.

The variation in rifling is pretty amazing.

As I have said in my post, .308 bullets seem to work acceptably in my MN 1891/30, but I still buy the larger bullets anyway.

warf73 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2006, 09:05:19 PM »

I've had my best accuracy with Rem. .311 round nose bullets, graft brass, Winny primmer, with H-4895.

I didn't slug my barrel but did use a very mild load of H-4895 and used:
.308 Rem. Cor lok
.311 Rem Cor lok

With iron sites at 100yards .311" bullets shot groups half the size of the .308" bullet.

Warf

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2006, 10:40:02 AM »

Robert357,
Didn't mean to correct you, just letting know the size that I was referring to in my first post. Great post of yours, BTW, very informative. You are more than correct on the bore variation of the Nagants. Very confusing when I first got mine. The guy I bought it from gave me a load of surplus 310" rounds, but he could never get the accuracy with them. .308" must have been the magic number for mine. Thanks again for the info.

MH

Robert357 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2006, 11:56:23 AM »

Maryland Hunter.

No problem! I like doing modest experimenting with my reloading and the MN 7.62x54R allows me to try all kinds of combinations that most of my other rifles don't allow for. Bullet diameter is especially interesting.

I have wanted a Finnish MN and looked at one that was for sale at a local pawn shop for $79, but the shop thought it was a Russian rifle. It had a really fuzzy bore even after a couple of patches were run thought it, so I passed on it.

One of the things I forgot to warn the person who started this thread was that depending on whose full length resizing die he ordered, the neck expander plug may be a .308 expander.

I know that with my Lee full length resizing die set, I needed to use my .310 depriming/expander plug from by 7.62x39 Lee die set. Others I know have ordered the deprimer/expander plug for the .303 Brit and inserted it in their 7.62x54R resizing die.

This is an issue only if you use larger than .308 bullets.

jack19512 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2006, 03:42:55 PM »

Posted by Robert357

"One of the things I forgot to warn the person who started this thread was that depending on whose full length resizing die he ordered, the neck expander plug may be a .308 expander."

Thanks, I never thought of that. I ordered the Lee dies. I tried to slug my first bore tonight. It didn't go too well. I got the lead sinker about an inch into the bore, couldn't drive it any further in and couldn't drive it back out.

I finally had to drill the center of the sinker out in larger sizes step by step until I finally was able to get the sinker out in pieces. I might have to go to plan B. :-)

Robert357 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2006, 05:36:16 AM »

Quote from: jack19512

I got the lead sinker about an inch into the bore, couldn't drive it any further in and couldn't drive it back out.

If like many many MN rifles, yours is "counterbored" you will need to slug the barrel from the breach end and not the muzzel end.

Counterbored rifles are rifles where ususally the rifling near the muzzle is worn out and to improve accuracy they bore is drilled to a depth of one or two inches just big enough to remove the rifling and let the bullet pass through unobstructed after it is fired. This effectively give you "good rifling" at the point the bullet leaves the rifling.

However, from the muzzel end, it gives you a "shelf" that will hang up your piece of lead that you are trying to slug.

Other things you might try include using lots of good lube, a smaller sinker or softer piece of lead (get some of the easy to bend lead pencil-like lead used in some fishing and just deform it so it starts out larger than your bore diameter). I have used soft lead fishing sinkers and even 38 caliber soft cast lead bullets to slug 30 caliber rifles. At a gunshow I ultimately bought some soft cast lead 32-40 bullets in .315 diameter that are just about perfect for slugging 30 caliber bores.

Robert357 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2006, 05:54:52 AM »

Quote from: jack19512

I got the lead sinker about an inch into the bore, couldn't drive it any further in and couldn't drive it back out.

If like many many MN rifles, yours is "counterbored" you will need to slug the barrel from the breach end and not the muzzel end.

Counterbored rifles are rifles where ususally the rifling near the muzzle is worn out and to improve accuracy they bore is drilled to a depth of one or two inches just big enough to remove the rifling and let the bullet pass through unobstructed after it is fired. This effectively give you "good rifling" at the point the bullet leaves the rifling.

However, from the muzzel end, it gives you a "shelf" that will hang up your piece of lead that you are trying to slug.

Other things you might try include using lots of good lube, a smaller sinker or softer piece of lead (get some of the easy to bend lead pencil-like lead used in some fishing and just deform it so it starts out larger than your bore diameter). I have used soft lead fishing sinkers and even 38 caliber soft cast lead bullets to slug 30 caliber rifles. At a gunshow I ultimately bought some soft cast lead 32-40 bullets in .315 diameter that are just about perfect for slugging 30 caliber bores.

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2006, 12:26:24 PM »

Jack,
I have heard that if you contact Lee, they will make you a larger expander, probably for next to nothing. Try this site out, it has a lot of info for you: http://7.62x54r.net/
Hope this helps.

MH

jack19512 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2006, 02:01:57 PM »

Thanks to everyone for the info. Let me ask a simple question. I have been told that you can use a bullet as big as .311 safely in the Mosin Nagant 7.62X54.

What if I took some .308, some .310, and some .311 diameter bullets and loaded them up using minimum load and just tried them for accuracy to see which shot the best.

stiff neck · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2006, 07:05:30 AM »

My MN 91/30 loves S&B 174gr BTHP ammo. I'm pretty sure that S&B uses a Speer 174gr BTHP bullet, that's the only manufacturer that makes them far as I can tell. They're .311" so I guess when I start reloading x54 I'll try those first.

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2006, 09:48:20 AM »

Jack,

I still think that the safest way is to slug the bore first, then go to that size.
The link that I gave you will have directions on it for slugging, and will have a chart in it somewhere that will show groove diameter and bullet size for your particular rifle. You need to look at the various marks and date on your gun, and do a little research, but the info's there. I'm sure that Robert357 will respond to this, and he seems very knowledgable about the Mosins, but I wouldn't think that the excessive pressure from a too large bullet wouldn't be a great idea. You might get by with one size too big, but I wouldn't want to pull the trigger, not knowing what would happen, on the next size. I'd play it safe and look for the info and slug the barrel. Just my opinion. Good luck.

MH