Question about recoil.

[Bamasnyper]

This is my third try to post this, and it gets shorter each time. How does the recoil of the following calibers compare to each other: .35 Rem., .35 Whelan(?), .444 Mar., and 45-70? Also, as a reference for me, how does the recoil of these compare with a .300 Win. mag and a 12 Ga. 3 in. turkey load since these are the heaviest kickers I own? I am thinking of buying one of these as a "brush" gun but don't want something that will beat me to death.

[victorcharlie]

This is my second time to respond.  Wonder what's up?

Here is a very informative post in the bolt action rifle section regarding recoil:  http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=85337

The .35 remington, while wearing hunting cloths has very little if any noticable recoil using factory coreloct 200 grain cartridges.  This is a great old cartridge that's been around nearly as long as the 45.70.  The 200 grain load is what the legend was built around and the remington coreloct is about as fine a bullet as the .35 can shoot.  Handloaders can get a small increase in performance but I really don't see the need for my type hunting.

The 45.70, has a diverse selection of loads from mild to wild........

Lead cowboy loads which some use for deer are very mild in the recoil dept.

The 405 grain coreloct's are tolerable but when shooting from the bench can bruise a fellow after a dozen or so rounds if the gun isn't mounted right.  This is the load custer used at the little big horn....with a lead bullet and black powder of course......It's still not for wimps....(no disrespect intended).  If your not used to some recoil, even this mild loading can be a problem for some.

I've installed a limbsaver pad on my 1895 and this really tamed the recoil.  Mercury tubes, although I haven't tried them, were highly thought of by the late "Lawdog".....and he said they worked well.  I think Redhawk has tried them and finds them good as well........

The 300 grain HP coreloct at 1800 fps, a factory load has even more recoil.  I like this load and it shoots well in my 1895..according to the above recoil table this load is close to a 300 win mag.......to me, it still isn't as quick a whack as the .300

Then we move to the PMC 350 grain hornidy HA, or +P+.  These are pretty hot......2125 fps and 3000 flbs of energy.....these thump pretty hard.....recoil moves from a slower push to a crisp whack........They shoot great in my gun but are really way more than I need for deer hunting.  This load will whack every bit as hard and is just as quick as any 300 mag I've fired.

Then ya got the garretts, and bear claws.......people have killed the african big five with this stuff........haven't fired any personally but my bet is the recoil is just short of a .459 win mag......

It's a beautiful thing the 45.70.........load her down and  play........load her up to meet the needs of any north american hunter.......or any where in between.

.450 marlin and .444 I have no experience with......but .450 pressures are up there with the 45.70 +P+ and there are no mild factory loads that I've heard of.......

The 444 factory loads are a little more limited than the 45.70 but if you hand load it would probably make a very good rifle.

Remember though.....ask 10 guys about recoil and you'll probably get 10 different answers......If your in N. Bama PM me and I'll let you try both rifles.....you buy the cartridges your interested in of course......

I started the deer season with the 45.70 but switched to the .35 remington after the first day as the Marlin 336 I have carries no scope and is a little lighter and a little quicker pointing than the 45.70......it carries better through the thick stuff IMO

Really, for short range east coast style hunting it's hard to beat the .35 all things considered.  Hope this answers your questions......

[Ratltrap]

Maybe you have a different idea, but to me a brush gun is one I can carry all day in the edges and has enough thump for whatever is in those edges.  So if that's what we're talking about it means always compact, short, and light - and only sometimes powerful.  The light part is as important in beating you up as the powerful part is.  Truth is, in the field it probably won't matter much what the recoil of any of these is and at the bench there are lots of tricks to manage recoil, so if you can comfortably carry a 9 lb rifle all day and want the most power and versatility per ft lb of recoil, get a Ruger in 35 Whelen.  If you don't want to carry that much weight all day, but want some power get a levergun in 45-70 or  444.  Of course, as the previous poster says, you can load the 45-70 (and I'll add the 444) to beat you up or not, depending on what you want it to do.  If you want the least weight to carry and aren't after dangerous game get a levergun in 35 Rem.

It's tough to compare felt recoil of these given the difference in projectile weights and probably gun weights.  Your 300 WM firing a 180 gr. bullet at 2900 fps in a 9 lb rifle is probably equivalent to a 7.5 lb 45-70 firing a 300 gr. bullet at 1800 fps, or a 7.5 lb 444 firing a 240 gr. bullet at 2350 fps, or a 8 lb 35 Whelen firing a 200 grain bullet at 2700 fps.  The 7.5 lb shotgun shooting 1 3/8 oz at 1200 fps is probably equal to any of them.  The 35 rem isn't even in the same ballpark, something like a trap load in your shotgun.

I will suggest that the 35 rem is not a brown bear stopper or a safari rifle.  Also, I'm biased toward leverguns in the brush, so the Whelen wouldn't be my top choice (although I have one and have used it for brush work many times).  Other than that any of these will probably do what you want.

[Bamasnyper]

Thanks for your responses, they were very helpful!

[dla]

The Marlin guide gun, because of it's light weight, terrible fit, and my armor-plated Grizzly loads, is the hardest kicking firearm I've ever shouldered.

About 2000 rounds later I can handle the guide gun just fine. All other rifles and shotguns no longer have recoil, from what I can tell

[KENTDEP]

The Marlin guide gun, because of it's light weight, terrible fit, and my armor-plated Grizzly loads, is the hardest kicking firearm I've ever shouldered.

About 2000 rounds later I can handle the guide gun just fine. All other rifles and shotguns no longer have recoil, from what I can tell

I would agree with this 100% If you can shoot a 400 grain bullet at around 2000fps out of a unaltered (stock recoil pad) you can shoot anything IMHO. I shoot 3inch magnum slugs in my 870 and they are nothing like the wild .45-70 elephant rounds.

Jay

[Ranger J]

I can only comment about the 45/70.  Shooting trapdoor (light) 300g loads in my Handi Rifle the recoil is no worse than shooting 150g loads in my 308 barrel on the same gun.  When I load the 45/70 up to ‘Marlin” (medium) loads it starts to get your attention.  Here in Missouri where shots are usually 100yards or under the trapdoor load is all you need.  That is unless you’re still young and trying to prove how tough you are.    Thank God I’m past that stage in life. :wink:
RJ