Author Topic: Cheney shoots hunting partner  (Read 3240 times)

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Offline jh45gun

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2006, 08:36:01 PM »
I tried adding to the above post but the site is acting up I keep getting the server is down message. Anyway I also want to add that I have seen bullets ricochete at a established rifle range off the berm where either the ground was frozen or the bullet hit a rock ect and it went to the rail yards a fairly long distance away. Now shooting at a berm should be the safest thing going but in several cases that was not the case. In other cases folks have been shot by ricocheting bullets that hit trees or the ground or rocks ect and traveled distances that the shooter did not intend to happen. You read about this every several years and so what is it guys a accident or unsafe gun handleing? If you say unsafe gun handleing than no one should shoot a rifle in the woods or in the field as they cannot completely guarantee where that bullet will end up.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Danegeld

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2006, 02:21:53 AM »
I actually feel uncomfortable when hunting with guys I'm not familiar with.  I have only two hunting buddies and we are aware of how the other guy reacts to flushing birds.

When I deer/elk/lope hunt I do it alone.

Take Care
Ben

Offline june6th1944

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2006, 05:39:16 AM »
This is off the Texas Parks and Wildlife website.  Note #3, Whittington was actually in front of Cheney when he was shot, according to the witnesses!  This is the fifth most visited page on the TPWD site as of 2/14/2006.


Shooting Safety Rules
Rules Hunters Can Live By . . . Ten Commandments of Shooting Safety

   1. Always point the muzzle in a safe direction.
      Control the direction of the muzzle at all times. Do not point a firearm or bow at anything you do not intend to shoot. Never rest a muzzle on your toe or foot. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard until the instant you are ready to fire. Always keep the safety on until ready to fire; however, the safety should never be a substitute for safe firearm handling.
   2.  Treat every firearm or bow with the same respect you would show a loaded gun or nocked arrow.
      Every time you pick up a firearm, the first thing you do is point the muzzle in a safe direction and check to see if it is loaded. Be sure the chamber and magazine are empty and that the action is open until ready to be fired. If you do not understand how to determine if it is loaded, do not accept the firearm until someone has safely shown you that it is unloaded. Read your instruction manual carefully before you handle new firearms or bows.
   3.  Be sure of your target and what is in front of and beyond your target.
      Before you pull the trigger you must properly identify game animals. Until your target is fully visible and in good light, do not even raise your scope to see it. Use binoculars! Know what is in front of and behind your target. Determine that you have a safe backstop or background. Since you do not know what is on the other side, never take a shot at any animals on top of ridges or hillsides. Know how far bullets, arrows and pellets can travel. Never shoot at flat, hard surfaces, such as water, rocks or steel because of ricochets.
   4.  Unload firearms and unstring conventional bows when not in use.
      Leave actions open, and store sporting arms in cases when traveling to and from shooting areas. Take bolts out or break down shotguns if necessary. Know how your equipment operates. Store and transport firearms and ammunition separately and under lock and key. Store firearms and bows in cool, dry places. Use gun or trigger locks and guards when not in use.
   5.  Handle the firearms, arrows and ammunition carefully.
      Avoid horseplay with firearms. Never climb a fence, a tree or a ladder with a loaded firearm or bow and arrows. Never jump a ditch or cross difficult terrain with a loaded firearm or nocked arrow. Never face or look down the barrel from the muzzle end. Be sure the only ammunition you carry correctly matches the gauge or caliber you are shooting. Always carry arrows in a protected cover or quiver. Learn the proper carries. Try to use the two-hand carry whenever possible because it affords you the best muzzle control. Always carry handguns with hammers over an empty chamber or cylinder. If you fall, be sure to disassemble the gun and check the barrel from the breech end for obstructions. Carry a field cleaning kit.
   6.  Know your safe zone-of-fire and stick to it.
      Your safe zone-of-fire is that area or direction in which you can safely fire a shot. It is "down range" at a shooting facility. In the field it is that mental image you draw in your mind with every step you take. Be sure you know where your companions are at all times. Never swing your gun or bow out of your safe zone-of-fire. Know the safe carries when there are persons to your sides, in front of, or behind you. If in doubt, never take a shot. When hunting, wear daylight fluorescent orange so you can be seen from a distance or in heavy cover.
   7. Control your emotions when it comes to safety.
      If you lose control of your emotions you may do something carelessly. If you have just shot a target or animal you probably will be excited. At that moment you may turn with a loaded firearm back towards your friends or you might run with a loaded firearm towards a downed animal with the gun safety off. You or someone else may be in danger once you lose control of your emotions. Show discipline. Rehearse in your mind what the safe actions will be. Do not allow your daydreams to prelace good judment. Show restraint and pass up shots which have the slightest chance of being unsafe.
   8.  Wear hearing and eye protection.
      While shooting at the range, you must wear hearing and eye protection at all times. Firearms are loud and can create noises which are damaging to a person's hearing. It can be a gradual loss of hearing due to outbursts of noise over many years. The damage could also be immediate, especially if your ears are next to a muzzle blast. Vibrations from the blast are enough to create loss of hearing. Wear glasses to protect your eyes from escaping gases, burnt powder (especially in blackpowder shooting), and other debris.
   9.  Don't drink alcohol or take drugs before or while handling firearms or bow and arrows.
      Alcohol and drugs impair normal physical and mental body functions and mustn't be used before or while handling firearms or archery equipment. These substances affect emotions, making it easier to lose control.
  10. Be aware of additional circumstances which require added caution or safety awareness.
      Just because something isn't listed under these "ten commandments of shooting safety" doesn't mean you can ignore it if it is dangerous. There may be rules such as in muzzleloading or archery or posted at a shooting range which should also be followed. Also, practice reloading safety by following and reading all specific instructions. Practice all commandments of shooting safety. Ensure a safe future for you, others and the shooting sports!

Offline jh45gun

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2006, 06:33:59 AM »
Thats interesting as every news report I read said that the guy was behind Cheneys group so if he was in front put it in print and your source please.   I typed what I said above late last night and was tired so not sure how well clear I made it but the bottom line of what I was trying to say was no matter how inprobable a bullet can still do some strange things once it leaves the barrel which you have no control over no matter how safe you are. Maybe 98% of the time that bullet will go where you want it to or figure it will go. but even at that 2% may go somewhere else where your not sure of. Even 22LR bullets may ricochete and go far distances. You may think improbable yea most cases your right but it only takes one strange quirk to make it a accident which according to you guys safe gun owners never have. Wanna bet?
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline june6th1944

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2006, 07:12:48 AM »
The articles I've read said he was in front of him, others have said he was behind him.  The 3D rendering that was created showed that Whittington was in front of him.  Take your pick.  Does it really matter?  Cheney is the one who pulled the trigger and someone got shot.  I don't think that fact has been disputed by anyone.

I was at a gun show here in North Texas in October and one of the vendors mistakenly shot a revolver at his booth--no one was injured, luckily, except the carpeting.  You never know what's going to happen.  A bowhunter coworker was shot by a squirrel hunter a few years ago (obviously didn't identify the target)--blew him out of the tree.  He carries shot in his chest as Whittington will.  The shooter apparently went into some kind of mental shock and became incoherent and practically catatonic at the scene.  Luckily, the coworker had some friends with him that arrived within minutes.

Offline jh45gun

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2006, 07:23:08 AM »
Yea I think we all can agree that the final blame goes to Cheney as he pulled the trigger. I am not disputing that. I will say if the guy was behind Cheney at all he should have said something as others have stated. I have done that while in the woods and had a other hunter set up near me. Most of the time I just left for other places but I let the guy know I was there before I moved too. It just makes sense to protect your self by making others aware of your position. I posted the posts on the bullets traveling elsewhere because those who said that a safe gun owner can never have a accident are wrong. Does not matter how safe you are accidents can happen to anyone. Being a safe gun handler cuts your risk factor of having a accident down to tremendously but they still could happen.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline june6th1944

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2006, 07:49:24 AM »
I believe that if you are around firearms enough, you are going to increase your odds of an accident.  It's a statistical probability.  You are increasing your odds of an accident--that doesn't mean you are going to have one, BUT you could.  Following some safe practices, which are posted everywhere, decrease the chances of shooting someone.

If you keep your muzzle pointed away from people and have an accident, such as "I didn't know it was loaded," at least you've had an accident without shooting anyone.  You may have crapped your pants, but at least no one loses their eye or a limb.

As I write this an elementary school memory got jogged loose.  I think I was in the sixth grade when it happened.  A classmate was shot by a shotgun at his house--kids playing with guns.  He lost an entire arm--the blast hit his shoulder.  When he came back to school, he had a hook.  As an adult now, I think how his future changed.  He was a pretty poor kid, all of us were, so he had that and his lost arm to overcome.  I'm not trying to be too sobering, just a memory that hit me just now related to firearms safety.

Offline jh45gun

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2006, 10:23:50 AM »
I agree with you completely. What I was stateing to the folks that claim accidents never happen to SAFE gun handlers is just wrong it can happen and as far as I am concerned that may make them more dangerous than some one who maybe has had a near mishap or accident and knows it can happen.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Nightrain52

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2006, 12:04:40 PM »
They interveiwed the guide yesterday and he made the statement he had been peppered 5 or 6 times and his dogs more had been peppered too. Said it sure wasn't much fun. I'm glad I don't bird hunt. :shock:
FREEDOM IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR-ARE YOU WILLING TO DIE FOR IT--------IT'S HARD TO SOAR LIKE AN EAGLE WHEN YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY TURKEYS

Offline Land_Owner

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2006, 01:49:34 PM »
Doc! Doc!  I shot my hunting partner!  It happened so quick.  One instant he wasn't there, the next instant he was.  Doc, how's he doing?

He would have had a better chance if you hadn't gutted him first...

Offline Keith L

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2006, 02:13:52 PM »
I never loaded for a 28 gage, and read yesterday that the man was shot with 300 pellets of number 8 shot from a 28 gage.  That seems like quite a few from that small a shotgun.  

They also said that the victim was 30 yards away.  Thats 90 feet, and I would think that most of the power from a 28 gage would be gone by then.  But then again if shooting from the 15 yard line at trap most birds would be at least 30 yards out when broken I suppose.

It is sad that this happened.  Articles clipped by my anti hunting co-workers are landing on my desk.  I have been on the road all week but my administrative person tells me the pile is getting deep.  I just heard the claim that drinking was involved.  I hope that isn't true.
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Offline Leatherstocking

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2006, 03:32:40 PM »
Quote
Unless your bullet hits the animal you shoot at and stays in the animal chances are you have no darn idea exactly where your bullet is going to wind up at. Now I realize that a shotgun is a close up matter and you should be able to see line of sight but for arguements sake all you guys that are preaching about gun safety has made a shot that you had no idea where the bullet would wind up. If you say you have not and do any kind of rifle hunting at all then I will call you a liar.


Wow, that's some scary words! It is true that unexpected things can happen when a bullet is shot, (ie. ricochet) and equally true that a bullet may go through an animal. But it is the responsibility of the guy pulling the trigger to do everything he can to ensure that the bullet (or birdshot) will travel safely. I have passed up shots at several deer when I saw nothing but air behind them, not knowing where my slug would land if I missed or it went through them. If you have "no idea where the bullet will land" you simply don't shoot. There can be no exceptions to that rule.
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Offline jh45gun

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2006, 03:39:13 PM »
For the most part guys shooting can figure out they are going to be safe but I still maintain you absolutely do not know where that bullet may end up unless you find it in the animal. Chances are if it goes out the animal it is not going to go to far but a ricochete who knows?
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Johnny Reb

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2006, 04:45:44 PM »
It was unfortunate, but I'd rather hunt with Dick Cheney than ride with Ted Kennedy!
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Not fooled by the liberal media

Offline Nightrain52

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2006, 05:06:25 PM »
The really sad part of it is if this would have happened to the average Joe and his friend there might have been a couple of paragraphs in the local paper and it would have been over with. The more I see of the media's handling of this and the Democrats thumping their chest the more I am beginning to hate it. Both political parties are an embarrasment to the poeple they serve. :?  :(  :evil:
FREEDOM IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR-ARE YOU WILLING TO DIE FOR IT--------IT'S HARD TO SOAR LIKE AN EAGLE WHEN YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY TURKEYS

Offline Keith L

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2006, 06:01:58 PM »
Quote
The really sad part of it is if this would have happened to the average Joe and his friend there might have been a couple of paragraphs in the local paper and it would have been over with.


Either that or he would have wound up in jail with a load of troublen his hands depending on the county DA.
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Offline GregP42

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2006, 10:07:32 PM »
Lets see if I can figure out haw to get this picture in here right, but it about sums up how I feel on the matter.


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Offline jh45gun

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2006, 07:00:25 AM »
Keith I love WI I do not think I would want to live anywhere else. I did live in WA for a year and they have a whole different out look than the folks do in WI as far as shooting some one goes and I would guess other states are all different some more forgiving than others. Now from what I have seen you shoot some one in WI  accident or because you had to to protect your life you better get a damn good lawyer and have Jesus  on your shoulder because your going to need them. If we ever get CC in WI I am sure the laws will change and we in WI can have a right to protect our selves. As I see it now you do bodily harm to some one they jail you and let the court decide wether your justified or not. Accidents get investigated just as tough. Why do you think Doyle keeps vetoing the CC law because he was the AG of WI and he thinks no one should own a gun. Not sure how Cheney would have faired if that accident would have been in WI but I bet he would have gotten more grief over it by the officials than need be.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Keith L

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2006, 11:28:00 AM »
I don't think Wisconsin is the only place a hunting accident would land someone in trouble.  I doubt the concealed cary law would have made much difference to Wisconsin's DA's since they were against the law.  One of the provisions of the law was that the gun safety course needed two hours of training on laws and what can happen to people who shoot someone in defense.

It is hard to find humor in this, but today someone told me that Chaney's public opinion rating went up when people found out he shot a lawyer.  Just crazy enough to be true.
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Offline jh45gun

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Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2006, 02:51:27 PM »
Yea that would not supprise me at all. I did not find any humor in it, but the comics on TV had a field day from what  I have read on the net. Seems like nothing is sacred anymore when it comes to what ever they can joke about.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline BirdHunter94

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Re: Cheney shoots hunting partner
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2008, 02:26:49 PM »
I agree with Leatherstocking   :)   ------>If you have "no idea where the bullet will land" you simply don't shoot. There can be no exceptions to that rule.
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We abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect. - Aldo Leopold.