A deer load for the .243 /field experience only not theory !

[rickt300]

"Neither moved astep after the shot" sounds like premium bullet performance to me. I had very good results using Remingtons 80 grain PSP which is a bit more likely to hold together than the 85 grain HPBT from Sierra though I like it too.

[handirifle]

 I have called most of the major bullet makers since beginning this thred and almost all, Hornady,Sierra,Speer recommend the lighter bullets in .243 for deer. so long as they don't have a boattail design(speer) Just don't hit a shoulder or ham. Sierra was very emphatic about their 85 grn gameking as a great bullet for deer. I'm still experementing as to accuracy and vel.

Country boy

I'm curious about this statement, since, to my knowledge, the Sierra 85gr Gameking IS a boattail hollow point bullet.  BTW I've had them recommend that bullet to me for deer as well.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=374787

I've used them on coyotes and they ARE effective.

[Country Boy]

Speer told me their 85 worked fine but a botail s core will silp it's jacket more easily as it base is tappered. I talked to another speer guy later and he said their 90 grn bullet was outstanding for deer. as it could be driven almost as fast and held togather better. I haven't got any to try yet for accuracy. But their .85's shoot little tiny groups. As I said in my last post 4 deer were taken with Remington 100 grn cor lock and results were excellent, they also shoit good in my rifle.

[Don Fischer]

Well have to get in again. I don't understand why a boattail would be more prone to core/jacket seperation than a solid base. When the bullet hit's, the force is going to the rear of the bullet. That forces the core back in the cup, not forward. Something would have to somehow grab ahold of the jacket to allow the core to slip. The core will slow faster than the jacket but, it's the core that is taking all the brunt of the impact and slowing down faster, the jacket is following along for the ride. In the photo's I've seen of the sectioned Nosler boat tails, seem's to me the boattail part was solid jacket material. What I could believe is that origionally the boat tail design was supposed to inhance long range shooting, a fact that later was found to be some range well beyond the normal game ranges. But it was kept in some match bullets and in varmit bullets for what ever reason you may choose to believe. But those bullets were designed to function much differently than hunting bullets. Today we see a good many boat tail design's and again I thing it's mostly a sales thing. There are a good many people that don't seem to believe that a less than 300 or 400 yd shot on deer, antelope even elk are possible in some places. Then it is felt that you must be ready for the 400yd shot and the boattail steps up to claim it's balistic superiority, at 400yds it's superiority would be tuff to measure.

I think that the truth of bullet's is that any bullet that disrupts the vital organs sufficently, will kill the animal. We seem to glorify the "bang flop but premium and non premiun bullets are not what produce it, the animals physical state and the shot placement with a bullet that makes the trip is what does. We've read that many times here, one guy witnesses that a 100gr Partition doesn't seem to kill that fast, another does. One group claims 100gr bullets are needed another say's an 80 to 87gr. All were right for the deer they saw shot at those times. But in the end, I think the bullet should be able to reach the vitals from any angle you'd choose to shoot at what ever the velocity is at the point of impact; muzzle velocity is never it!

I have shot only about three deer with the 243 and have never had a problem, each time a dead deer and far more penetration THAN NEEDED FOR THAT SHOT, with 100gr Speer hot cores or Hornady Spire Points (pre interlock), I forget which, and even a 75gr V-Max. I don't like the 243 for big game, probally because I feel there are other cartridges pushing what I'd concider better bullets, but as we've heard here it is certainly capabile of doing so, my own prejudices aside. My present 243 gets loaded with the 75gr V-Max and is just for coyotes and smaller game but if all I had was a 243, I would shoot either 100gr Hornady's or Speer Hot cores and never look back. I would avoid any shot that required very deep penetration, but then do anyway. The best insurance of a clean kill is a proper bullet that reaches the heart/lung area and distroy's them with the least restistence. There is only one way to insure a "bang flop" every time, break the neck, a rather small target comparitively speaking.

[Darrell Davis]

Morn'in Don,

The "core slipping" issue is a bullet by bullet situation.

Meaning some are prone to slip and some aren't.

Bullets such as the Nosler solid base are different then for example a Speer boat tail.

If you were to cross section a wide selection of bullets,you would find a bunch of difference. Even more with the more recent "bonded core" bullets.  Having done some sectioning years back, I have found some cores showing seperation from the jacket by the time I had it sectioned.

I have seen slipped cores, and yes it happens.

If the boat tail jacket is solid with a squared off cup at the bottom it is less likely to slip then say a Speer BT in which both the jacket and the core are TAPERED at the base.

The Hornady "interlock" does a good job of retaining the core because of the ring of jacket metal protruding into the core, while the Speer BT has the well earn reputation for self distruction.

The Speer BT is not a "Hot Core" bullet, rather it is just a standard cup & core production.

My son shoots the Speer BT in a .270 #1 and for deer sized game it is deadly. It does however, self distruct!

The rifle was mine 15 - 20 years ago and If I had known then just how little integrity the Speer bullet possesed, I would not have worked up loads with it.  However, it shoots very well and Jeff continues to load it.  For elk, he is much better armed with a #1 in 300win.mag. throwing out a 200gr Nosler partition. No problems there!

Keep em coming!

[The Pistoleer]

We have shot many deer with our .243 and never lost one.  I use to load the 100gr. Nosler Partition but we have used the Remington Factory 100 gr. Core- Lokt for the last several years and I honestly can't see any difference in performance.  My grandson shot his first deer last year and his first buck this year and both only took one shot and traveled lest then 50 yards.  The buck was a frontal shot which took off the top of the heart and mushed one lung.

As for boat tail bullets shedding their jackets "Handloader" magazine had a couple of articles on that very
subject and they concluded that for shots under 200 yards they tended to shed their jackets.  The authors didn't recommend them for most hunting.

Pete

[ccoker]

I grew up in South Texas shooting lots of whitetails, average shot 150 yards
all were shot with a 243 that belonged to my dad
he killed a TON of deer and he reports only 1 ever lost with a 22-250
99% were shot through the neck and they dropped in there tracks
That's how dad did it (and my uncles) and so that's how I did it.
I bought my own deer rifle a few years ago, found an old sako L57 Forrester 243 at a gun show and grabbed it.

My dad told me that I had been shooting 85g BTHPs all those years, that gun was a tack driver and I never even thought about the distance... just zeroed in on the neck (maybe towards up a bit if it was "way out there"), steady, breathe exhale slowly, squeeze and surprise! the gun went off and I watched the deer drop through the scope (or flip up and back, whatever)

I bought some federal premiums with the same bullet and they wouldn't group worth a damn
Winchester 100g sps 3 shot groups could be covered by a quarter easily, sometimes touching each other
I shot a nice buck 2 years ago with it loaded with Winchester 95g Ballistic Silvertips, neck shot at about 130yards, drop


Being that I hunt out of a stand most of the time and that I go for neck shots (never ever shot at a deer that was walking away, just doesn't happen in the places I have hunted, most of the time it's a broadside shot or walking towards me) I have always subsribed to the light fast and flat theory (probably because my dad has an old sako 22-250 that has killed a TON of deer since it was built in 1965 and he always did neck shots)

Yesterday I took a box of Fed 80g softpoints, I got a 3 shot, one ragged hole grouping at a hundred yards.
If one of those hits a deer in the neck from just about any angle he ain't going anywhere...

[ccoker]

 Went out yesterday with my son to the range
going hunting in 2 weeks
I changed scopes and sighted in with the Fed 80g SPs
at 200 yards getting a no BS 1/2 group
that's what I am going with
I have some other loads available but that's what I will be hunting with

[statelinerut]

Got in the pine thicket stand this morning at 5:45 and boy was it cold. At about 8AM I saw a doe come running down the skidder trail and this boy trailing her. He dogged her for about 10 minutes in the thick stuff and finally came out for me to get a look at him. Having seen he was an 8 I got ready just in case he was a shooter. After deciding to take him he then ran back into the thicket and finally came out at about 120 yards. I put the crosshairs of the trusty Handi Rifle behind the shoulder and let the 95 grain Fusion eat. He ran 10 yards and called it quits. Oh....the 95 grain Fusion in the old 243 went completely through the ol boy. This bullet is bad to the bone. I know he is not a huge 8 point but he is my biggest yet. I am proud of him.
 
 

[Guybo]

I just recently worked up a load for a good friend who shoots a Rem Mod 7 243.  It prints groups around 3/4" @ 100yds. He's taken three deer with it in the past two weeks and all have been one shot kills and they fell right there when he pulled the trigger. Closest shot was about 90yds and the longest was around 180yds, needless to say he's very happy with the bullets performance. I don't have the load data in front of me and i can't remember what the charge was but the powder is RL19 pushing a 100gr Sierra Pro Hunter.

[tuck2]

I must like the .243 Win round, I have a Ruger No.1,Win Mdl 70 Varmint, Win Mdl 70 Push Feed and a Browning rifle. I first shot a mule deer and pronghorn with the Browing bolt action using 100 Gr Hornady SP back in 1963. The last four mule deer I shot with the.243 Win round was with a  Ruger No.1 using the Nosler 95 Gr bullet,42.0 Gr RL 22, CCI 200 primers,Winchester cases.  So far I have taken deer with a 22-250, 243 Win , 257 Roberts, 25-06 Rem, 264 Win, 270 Win, and 308 Norma Mag. I have lost one deer because I made a bad shot ,but not with the 243  round. Now when I hunt in the wide open country for mule deer I use the 264 Win Mag.

[statelinerut]

Got in the stand Monday afternoon about 3:00 and boy was it nice. A little warm, but a beautiful afternoon to be on stand. About 4:15 I hear a little grunt about 100 yards in front of me in the hardwoods and in come a little 4 point showing off. I kept looking for the doe, but could not find her. After watching him for about 20 minutes, I see him take off after something and here she came out of the thicket. She ran 25 yards in front of my stand and KABOOOOOOM!. The ol Handi Rifle in .243 usind the Federal Fusion 95 grain put her down nice and quick. She is one of the bigger does on my land behind the house. She just got put in the freezer to be returned in minute steaks for the family to enjoy. What a day. Aint nutin like it      
 
 

[Duckbill]

This is my nephew with his 165# 8pt he shot 3 weeks ago.  I sold the 243 to his dad and handloaded his bullets for him.  95gr Nosler Partitions did the trick.  The buck went about 30yds.  He also killed a big doe the night before with it and she went about 20yds.

[dpastordan]

I used a Remington 742 in .243 for a few years and found that the Federal Softpoints were the most accurate and dependable for this rifle.  The furthest a deer ran that was hit was about 30 yards.  Times got tough and sold that gun.  I just bought a Remington Seven, in the youth version for sitting in trees with a heavy winter coat.  I have reloading equipment now and will work up 100 gr Noslers for it.  Also have a Handi-Rifle that I recently bought a spare barrel in .243 - 20" w/iron sights.  I'm going to experiment with that one for varmints and iron sights - and maybe later as a back up deer rifle in the woods.

[mag-check]

85gr. X bullet! 45gr. Re19 best .243 deer bullet Ive found!

[statelinerut]

Another good day for the Handi .243 with the 95 grain Fusion. Got in the ol pine forrest this morning and boy was it cold. At about 10:00 she came out of the thicket to feed on some acorns on the edge of the pines. I let her turn broadside at 60 yards, and the Handi .243 put her down nice a quick. Got to love it when they go bang flop      
 

[TxRattler]

Never had a problem with any 100 gr bullet I put in my .243. 25+ years of using it and I never ever lost a deer.
But if I were to pick one it would be Hornady factory ammo, as I dont handload. I wouldnt reccomend very hard bullets, the .243 has no problems with penetration.
Corelocks and power points will do it every single time.

[wahunterinrok]

I uesd a 243 on my first 5 deer and had pretty good results.  All 5 were with 100 gr Core Lokts out of my BLR. 

[ccoker]

shot two deer this l last weekend
80g fed softpoints
doe at 100 yards, buck at 250
both in the heart/lung area
both dropped

[gt40]

Hi Guys,
     This is my first post after joining a great forum. I am a firm believer and user of the .243. I have been hunting with my Winchester Md. 70 for over 35 years. I don't know how many deer I have killed with it, but maybe 100. When I first started hunting I thought that the heart was the best place to shoot a deer. But I believe that I was wrong. Yes a heart shot will kill a deer, but most of the time it will kick up its back legs and run. I have found that if the deer is hit about 6" above the heart and just behind the front leg ( broadside ) the bullet enters and for some reason creates the shock that kills them before their knees buckle. Like a head shot. I have not killed every deer with this shot, but when they were hit there they were DRT 100% of the time. I always try for that hit. I have always used Searra 85 gr. HPBT.  They enter about an inch and then explode and create a pocket about the size of a soccer ball of mulch. I think that any deer rifle will do the same thing. 

[k3yston3]

My hunting load for my .243 consisted of 100gr Nosler Partitions, Federal 210 primers, ww cases and lots of Reloader 22.  What worked in my .243 was well above what alliant suggests in their load data for the .243, but my gun seemed to get more accurate the faster you pushed the bullet, and I went until I no longer felt comfortable and backed my load off.  I killed several antelope, deer, and even my first bull elk(5x5) with the mine.

[Dave in WV]

gt40, welcome to GBO. I have had similar experiences with my .243 using a 100gr Core-Lokt. Dave

[doeroller]

Fortunate to live in Mississippi and get to shoot and see alot of deer get shot. I have a Tikka T3 in 243. It is the most accurate out of the box rifle I have ever seen. Most factory ammo and handloads shoot under 1". I have not had the expected success with the 85 Sierra HP. A better choice for deer for me has been the Nosler 85 Partition. The best factory load has been the Federal Fusion. I have witnessed close to 30 deer shot this season with a 243 and speak from experience.

[coyotejoe]

I've taken several mule deer with the .243 and 87 grain Hornadys. Nothing unusual to report except this one. He was looking at me from behind a tree, his head on one side, body on the other, at about 50 yards. The tree covered the shoulder and not wanting to hit the tree, I held a few inches off and took an offhand shot with the Ruger 77RSI. He ran about 30 yards. I found that my shot had gone a bit farther back than intended and had angled even farther back into the paunch. When I sliced up the heart to clean it I found bits of chewed up leaves inside the ventricles of the heart! Some leaves were big enough that I could identify the type of shrub. I can only surmise that the bullet impacting into the stomach had blasted some of its' contents back through the blood vessels and into the heart. Don't see how else that chewed up vegetation could have gotten inside the heart.  I would have no qualms about hunting deer with the 87 grain Hornady.
  When the .243 Winchester and .244 Remington were first introduced all the know-it-all gun gurus insisted the .243 would be the better deer gun because of its' 100 grain bullet versus the 90 grain .244, as if 10 grains would ever be noticed.  Funny thing is, hunters who actually used the .244 found the 90 grain bullet performed perfectly on deer at all ranges, whereas the 100 grain .243's often failed to expand at 200 yards or more.  Never mind, the know-it-alls still insisted the 100 grain was a "more suitable weight", just don't try shots beyond 200 yards with the .243.
  Similar to way back when the 250/3000 was new. The gun know-it-alls wanted a heavier bullet even though all admitted the original 87 grain killed like lightning.  So they got the 100 grain load and it still killed deer but not "like lightning" and now 100 grains is the only factory load for the sweet little 250.
  Likewise, many hunters know the the 30/30 is best with the 150 grain bullet. Its' higher velocity delivers more shock, its' shorter length is less easily deflected, it produces less recoil and its' penetration is more than adequate. But the gun-know-it-alls will tell you that only the 170 should ever be considered.
Some people just seem quite certain that a heavier bullet must naturally be more deadly but in fact it usually just turns a splendid rifle into a mediocre rifle.

[Brithunter]

[quote]Likewise, many hunters know the the 30/30 is best with the 150 grain bullet. Its' higher velocity delivers more shock, its' shorter length is less easily deflected, [/quote]

     Hmmm interesting statement that. Care to explain why the 6.5mm's with their long bullets are so highly regarded then?

     As for the 6mm's I have never hunted with one yet as I have never been keen on the .243 although I did acquire a 6mm Rem Parker-Hale 1200V last year and have been working with some loads at the range but as yet I am not happy with any of them really  . Most that I know who do use the .243 use 100 grn bullets.

      Now last Saturday whilst in my old local gunshop I came across a BSA Majestic in yes you guessed it .243. Now normally I would not pay much attention to it BUT this one has the BESA Recoil Reducer machined into the muzzle. Never have seen one in the flesh before I was intrigued and we agreed a price and a deposit was paid. Now once I can get hold of the lazy licensing officers at the Police HQ perhaps we can get the licence sorted out so I can get it.

     So from not being interested in 6mm's I have collected two and both times it was the actually rifle I was interested in and not the chambering. Only time will tell if their performance will change that view.

[coyotejoe]

The long, heavy bullets from the 6.5 have developed an understandably good reputation for deep penetration on HEAVY game. That has nothing at all to do with DEER! Penetration is useful only up to the point that the bullets exit, more than that is wasted. I've taken several deer with my 6.5x55 using the 120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips, a design usually considered rather explosive, and all exited. Why on earth would I want more penetration than that? If I were to load the 160 grain roundnose at its greatly reduced velocity I'd get a much smaller wound channel, much less shock and a slower kill all be it with penetration enough for several deer. Or, as I said, I'd be turning a splendid deer rifle into a mediocre moose rifle.
John Taylor knew his stuff in Africa and those who quote him today tend to pick and choose what suits the point they are trying to make.  If I were head shooting elephants I'd load my 6.5mm with 160 grain roundnose FMJs. But those who've actually read Taylors books and not just the parts on elephant know that he had great praise for the "high velocity small bore" for the general run of  thin skinned African game, even some of which runs much larger than the Swedish moose.
Of course, Taylor never saw a .243 nor any of the wide selection of well designed bullets we have today.

[Brithunter]

Ahhh I see you working from theory and not actual first hand experience

     The Hornady 160 grn RNSP bullet from the 6.5x55 Swedish in my experience is actually too much for small Deer. My first experience with this was one Febuary at about 90 yards with a 35lb Roe Doe broadside on. I shot her and she spun round 180 degrees and dropped on the spot. Exit wound was just over an inch in diameter. However the whole offside shoulder was bloodshot  the entry side was OK. Load was 44.0 Grns of Reloader 19.

    I too changed and used the Speer 120 grn SP and didn't get the trouble of the bloodshot meat then. My first ever Roe Doe was shot using a 180 grn bullet in a .308. That too was a drop on the spot. However I was not happy with the Sierra's performance as it blew up on the ribs and tore a 4" elongated hole in the exit side. I switched to using a 165 grn Speer bullet and didn't have that problem again. In fact thinking back the fastest ever kill on a Roe Buck (this time) was using RWS factory 173 Grn H-Mantle ammunition. The Buck dropped so fast that I never saw it drop, he still had grass in his mouth and the bullet broke his left fore leg on exiting and it was thrown out to the side and when he dropped straight down it propped him up on his chest so it looked like he had lain down when we walked up to him.

     Heavy for calibre bullets if of correct construction work exceptionaly well in my experience, and that is FIELD EXPERIENCE, not from a book or magazine.

  The one exception in my battery is my 30-30 Bolt action rifle in which I use 125-130 Grn spitzers loaded to about 2850fps. The only reason for that is the magazine was made to suit Winchester factory 170 grn ammo and I cannot seat any heavier spitzer bulltes out far enough. This rifle shoots rather poorly with Winchester factory ammo grouping at about 3" or so at 100 yards however with the handload shoots well under 1 MOA. The only animal I ahve shot wiht the 30-30 factory ammo was using the win 150 grn HP and it was a Red Fox dog at about 65 yards and it tore him apart  I would hate to use that load on a Roe Deer.

[coyotejoe]

Sir, we have jack rabbits the size of your roe deer!   For them I find the .22 WMR to be quite adequate!
  I've taken whitetail, mule deer, antelope and elk with .22 lr, .223, .243, 250 Savage, 6.5x55, .280 Rem, .30 carbine, 30/30, 30/06, .338 Win.mag., .357 mag, .45 Colt, 45/70, .50&.54 roundball muzzleloaders and a .648" ball from a 12 gauge muzzleloader. I never hunted elk with anything less than the 30/30 or .50 roundball but on deer and antelope the lesser guns all worked about equally well, and even a pronghorn would make two roe deer. There is no question that about any bullet will kill reasonably quickly if properly placed but I've seen first hand, no theory, that high impact velocities and rapid expanding bullets put the animal down more quickly.
  I must admit I've never shot a roe deer but I have shot quite a few jack rabbits!

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

      Jack rabbits however are not responsible for at leat 60 deaths each year are they?

       Plus the Jack is only a Hare by another name and according to the search I did on the Jack Rabbit it grows to about 8lbs in weight (ahh it seems that was the Californian one). A long way from the 35lbs you claim. Also the Common Brown Hare which we have here in the UK and which I often see on our back field can reach a weight of 13 lbs, big but not the same as Roe Deer which incidently is an acient species. A follised one was discovered whilst they were digging the extension to the Westminster line of the Underground in London. The fosil was easily identifeid as the Roe as the species has hardly changed at all in all that time  .

       Now should you ever get to visit the UK and woudl wish to try hunting Roe it should be possible to sort soemthing out as they are in season all year only changing for Buck to Doe. However Roe are tmiid normally and very secretive, think Whitetail but about 3 times worse  . Legally you need a minimum calibre of .240" whcih produces a muzzle energy of at least 1700ftlbs for England and wales. The law in Scotland is different. Hunting here is almost all by the paid outing unless you own or lease your own land. Before my move I hd permission to hunt a small piece of land which was in a good position and had both Fallow and Roe using it.

    This is the 4pt Buck I shot with that 7x57 :-


You can see the exit wound on the upper leg.

   It's surprising by this Buck weighed about 45 lbs, their legs are really light but strong, and they can jump about 10 feet in the air. Ahhh just found this a Common Brown Hare:-



  Roe in summer are hard to spot as this photo shows:-


 
  That is a 4 pt Buck hiding and this is the same Buck once he got up to browse, as you can see he is in moult:-



  These were taken in Hampshire on May 21st 2005. i didn't shoot either I photographed as I was looking for a 6point Buck, then lost the fleeting chance I had at one  but came home with a Muntjac Buck carcase for the freezer. It was a nice youger Buck and excellent eating. Muntajc are even smaller than Roe Deer.

   The .243 Winchester is a well regarded cartridge and extremely popular here in the UK partly because it's the legally required minimum and the Police like that word MINIMUM and so push lots of Stalkers to use the .243.

[coyotejoe]

Thanks for the information, really!  You win, I have to admit your roe deer are bigger than a jack rabbit, dang near as big as a coyote!
Yep,  just a horny coyote!