Author Topic: WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUSTOMERS  (Read 2449 times)

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Offline missed_shot

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUSTOMERS
« on: February 19, 2006, 07:45:50 AM »
I have been reading about the dissatisfaction many of us have with NEF/H&R . I purchased a new 38/55 Target gun.  When I received it the metal butt plate was not fit properly and when I adjusted it, the plate sliced up my fingers because it was razor sharp.  I had to take a very fine file to it and had to readjust it.  SLOPPY STUFF.  WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO DO BEFORE WE START TO SEARCH ELSEWHERE ?
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Offline Sourdough

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2006, 08:00:25 AM »
Minor little stuff like that, and having to open up the gun and give it a through cleaning before use I can live with.  As long as the gun shoots well and the price stays reasonable, I don't have a problem with them.  The main fault I had with the gun from the beginning was the trigger.  Now they have lightened the trigger to an acceptiable level.   And they are now making a real Big Game rifle, (the .35 Whelen) I'm happy.  In fact  the new .17 HMR Sprotster I got for Christmas is the best of the lot.  I'm back to shooting 4" clay targets at 300 yards, with my new barrel on my old 30-06 Handi.  Life is good!
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Offline quickdtoo

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2006, 08:33:06 AM »
Missed_shot, I hope this is just a temporary vent, there have been several Handi owners lately that have been more than disappointed in the recent quality of the NEF/H&R products, but there are many, many more very happy owners, it's just the few that are unhappy that are heard from the most, which is normal. NEF/H&R has addressed many of the issues that we have complained about in the past, trigger pull weight and stuck case problems, and added some asked for calibers. Change takes time, hopefully they will continue to listen and fix the few quality control issues that seem to be prevelent lately.

I agree, the BC/Target butt plates are very sharp edged, I found out the same way. One of mine didn't fit very well, the contour was a little off and left a gap in the middle, so I heated it and rebent it to fit better. Screw holes on one was stripped, too, but that's an easy fix with a wood toothpick in the hole.

Tim
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Offline stimpylu32

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2006, 03:37:40 PM »
I too have had some qurks with my handi's but over all they are great rifles for the money ,We all feel that they need to step up their QC some .

What most people do not relize is just how many rifles and shotguns they put out a year . sure some will slip through the cracks , but how many very happy owners are out there that no one ever hears from .

I would love some changes in QC but not at the expence of a fine low cost gun , besides i just like to tinker with them .  :money:
Deceased June 17, 2015


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Offline JPH45

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2006, 05:21:46 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo
Missed_shot, I hope this is just a temporary vent, there have been several Handi owners lately that have been more than disappointed in the recent quality of the NEF/H&R products, but there are many, many more very happy owners, it's just the few that are unhappy that are heard from the most, which is normal. NEF/H&R has addressed many of the issues that we have complained about in the past, trigger pull weight and stuck case problems, and added some asked for calibers. Change takes time, hopefully they will continue to listen and fix the few quality control issues that seem to be prevelent lately.

I agree, the BC/Target butt plates are very sharp edged, I found out the same way. One of mine didn't fit very well, the contour was a little off and left a gap in the middle, so I heated it and rebent it to fit better. Screw holes on one was stripped, too, but that's an easy fix with a wood toothpick in the hole.

Tim


Not being disagreeable, just another side of this. I was quite the fan of the NEf Handi Rifle. I've had 4 complete guns and a barrel fited by the factory in the last three years. I actually encouraged many to keep up working on and with their handi's through this site and the old Marlin supported site. But over time, all the faults and failures that I would read of others having began to happen on my guns. One on frame alone I had a transfer bar failure, broken firing pin, weakened hammer spring and barrel to loosen. That compounded by all the other faults I was seeing was the last straw for me. My 38-55 is gone. Once my 357 Max dies the inevitable NEF poor craftsmanship and second rate parts breakages it will be gone too, and I won't have another. Today, rather than being the supportive and enthuesiastic NEF owner I once was, at every opportunity, I tell my story to everyone who asks me about the NEF Handi.

This board ain't the whole world, and there are many out there who have had these guns, only to find out that they are not the quality a firearm needs to be. Like myself, they are not returning anything to the factory, they are simply beginning to tell people the truth about the Handi, it is a rifle with several design flaws that lead to the rifles inaccuracy and mechanical failure. It's a fine gun if you don't shoot it. If you shoot it, it will break. No questions, and the factory ain't helping itself by returning shoddy work to customers who paid good money for a servicable product.

So what can NEF do to keep it's customers? Won't matter what they do so far as I'm concerned, I'll never have another Handi. I'm done with them. That they won't do something as simple as drop the metal butt plates into a deburr machine to smooth the sharp edge tells me that they are not going to resolve the real problems that plague these guns, and it is going to cost them the very customers that keep them alive.

Think of it, Why should I put my money into a Handi when the same money will buy a Stevens 200, or a Savage at the gunshow or pawn shop, or for the price of 2 Handis I can have a TC Contender, a breakopen known for it's rugged durablility.

I only come here and read and keep up with some folks I made friends with long ago on the old Marlin sponsored site, not to bad mouth the Handi. But this post deserves an honest answer from someone who has walked on both sides of this fence.
Boycott Natchez Shooters Supplies, Inc

Offline demented

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2006, 06:01:22 PM »
I'm sad to say I have to agree with JPH45.  I bought a stainless .243 that would not group less than four inches at 100 yards, even after three trips back to the factory at my expense.  I gave it away, bought a Savage 16FSS and have not regreted the switch in the least.  A rifle that won't hit anywhere near where its aimed is worthless.  Oh, I also had the sticking case problem. I had to carry a cleaning rod around wherever I went.

Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2006, 07:26:32 PM »
Quote
Like myself, they are not returning anything to the factory, they are simply beginning to tell people the truth about the Handi, it is a rifle with several design flaws that lead to the rifles inaccuracy and mechanical failure.


OK.... First..if you deciede not to return a rifle for what ever reason..who is at fault?I understand your problems happened over a period of time..and that does make a difference..but..knowing that the chamber and bore were out of specs as far as it is..should have been a major red flag with the rifle and to the company..and I do applaud your tenacity for sticking it out as long as you did..that says you don't give up easy...but I can honestly say that I would have gotten my money back after the first go around...... I have known from this forum of 2 folks who have returned their rifle several times..on the2 & 3 trip..they were issued total refunds..and 1 for an additional barrel that was fitted to it..I can also tell you of 3 folks who have returned their Brownings to the return center here in St.Louis the same amount..Browning won't refund your money..they simply replace the rifle thru a local dealer and have them do the FFL paper work that is involved.I think this is something NEF could do..without all the headaches or time wasted and should do.....I can also tell you of 2 folks who have had Remingtons that had to go back 4 times so far..they won't do anything either..or swear there is nothing wrong with the rifles..but they still have them..and they paid a-lot more than any Handi-rifle....So..is it just NEF...nope..I know it isn't..Could they make some major changes to them and make them better? Sure they could..but..in the end we all( atleast those of us who continue to buy them) will share the additional cost increases..The folks at Customer service can and do help a-lot of people..others seem to continue to have problems..and can not get their situations resolved..No company is perfect..and every manufacture has problems..

These rifles aren't the best..they are a $270 dollar single shot..that for the most part will give you a long life and good to excellent accuracy...and has a darn good customer service department to assist when things go terrible wrong..It's something no bolt gun can be..or ever  feel like...and will cost you far more to get something even close to it..and that is a point many here forget..Are there better single shots out there..yup...and that is what we are talking here...Single Shots...not bolt guns..

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline tscott

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2006, 02:20:16 AM »
Ditto for me on the problems, and the no going back, but to answer the question: NEF needs to can the marketing of low cost repeater shotguns, and focus on what made it successful in the first place: Low cost single shot rifles and shotguns. I have a single H&R 12 guage. Patent says 1905.
The forend is sleek and fitted to barrel, thin and comfortable. The stock is obviously fitted to receiver. Also same gun 1968 that I bought new for $29
is closer to todays quality, but never the issues with the recent Handi's that I unloaded. I have a Browning 1885, significant difference, but I paid
$400 15 years ago... Even if the Browning is $800 now it is in my book more than 3 times the sporting rifle. You folks seem pretty sharp, and I honor your committment to your investment. I just felt I was supporting sub par American labor, on silly little things that could easily have been corrected before leaving NEF. I feel you folks deserve better!!!

Offline RemingtonMagnum

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What I want to see...
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2006, 04:27:34 AM »
I want a hand held stock with a short barrel??? Now that Savage is stopped to make the Striker then I would like to see NEF/H&R/New England create a hand held stock that will create a pistol and short barrel Rifle combination. With the break open barrel. Should turn a few heads...

If NEF/H&R/New England uses this idea please send me a complimentary in 22 Hornet. Smile God Loves You!

Don Jackson Remington Magnum/Ultramag

Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2006, 04:43:44 AM »
Quote
I want a hand held stock with a short barrel??? Now that Savage is stopped to make the Striker then I would like to see NEF/H&R/New England create a hand held stock that will create a pistol and short barrel Rifle combination. With the break open barrel. Should turn a few heads...


That certainly would be interesting..and they could fill this void quite easily...

Mac
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Offline Ranger J

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2006, 04:47:19 AM »
There are lemons in anything but some of the things I am seeing on this forum seem to be the result of sloppy carelessness.  Several years ago I got my first Handi, a .223 bull barrel and I has shot good with only the problem of the occasional stuck empty.  I read on either this forum or the old one about polishing the chamber to cure this.  This has worked fine but should I have to be the one doing this?  I like the gun enough that I have purchased three other barrels, first a .44 mag, then a 45/70 and a .308 bull barrel.  The last came out of the box capable of shooting close to same hole at 50 and 100 yards respectively.  The .44 has been more of a challenge as it is one of the oversize bore ones.    After much $%$#&** :x  and playing with different size bullets and loads I have it shooting fairly reasonable groups.  Again, should I have to go through this to get acceptable performance?  These are just small complaints on my part and messing with the .44 does keep me off the streets.  The Handi is still the gun that I enjoy shooting the most.  It is the one I took deer hunting and I took as much satisfaction with the dead in its tracks doe, shot with my hand loaded cartridge, as with any large buck I have killed with a ‘repeaterÂ’.  NEF does need to watch the quality as my local gun shop says the sales of Stevens 200 in the caliber it is offered in is really hurting the sales of Handis.  The 200 goes for $245 around here.  If it were offered in a 35 Wheelen I would be sorely tempted.
RJ

Offline RemingtonMagnum

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Handi Stopper
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2006, 04:52:31 AM »
Maybe they will call it the Handi Stopper. Because it is so handi and should stop people and make them look. NEF/H&R/New England can create this without having to retool just cut un sold barrels down and make the stock. They want even have to re tool and put a bolt on the opposite side. Sounds solid to me.

Send Winning Rifle 22 Hornet Handi Stopper to ochocodj@bellsouth.net Smile!

Don Jackson Remington Magnum/Ultramag

Offline knight0334

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2006, 05:15:03 AM »
I'd like to see NEF/H&R's fit/finish work to improve some.  Also minor changes in the mechanics of the firearms..  Like turning the barrels smooth instead of the course lathed surface.  Better material in the transfer bar to fix a problem that a few people have had.

I'd also like to see a contoured hammer on these firearms instead of the squared steel units.


==
There's lemons in every bunch.  I cant afford $400-1000 for a rifle that more then likely shoot just the same as my $200 Handi.  ..nor would I gamble that much to see if one could shoot better.

All it takes is a little simple logic and mechanical intuition to make a Handi shoot and fully function like a several hundred dollar firearm.  It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out how to get firearm to perform.  Simple things like floating the barrel, supporting the gun near the hinge or a different load tend to work most of the time.  ...the same things the big name rifles need at times too.

I've yet to have a Handi that didn't perform good, looks on the other hand could have been spruced up.
RIP ~ Teeny: b.10/27/66 - d.07/03/07

Offline mitchell

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2006, 05:57:39 AM »
"WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUSTOMERS" you ask???




money in my pockets



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curiosity killed the cat , but i was lead suspect for a while

Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2006, 06:11:37 AM »
Quote from: knight0334
I'd like to see NEF/H&R's fit/finish work to improve some.  Also minor changes in the mechanics of the firearms..  Like turning the barrels smooth instead of the course lathed surface.  Better material in the transfer bar to fix a problem that a few people have had.

I'd also like to see a contoured hammer on these firearms instead of the squared steel units.


==
There's lemons in every bunch.  I cant afford $400-1000 for a rifle that more then likely shoot just the same as my $200 Handi.  ..nor would I gamble that much to see if one could shoot better.

All it takes is a little simple logic and mechanical intuition to make a Handi shoot and fully function like a several hundred dollar firearm.  It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out how to get firearm to perform.  Simple things like floating the barrel, supporting the gun near the hinge or a different load tend to work most of the time.  ...the same things the big name rifles need at times too.

I've yet to have a Handi that didn't perform good, looks on the other hand could have been spruced up.


I agree :agree:

The problem as I see it is one of cost..how much would it increase the cost of a Handi to do these changes on their line with as many guns are being produced...Using a higher grade steel..will certainly raise cost..having the barrels polished perfectly smooth would do the same..having a perfectly inletted stock and forearm would also raise the cost more..same for having a better trigger made...all would be extra steps involved in it's production..

I have long asked for a rifle that would live up to the name of " Ultra ".....but since NEF/Marlin has no intentions of opening a custom shop..that leaves the customizing up to us.and if you have to pay someone for these extras..then you'll get an idea of how much the cost of a Handi will increase..

They have given us a inexpensive platform to build upon..but..one thing that Marlin/NEF has to do is to make the chambers and bores to the correct SAMMI specs and not accept those that are all on the sloppy side..they need to replace old worn reamers right away...Also.. the actions and barrels have to be fitted together correctly with all the correct parts before they leave the factory...all the rest is cosmetic..and easily corrected..either by them or us..to our own likings...until they do..there will always be some unhappy folks...I'm not opposed to sending a rifle back to get it fixed correctly if they have released it with major flaws....and... if they don't fix it to my satisfaction..I'll ask for a replacement..or refund..I'll do this with anything I purchase not just a inexpensive rifle...I am opposed to folks saying the entire line of NEF's aren't worth the money paid for them and have chosen to go with a different type of rifle..because of one issue they have had..this really isn't the case with all of them...only certain ones have been a constant problem..and they have addressed some of the issues..just not all of them yet..

Mac
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Offline Fred M

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2006, 06:21:46 AM »
Same old story, with the same results which are nothing has changed from the day I bought Handi. So I have two fine shooting Handi's but not because they came like that from the factory.

H&R needs to look into quality control, make good stress relieved  barrels
and solid lock ups. A loose butt plate is chicken sh-- and nothing to worry about but when added to all the other deficient things it add up to a bag of crap.

Money in your pocked is just another poor way to look at  things. If you want quality you have to pay for it. Squacking about the cost of these rifles is not getting anywhere. Anything cheaper will just add more to the pile of crap.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline knight0334

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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2006, 07:21:51 AM »
Mac11700,

Yes, some of those things would probably push prices up.  I paid a premium for my Ultra Varmint and Buffalo Classic over my regular Handi's, for that premium I think a couple things could have been addressed.  

I'd pay another $20-40 more on these rifles to clean up some of the things mentioned by all above.   I think with some of the problems fixed, more people would buy them, which would offset some of the additional costs of manufacture (profit per volume vs. profit per sale) and create a greater following.

I personally love these firearms.  My first gun was a NEF 12ga back in 1988, and I continue to buy these things today.   Priced right for me, perform well enuff to put meat in the freezer.
RIP ~ Teeny: b.10/27/66 - d.07/03/07

Offline Sourdough

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2006, 07:29:46 AM »
Only had one problem, my .35 Whelen would not fire factory ammo.  Fired my hand loads just fine but would not fire factory stuff.  Sent it back to NEF they fixed it no problem.  I shoot my 30-06 daily, and have never had a problem with it.   The original barrel had many boxes of ammo shot through it.  The new barrel has now had three boxes shot through it.  I have had no problem with this gun what so ever.  I'm happy!
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Offline Mac11700

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2006, 08:14:48 AM »
Quote
I'd pay another $20-40 more on these rifles to clean up some of the things mentioned by all above. I think with some of the problems fixed, more people would buy them, which would offset some of the additional costs of manufacture (profit per volume vs. profit per sale) and create a greater following.


Yup..I would too..but some folks are spending everything they have on them at the current price..and to spend more..will drive off just as many of them I'm afraid..High quality single shots aren't cheap to produce..what most of us are getting is well worth the money.As they stand right now..odds are in the buyers favor of getting a good one..with the exception to a few select calibers and variations of them..and for me..I'm very happy that I can explore different calibers and all with them with out plunking down a whole bunch of money up front..and then again every time I want a different barrel,and I understand it will cost me to get a caliber that isn't offered...Lets's face it..we have the econo-version of single shots...some of them deliver true bench rest groups,the majority of them shoot acceptable groups..some of them don't shoot good no matter what..and a few won't even fire out of the box..It sounds like any other single shot gun that's manufactured to me..except we are paying a whole lot less up front...and some folks just can't accept this.Some have cosmetic problems..others have serious problems..and need the company to address them correctly and promptly...everything else is a matter of how much your willing to do to make it shoot tight groups..and that is another thread entirely...

Mac
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Offline buckslayer

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2006, 08:28:25 AM »
if you want a perfect gun, don't pay 200$ for it. buy a remy or a savage and pay 2-3 times as much, and it will be little cleaner in the box and the trigger may be a bit tighter. i would rather pay 2-3 times LESS and get out the cleaning patches........ i agree with sourdough on the triggers. i also got a .17 hmr for christmas and their current triggers are the best. i shot a 50 yard group today with the hmr that was 1/4" for five shots. it took about 1 week of off and on tinkering with it to get it their. now it will equal or come close to any custom 17 out their. it cost 150$$........
I've got to many but never enough!!!! :eek:

Offline stimpylu32

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2006, 08:45:55 AM »
For the most part everyone seams to have forgotten all the problems that TC had when they first came out , sure they have addressed these problems but at what cost .

Just look at the price tag of a new Encore and all the after market barrels , stocks and ect. To get the fit and finish of a TC you have to be willing to pay the price .

For the price of one barrel for TC you can get a complete H&R rifle . It is just a matter of how much you want to spend .

If the H&Rs are not up to your standards by all means spent the extra and get the TC , but don't complain when you do not get TC quality , fit and finish when you are not willing to pay the price for it .

Just the way i happen to feel about the subject .
Deceased June 17, 2015


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Offline Bamaflyer

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WHAT DOES NEF/H&R NEED TO KEEP IT'S CUS
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2006, 09:16:43 AM »
I know I've said this before but here goes one more time. I have seven Handie's with four extra barrels. All of them are keepers. I have had problems with only two of them. These problems were corrected and they now shoot very well. The best is my 308 Suvivor. It shot .75 inch out of the box. (after a good cleaning and chamber polish). I also have three TC Encores and one Contender. I've had more trouble with good groups from the TC's than the Handie's. Please don't talk H&R into going up on the price. I still have a lot of catching up to do to equal Quick, MSP and some of the rest of you.

Rusty

Offline knight0334

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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2006, 09:29:25 AM »
You know what'd be really nice??  If NEF/H&R can perfect their tolerences on the barrel to receiver fitting so that you can just up and buy barrels like you can for TC's..  

..Absolute interchangability??
RIP ~ Teeny: b.10/27/66 - d.07/03/07

Offline McLernon

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NEF/HR Tip-up Rifles
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2006, 10:32:26 AM »
I would very much like my .223 Handi to be a tack driver but I don't think I'll ever get there even after bedding my barrel lug to the action which I plan to do soon. You will never get the fit-up on a tip-up rifle to be as tight AND as stiff as a good bolt action. And without BOTH, accuracy will not be as good, period.
With my best bolt action rifles on a calm day I can kill flies at a hundred yards quite consistently. This is not much of an exaggeration at all really!! I think it was Warren Page that said that 'the only interesting rifle is an accurate rifle'. Well accuracy really is relative. Do I need to be able to kill flies at 100 yards? For some of my rifles the answer is yes because these rifles are going to be used under field conditions for shots at 200 to 400 yards at ground hogs and there are enough good reasons for missing these long shots without having the rifle being one of them. I have heard the term MOC(minute of coyote). I think this is a very good term to use for rifles intended for hunting slightly bigger game at shorter distances and my Handi is definitely at least this good. As a matter of fact without any mods the rifle has shot WWB 45 gr's into an average group of 0.85 inches. And that isn't too shabby. The maximum group size is about 1-1/2 to two inches with the occasional thrown/dropped shot.

I think my Handi is an 'interesting rifle' and deserves a place in my gun rack because it does the job it was intended for-----kill coyotes at 150 yards.

If you want a tack driver buy a good quality bolt action rifle.

McLernon

Offline knight0334

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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2006, 12:09:37 PM »
"Minute Of Coyote"  

LMAO!  Nice!  I'm gonna have to remember that.
RIP ~ Teeny: b.10/27/66 - d.07/03/07

Offline bluebayou

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« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2006, 01:46:26 PM »
"bag of crap"

LOL

My 2 cents is that I paid $220 on average for two rifles (and an additional $90 for the 44 barrel).  Everyone wants sub-MOA and custom rifle accuracy.  Well, my Rem 700 wouldn't group and was sent to the factory 3 times.  The barrel wasn't rifled all the way to the muzzle.  My new Winchester 70 had loctite in the chamber from the front action screw and flimsy, loose Weaver style mounts.  There are always duds.  More importantly 2" groups at 100 yards are not the end of the world.

Offline ajshoots

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« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2006, 03:27:08 PM »
I now own 4 complete rifles thanks to all of the fine folks here at GBO :lol: I am about sick of hearing all of the crying. If you don't like em move on and buy someone elses products! Every manufacturer has problems no different from NEF. I keep buying them because I am a hunter and don't care about looks, but only accuracy and fit. I have a Rem 700 .243 that would shoot 2" average groups. Spent alot of time and money to get it sub MOA. All of my NEF's without any work shoot better than 2" all are 1.5" or less. As far as needing sub MOA groups to make shots on g-hogs from 200-400yds. My Handi .204 "AVERAGES" 1" groups, I killed 111 hogs last year with that gun and 50 of those hogs were between 400 and 525yds. Not bad for a $200 rifle. I think I will continue to buy em.

Offline missed_shot

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« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2006, 11:37:30 AM »
My hopes were the the people at NEF read this and fix the easily fixable problems. Quality control won't cost much and will keep alot of people happy. :D
DONUTS - IS THERE ANYTHING THEY CAN'T DO ??- HOMER SIMPSON

Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2006, 11:49:55 AM »
I guess those of us that are happy with our Handis need to quit posting about it so all they see is the negative stuff since they do indeed have eyes on this forum. :?

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline cpj

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« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2006, 01:57:21 PM »
I like my survivor .223. Moa groups for 205 bucks, I wont complain much. I can live with the rough barrel finish, I would just scratch it anyway. Stock fit, same thing, its not a 1200$ wetherby. Trigger aint bad for a 200 dollar gun. I would love to see them make it where you can get barrels without sending it back to them. Just fix the mechanical  problems that everyone complains about,  and leave the finnish as is. Its a 200 dollar gun.