Author Topic: 444 or 45-70 ? (Read 2991 times)

Wing · « **on:** February 21, 2006, 03:37:03 PM »

I have been considering a new marlin lever gun. Ballistically on paper the 444 seems to be better but the 45-70 has greater availabilty of ammo. I would be using it here primarily as a brush gun for deer and bear in Pa. and for deer, bear and maybe moose in Me. or Canada. I have many bolt action rifles that would fit the bill but want a new lever gun. I currently do not hand load either. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

K.K. · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2006, 03:56:35 PM »

Both would serve you well. You are correct that the 45/70 offers more factory ammo choices and would drop anything in North America. I own a Guide Gun in .450 and killed my first ever buck with it in PA. The deer simply dropped. If I handloaded at the time, I'd have gone with the 45/70. You can now handload or biy factory ammo to match the power of the .450, or cowboy loads for plinking and fun. I think that the 45/70 is much more versatile. Just my 2 cents.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2006, 05:33:20 PM »

Gotta go with the 45/70 on this one, no question.

257 roberts · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2006, 05:50:38 PM »

I have a 1895ss in 45-70 and I shoot the 350gr buffalo bore ammo in it
I don't reload (45-70) its a hand full!!! my hunting buddy shoots a 444
The 444 is easier to handle, we shoot pigs with it and the 444 does just as much damage(he shoots Hornaday Light Mags)

Mikey · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2006, 01:58:31 AM »

Wing - There is lots of ammo available for either caliber. You can get heavy 444 loads from Garret, Buffalo Bore (I believe but may be wrong), Hornaday and Cor-bon. There is also lots of ammo choices available for the 45-70. I prefer the 444 and have taken some pretty good sized animals with that caliber and would use it for any big game hunting.

It's a shame you do not reload your own - that's really where the 444 can shine incredibly - same with the 45-70. You may wish to try it sometime, you get a lot of personal satisfaction from sitting down to a wild game meat dinner you have put on the table with one of your own loads. JMHO. Mikey.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2006, 03:04:55 AM »

I don't think you'll find ammo for either at walley world, but the 45.70 has a wider variety of ammo from mild to wild......

tapehoser · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2006, 04:56:42 AM »

Funny. I just resolved this exact dilemma last week. I had been asking myself and dozens of folks the same question for the past 2 months.

Ammo availability for the 444 is QUITE limited unless you reload. And even then, it is still limited because most manufacturers make a lot of .429 diameter HANDGUN bullets. Not RIFLE bullets.

The 45-70 has MUCH more choice in manufacturer ammo and bullets.

I got the 45-70.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2006, 03:54:48 PM »

Quote from: Wing

... Ballistically on paper the 444 seems to be better but the 45-70 has greater availabilty of ammo. ...primarily as a brush gun for deer and bear in Pa. and for deer, bear and maybe moose in Me. or Canada. ... I currently do not hand load either. ...

The .45-70 Buffalo Bore 350g Speer load would be my choice for hunting the big stuff like moose. It will shoot as flat as the .444 pushing a bullet of similar sectional density.

When it comes to ammo, the .45-70 goes from mild to wild, from cowboy action loads to Garrett 540g Hammerheads that can (and have!) shot through two cape buff.

On the cost side, the .45-70 ammo ranges from inexpensive $12/box (cowboy loads again) to 'Big 3' factory ammo at $18-22/box to Garrett and Buffalo Bore at $40-50 a box to Garrett 500g 'Exiters' at $180/box.

Triple4 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2006, 08:58:39 PM »

Quote from: tapehoser

Ammo availability for the 444 is QUITE limited unless you reload. And even then, it is still limited because most manufacturers make a lot of .429 diameter HANDGUN bullets. Not RIFLE bullets.

The 45-70 has MUCH more choice in manufacturer ammo and bullets.

I got the 45-70.

444 ammo is not as limited as you think, there is just as many high end loadings out there for the 444 as for the 45-70. As for bullets for the 444 there are more choices then you think. If you don't Handload then get a 450, with factory ammo no matter where you go you will know for sure that what you are shooting is what you will find, that can not be said for the 444/45-70.

JD338 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2006, 03:48:27 PM »

You would have more factory and handload options with the 45-70.

Regards,

JD338

tapehoser · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2006, 03:24:17 PM »

Whoops, meant Triple4......I have to disagree.

In these parts, bullets AND cartridges for the 444 Marlin are VERY limited. Sportsman's Warehouse and Cabela's only carry about one or two brands apiece.

But for 45-70 I can find a dozen manufacturers in the same store.

I reload. The only rifle bullets for 444 Marlin that I can in these parts is the 300 grain Nosler Partition and a Barnes....or was it Sierra? Anyhoo, very few.

Landngroove · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2006, 09:52:22 AM »

Liking the traditional calibers, I prefer the .45-70. If you handload you can really make this cartridge perform. I shoot this caliber in my 1895SS.

NYH1 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2006, 07:21:09 AM »

I just sold my 444 Mar. because I never use it not because I didn't like it. The reason I bought it was for deer and black bear hunting. Knowing what I know now if I get another Marlin Big Bore (and I probably will) I'll probably go with the 45-70. The reason I say that is because I won't use it for deer hunting (don't need too have many other deer rifles) just black bear and maybe wild boar. As mentioned the 45-70 is factory loaded from wild to mild and I don't roll my own so that's a plus. I'm not knocking the 444 Mar. because it's an awesome cartridge. :grin:

hogwild_444 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2006, 05:07:30 AM »

I have both and handload both. Bout the same in my book for the hunting I do. I have made more interesting loads with the 444; such as 3 round balls of .429 lead with the top one crimped. Heck of a shock dropper. Might come up with the same for the 45/70 when I get the time. 444 seems easier on the shoulder.

JEFF WARD2 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2006, 05:18:49 PM »

45-70 ammo can be bought about anywhere here where i live in k.y.
but if you dont reload the buffalo bore ammo is the way to go..
i dont reload either and first started shooting remington ammo ,then i bought some of the buffalo bore and will never look at anything else( untill i start rolling my own).. jeff

doncisler · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:16:48 PM »

.45-70
start reloading
my favorite calibur - 2 winchester 86's, 1 marlin 1895, one bfr revolver, one contender pistol.
300gr plinkers, 600gr cast thumpers, 300gr screamers.

Old Griz · « **Reply #16 on:** March 16, 2006, 07:52:35 AM »

:cb2: I always wanted a .444, and a hunting trip came up and I didn't have anything, so I was going to finally go and get that .444. Couldn't find one and didn't have time to special order one, so I had to "settle" for the 1895SS in .45-70 instead. So far, I've never regretted it. Veeeeeery accurate, and I won't go into the cartridge selection since it's been stated already. Besides, it's fun shooting a cartridge that's been around since 1873. Not some young whipper-snapper that just popped out in 1964!

Big Paulie · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2006, 11:36:57 AM »

Holy good night. What do you guys mean that .444 Marlin ammo is hard to find?. Give me a break!

Cabelas offers the Remington standard loads with the 240 grain bullet, plus the Hornady custom ammo in 265 grain bullet (which are light magnum loads) . The Hornady rounds can be gotten in either the flat nose 265 grain or the new LeverEvolution pointed tip in 265 grain. I believe that Garrett ammo also offers a very high performance .444 Marlin round.

I don't handload, but getting the ammo is real real easy. Here is how:

1. Pick up the phone.

2. Call Cabellas.

3. Order 4 to 6 boxes of your favorit .444 Marlin ammo.

4. Put in on your credit card.

5. It will arrive at your house in a nice brown box in about 5 days.

What in the world to you guys do? Drive around town, going in and out of Wally World's and K-Marts, looking for just one or two boxes of ammo every time you want to go to the range or hunt?

The prices from Cabella's are very cheap and reasonable, and you don't have to waste time and gasoline to get it.

The standard Remingtons with 240 grain bullet will drop any deer on the planet. The Hornady light mags with flat nose bullet will drop any moose or elk on the planet. I am sure that a Garret load would crush any Brown Bear, even a Kodiak. What more in the world could you ask for?

?

And, just in case you do like Wally World, they always seem to have the standard .444 Marlin rounds from Remington.

Big Paulie

EsoxLucius · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2006, 04:46:42 AM »

Garretts does not make 444 Marlin ammo. Try Buffalo Bore, Grizzly Cartridge and CORBON. Then there is Georgia Arms and Conley Precision Cartridge.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2006, 09:27:47 AM »

http://cpcartridge.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_85

http://cpcartridge.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_87

You have to decde what it is you want..both are great cartridges..and both will work exceptonally well on what your wanting to hunt.

Around here..you'll find asking which is better...is like asking if one preferes a Chevy or Ford....l..My personal preference is for the 45-70..I had to Winchesters in 444..and didn't care for that rifle at all...not the cartridge...wond up with a stainless ported guide gun in 45-70..haven't ever felt the need to drop back down to the 444..since then..I've had 4 different Marlins in 45-70...and have hopes of getting one of the new stainless XLR's when they become available..I handload for all of mine..and have no-need to buy factory fodder anylonger for them..
Mac

DirtyDan · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2006, 06:54:13 AM »

Marlin 1895, guide, cowboy or 22".

RemingtonMagnum · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2006, 04:42:59 PM »

HI Friends

I like the way you said that I have several bolt actions but WANT a new lever. My kind of Gun owner!

Don Jackson Remington Magnum/Ultramag

swiftman · « **Reply #22 on:** March 27, 2006, 03:05:25 PM »

Not everyone can order ammo throw the mail unless liscened to do so. Depends on what state you live in.
Why would you want to be limited to less than a 300gr bullet anyway?

pastorp · « **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2006, 11:23:54 AM »

Swiftman, no one said they ordered ammo through the mail. It must be shipped ground. The big brown truck is UPS. Regards, Byron

K.K · « **Reply #24 on:** March 29, 2006, 03:37:06 PM »

45-70 hands down. no disrespect to 444 lovers, but the 45-70 is more versatile, and can be a powder puff or stomper, depending on your mood (and pain threshold)

Pinkerton · « **Reply #25 on:** March 30, 2006, 03:35:50 PM »

K.K. pretty much summed it up there, even though I'm a 444 lover. I picked the 444 since I reload for three 44mags and have plenty of bullets. There is the argument that the 44 cal bullets are made for handguns but for what I hunt they've worked just fine in the 444 and if I need something more substantial bullet wise, I'll load a hardcast, I would if I was shooting a 45/70 too.

Pick what you like, the 45/70 is more versitile but either will fit the need.

Triple4 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 30, 2006, 10:34:57 PM »

Quote from: swiftman

Not everyone can order ammo throw the mail unless liscened to do so. Depends on what state you live in.
Why would you want to be limited to less than a 300gr bullet anyway?

The real question is why would anybody need a bullet bigger then 300grains? We have such a great selection of "Premium" bullets in the 300grain for both the 444 and 450/45-70.
It would be safe to say 95% of all animals killed in North america are with bullets less then 300grains.

wills · « **Reply #27 on:** April 04, 2006, 04:15:18 PM »

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=75409

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=27910

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=27910

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=49732

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=41687

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #28 on:** April 06, 2006, 04:35:29 PM »

I have the 94 in .444, have had the 336 in .45-70.

THE limititation of the 444 is the overall length of the cartridge.

I didn't realize it was so short and had to single load for an entire afternoon with 3 cartridges in the magazine I couldn't get out because I didn't check COAL! I was too used to single shots, with no COAL limitation.

Mikey · « **Reply #29 on:** April 07, 2006, 02:30:43 AM »

Cat - I believe that limitation applies to both cartridges in lever guns. I've had a few 'too long' 444s stick in my loading tube but learned quickly that oal is very important in both the Marlin and Winchester lever rifles. That being said however I find that using Beartooth bullets and load data gives me extremely hard hitting 444 loads that cycle perfectly through all my 94s. Mikey.