IMR/H-4227

[ZZTOP]

Hello all,
Just in case anybody was interested in these powders I just got an e-mail from the help desk at Hodgdon. My original question and a comment then a member of this board and then the answer.

Dear Hodgdon,
I was reading in the February Handloader magazine about IMR/H-4227 and wanted to ask about it.
> According to R.H VanDenburg. Jr. February 2006 Handloader Pg. 26 ... "With the availability of its new Lil'Gun powder, Hodgdon doesn't promote 4227 for use in the .410 shotshell any more but IMR does. It performs well in both 2 1/2- and 3-inch shell with traditional payloads and velocities. It may require a somewhat heavier powder charge than some of the newer .410 powders, but patterning is generally excellent.
>
> All that said, with the recent purchase of the IMR Powder Company by the Hodgdon Powder Company came the realization that IMR-4227 outsells H-4227 by a very wide margin. Consequently, I've been informed that sometime in 2006, as supplies run out, there will be no more H-4227. IMR-4227 will continue on serving handloaders as it has since 1935. Supplies of both will no doubt be on dealers' shelves for some time to come, be forewarned. " "
 
Then at a gun forum I found this:
Here's bad news on the IMR-4227.......Hodgdon is doing away with it and IMR-4198 and renaming H4198 as IMR-4198 and H4227 as IMR-4227, both powders marked "made in Australia". So the 2 original IMR powders will cease to exist. The powder that Hodgdon has been selling as H4198 is ADI's AR2207 and H4227 is ADI's AR2205, have been all along, apparently. This change was confirmed by Jackfish at MO by phone yesterday with Hodgdon. The details of how they deal with IMR-4198 and IMR-4227 load data has to be worked out yet.
 
The man that posted that told me this:
 
Someone sure doesn't know what the heck they're talking about. I posted
that same statement by VanDenburg on the MarlinOwners.com Bigbore forum,
there's a thread there on H4198 and IMR4198. Mac11700 called Hodgdon a
couple days ago and talked to Ron, he told Mac that H4227 and IMR-4227
are the same powders!!!! Who knows what the heck it going on there. I
guess when it happens later this year, we'll know the truth, until then
it's anyone's guess!!
 
Can anyone shed light on this issue, as I may want to stalk up?
The reply is thus:
The product name H 4227 has been discontinued. All future lots of IMR 4227 will be manufactured by ADI in Australia. It will look about the same as the old IMR 4227 but will have the advantage of being unaffected by changes in temperature like the Hodgdon line of Extruded Powders.
 
Within the next year or so ADI will also begin manufacturing IMR 4198. It of course will also be unaffected by changes in temperature. To the best of my knowledge H4198 in it's current form will continue in the Hodgdon Line.
 
Mike Daly
Customer Satisfaction Manager
Hodgdon Powder Company/ IMR Powder Company

I hope this helps

Happy shooting
ZZTOP

[quickdtoo]

Here are the replies I got from Dave Campbell at Hodgdon...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=87410

[Lloyd Smale]

dont know anything about all of this but i know for a fact imr and hod. 4227 are not the same powder

[quickdtoo]

dont know anything about all of this but i know for a fact imr and hod. 4227 are not the same powder

Not for long!!

Tim

[ricciardelli]

The variation in the "old" H-4227 and IMR-4227 was minimal, about as much as you would find in different lots of either powder.

As for the 4198 powders, I have never seen any difference in them.

So what's the big deal?

[Lloyd Smale]

not from my experience. Ive got lots of load data with both in many different hadguns and allmost allways the hogdons has out shot the imr. I just bought two 8 lb kegs of h4227 hopefully it will last a couple years.

The variation in the "old" H-4227 and IMR-4227 was minimal, about as much as you would find in different lots of either powder.

As for the 4198 powders, I have never seen any difference in them.

So what's the big deal?

[ricciardelli]

"not from my experience. Ive got lots of load data with both in many different hadguns and allmost allways the hogdons has out shot the imr. I just bought two 8 lb kegs of h4227 hopefully it will last a couple years."

Well, "...from my experience...", in which one or the other 4227 powders ended-up being my powder of choice in 37 loadings, IMR accounted for 19 and H accounted for 18.

Now...that looks pretty damn close to me...

IMR-4227
RIFLE
.17 Mach IV, 22 grain bullet
.218 Bee, 53 grain bullet
2R Lovell, 45 grain bullet
2R Lovell, 55 grain bullet
.22 Carbine, 45 grain bullet
.256 Winchester, 75 grain bullet
.35 Winchester SL, 180 grain bullet
.38-40 Winchester, 155 grain bullet
.38-40 Winchester, 180 grain bullet
.411 JDJ, 210 grain bullet
HANDGUN
.22 Jet, 55 grain bullet
.22 Jet, 60 grain bullet
.22 Hornet, 50 grain bullet
.22 K-Hornet, 40 grain bullet
.22 K-Hornet, 45 grain bullet
.221 Fireball, 35 grain bullet
.222 Remington, 40 grain bullet
.357 Maximum, 146 to 150 grain bullets
.44 Special, 200 grain bullet

H-4227
RIFLE
.221 Fireball, 35 grain bullet
.221 Fireball, 40 grain bullet
.256 Winchester, 87 grain bullet
.44 Magnum, 240 grain bullet
.44 Magnum. 280 grain bullet
HANDGUN
.17 Mach III, 20 grain bullet
.22 K-Hornet, 55 grain bullet
.221 Fireball, 40 grain bullet
.30 Carbine, 77 grain bullet
.30-357 Paxton, 110 grain bullet
.357 Herrett, 110 grain bullet
.357 Herrett, 125 grain bullet
.357 Herrett, 150 grain bullet
.357 Herrett, 158 grain bullet
.357 Maximum, 110 grain bullet
.38 Special, 180 grain bullet
.44 Special, 210 grain bullet
.445 Super Mag, 225 grain bullet