Author Topic: If I knew then what I know now (Read 1309 times)

tvc15 · « **on:** March 02, 2006, 10:33:31 AM »

I am very new to reloading. (100 rounds) I wonder what you do now in you process that you wished you did when you first started? Mabey this will save me the agony. thanks, tvc15

Questor · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2006, 10:55:28 AM »

I have one major regret: I tried bullet casting. It was a waste of time and money for me.

There are a few minor regrets, like waiting so long to get a progressive press for loading 45ACPs, buying an intertial bullet puller that I never use, and buying a case trimmer that I never use. Then there is the Lyman reloading manual I wasted my money on-- I don't know where they got their velocity figures but they don't match the real world. Lee equipment has been a problem for me, so I quit using it.

More constructively, the one thing I don't regret is getting and reading a few really good manuals.

Something I've learned is that if a modern gun isn't shooting reasonably close to your accuracy goal with any reasonable load, then there's something wrong with the gun and you're better off not wasting your time tinkering with different powders and bullets.

Having a chronograph is a very good thing, even if you don't use it often. I dust mine off maybe twice or three times a year, but it's worth having.

Finally, quality equipment is the way to go if you're in it for the long run. You soon forget the expense, and you don't have the frustrations that come with junk equipment. In my case, the cheapest equipment has turned out to be the most expensive in the long run: I ended up paying to replace it and also paying to correct problems caused by it.

Questor · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2006, 11:00:04 AM »

I have one major regret: I tried bullet casting. It was a waste of time and money for me.

There are a few minor regrets, like waiting so long to get a progressive press for loading 45ACPs, buying an intertial bullet puller that I never use, and buying a case trimmer that I never use. Then there is the Lyman reloading manual I wasted my money on-- I don't know where they got their velocity figures but they don't match the real world. Lee equipment has been a problem for me, so I quit using it.

More constructively, the one thing I don't regret is getting and reading a few really good manuals.

Something I've learned is that if a modern gun isn't shooting reasonably close to your accuracy goal with any reasonable load, then there's something wrong with the gun and you're better off not wasting your time tinkering with different powders and bullets.

Having a chronograph is a very good thing, even if you don't use it often. I dust mine off maybe twice or three times a year, but it's worth having.

Finally, quality equipment is the way to go if you're in it for the long run. You soon forget the expense, and you don't have the frustrations that come with junk equipment. In my case, the cheapest equipment has turned out to be the most expensive in the long run: I ended up paying to replace it and also paying to correct problems caused by it.

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2006, 05:43:57 PM »

Questor covered most of my thoughts.

Buy quality equipment to start with because you'll be doing it anyway if you ever get serious with your handloading.

Some may disagree, but I have found this to be very helpfull with load development. If a handgun won't shoot at least reasonably good with Hornady XTP's then it most likely won't shoot at all, and the same stands true with Sierra bullets in rifles. You may find more accurate loads with various other brands/styles, but if a gun doesn't shoot at least "pretty decent" with Hornady(handgun), or Sierra(rifle), it's most likely the gun or scope.

I also second Questor on the LEE equipment. With the exception of the Auto-Prime, and their dies, every single LEE product I've ever used has been very poor quality, and a big disappointment for me. You don't have to spend a fortune, but generally with handloading, you really do get what you pay for.

As far as a chronograph, I personally think every handloader should own one. Of all the equipment you can buy, it's the most important tool as far as turning your guesswork into reality.

steve4102 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2006, 04:06:51 AM »

Quote

Buy quality equipment to start with because you'll be doing it anyway if you ever get serious with your handloading.

Jerry says it all!

I also wish I had purchased the Stoney Point Head and Shoulder Gauge right from the start. It is a great tool and I can't see how I ran for so long without it.

I learned not to take a ton of resized brass and "Get Them Ready" for load development in the spring by priming the whole bunch with the same primers.

I learned to buy smaller amounts of different brands of brass for load development , instead of one huge amount by one manufacturer only to find out I made the wrong choice.

I also wish that I kept better records in the past. My record keeping for load data now is well organized and it easy to find what I am looking for. My old data from when I started reloading is a mess.

Steve P · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2006, 07:18:25 AM »

I have had a lot of equipment in my loading room. I wish I would not have spent sooooo much money on things that didn't work. I wish I would have purchased right the first time so I didn't have to do it over. There are ways to do it economically when you get started so you don't have a big cash outflow up front, but then you need to get quality equipment.

I purchased the Lee priming tool probably 30 years ago. I still have it and it works great. It is sitting beside it's partner. I have two, one for large and one for small primers.

My first press was/is an RCBS single stage. It is still set up in my reloading room and is still used very often. It was well worth the $60 I paid for it and the items it came with.

I bought a red progressive press and ended up getting rid of it after a few years of use. It never ever worked right, but I did get it to load. I now have two blue progressive presses on the bench and another on the way. They have been well worth the price. (Dillon)

I tried a couple brands of cheaper dies. They seemed to work good, until I got into tailoring hunting loads and shooting competition. I soon found out my $35 die sets were so much better than the $19 ones. Most of my dies now come out of boxes that could be any one of several shades of green. (RCBS/Redding)

I have had several different kinds and types of powder measures. My original Lyman is the best. The Lyman little dandy worked great when I first started loading pistol ammo. You just changed the bushing to change powder charges. Hop it from one empty brass in the tray to the next and you could charge 50 cases in the matter of a minute or two. My new Lyman electric trickler was too long in coming. I should have purchased one of these years ago for extruded powders. Well worth the $219 I paid.

I started deburring case mouths and primer flash holes with hand tools. Still have those tools and still use them sometimes. A buddy of mine told me about this new (at that time 30 years ago) electric pencil sharpener from radio shack. Used 2 C cell batteries. You could take out the cutter, cut off the base, and it fit perfect in a 20 guage shot shell primer pocket. Cut off the shell about half way down and that big fat deburring tool fit perfect. Wow, electric deburring tool! Just push down on the deburring tool and it came on. zzzzzz and you were done. Then along came the RCBS Trimmate. Wow, all of those hand tools screw right on. No more batteries. Plug it in and go.

I still have the RCBS trimmer I borrowed from Dad about 15 years ago (he has never asked for it back...hmmmm). I wore out two of the gizmo I purchased to run it with electric screwdrivers and drills. Still works good by hand if only loading 20 or 50 rounds. Found this great Lyman electric trimmer on a thing called EBay. Wow, new cutting head and it works great. Can do several hundred brass an hour. Well worth the price. Also have a few trimmers made by Lee. Another great idea that works. (Too bad most of the others don't.)

I have two tumbers to clean the brass. One Lyman, and one from Midway. I have put on the larger Lyman bowl and change the media periodically. They have worked great. I just wish I would have purchased that Midway brass/media seperator a few years sooner. Sure saves a lot of time getting the brass out of the media or the media out of the brass.

I have a desk light over the press I am working with. I have it set so the light shines down in the cases. Works great to check powder level on some cases.

I load in a room by myself and have a set pattern. I never prime before I am ready to load. I never leave a charged case sitting without seating the bullet. I always make sure I have completely loaded all I have started and dump the unused powder back into the correct can. Then put the can away.

There is so much more.....

Steve

Don Fischer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2006, 07:39:25 AM »

Hey Steve P, you sure you wouldn't buy all that junk again? For myself, I've got stuff I'd never use. One time I bought a 25 Sooper size die, had no idea what a 25 Sooper was but just in case..........Most guy's I've known have been,,,,,,,,,,,,junk-a-holics! Gotta good deal on primer's once. Now at last count, I've got over 30K! I've got a stock pile of Herter, yes Herter, 22 and 25 cal bullet's you wouldn't believe. I've got a suitcase full of Super Ballistite, what do you do with that? I use it now and again in my 32 long. :yeah: :roll:

hunt127588 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2006, 07:59:11 AM »

Great Info!!! Keep it coming....I'm enjoying this thread. Been thinking about going with a Forster Co-Ax or Dillon 550B. This thread is keeping it interesting.

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2006, 09:23:54 AM »

hunt127588:

You may want to refine your requirements a bit. The Forster and the Dillon are at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to number of rounds per hour loaded.

Get the co-ax if you're a hopeless accuracy geek who loads his own cartridges three at a time while at the range.

Idaho_Hick · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2006, 09:28:27 AM »

Those little load books are fantastically handy - you can compare manuals/powder manufacturers with the turn of a page. For seven dollars you get most of the published load data out there, including cast bullets.

Questor · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2006, 09:43:02 AM »

hunt127588:

You may want to refine your requirements a bit. The Forster and the Dillon are at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to number of rounds per hour loaded.

Get the co-ax if you're a hopeless accuracy geek who loads his own cartridges three at a time while at the range.

ricciardelli · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2006, 05:31:16 PM »

"If I knew then what I know now"

Then I wouldn't have learned a damn thing in the past 45 years...and I would have missed out on all the fun and excitement and experimentation.

How disgusting!

Castaway · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2006, 12:23:05 AM »

If loading pistol cartridges without a progressive press, one itme I wouldn't want to be without would be the Lee Auto Disk powder dispenser. Saves two steps, bells the case and drops very consistent, repeatable powder charges.

hunt127588 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 04, 2006, 04:00:06 AM »

Quote from: Questor

hunt127588:

You may want to refine your requirements a bit. The Forster and the Dillon are at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to number of rounds per hour loaded.

Get the co-ax if you're a hopeless accuracy geek who loads his own cartridges three at a time while at the range.

Questor,
I realize this....I want something load accurate rounds for rifle but also would like something to crank out pistol rounds when the desire occurs. Right now, I'm shooting more rifle than pistol. However, there was a time in the past where pistol shooting was what I enjoyed. The concern about buying the Dillon is how much runout will be created and how accurate can I throw a charge as opposed to weighing them. This guy at http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davidawilson/LongRange/LR_Handloading.htm
does a great job at show how to create accurate rounds with a 550. His entire site is http://www.ltrdavid.net.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #14 on:** March 04, 2006, 03:39:26 PM »

I don't know. I do some things different now and some things I don't do that I used to but all in all, its been a learning process. Some things you have to try for yourself no matter what somebody tells you. Some of it fits your "style" of reloading and some doesn't. But you've go to try it.
For example, you have worked up a good load for your xxx. Good? hell it's excellent. And you're bragging about it at the range. So someone sez, "have you tried xyz powder (bullet, primer, whathaveyou)? Its a real group tightener." So off you go to give it a try.

Questor · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2006, 06:41:38 AM »

hunt127588:

A lot of match rifle shooters use the Dillon machines to make competition rifle rounds. The U.S. Palma team was doing it for a while. I don't know if they still do. Unless you're into benchrest shooting, or just like cranking them out one at a time, a good progressive will probably be adequate. My own ammo making is patterned after what our bullseye champs use: a Dillon 550 or 650. Their ammo is super accurate and so is mine (of course, that's handgun ammo.)

I live in an area where a lot of guys go prairie dog hunting and they make their ammo during winter. They typically load .223 or 22-250 and they get super results with their Dillon machines, at least as good as they get with a single stage press.

I wouldn't worry about it unless your skills are so superb that the little bit of refinement you get from a co-ax press actually buys you something.

The biggest issue is that when you set up a progressive press, it's more of a hassle to convert it to another caliber, especially if the primer size is different. I see progressive presses as useful only for loading volume. I still use a single stage for everything except 45ACP.

longwinters · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2006, 08:01:00 AM »

Quote from: ricciardelli

"If I knew then what I know now"

Then I wouldn't have learned a damn thing in the past 45 years...and I would have missed out on all the fun and excitement and experimentation.

How disgusting!

This guy has it right, although I would like to learn without having spent all that money. That being said, I would have bought everything individually instead of going the "kit" route and just paid out at the beginning what I have since replaced several items with.

Long

Questor · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2006, 02:47:21 PM »

Let's see. If I knew then what I know now... I probably wouldn't have gotten married before age 70.

one$$shot · « **Reply #18 on:** March 07, 2006, 11:53:24 PM »

It reminds me of some advice I got from an old timer when I was a kid. I wanted to get started bass fishing.

The old timer said "Go down to the bait and tackle shop and buy at least one of everything...you'll eventually end up with it all anyway!".

Needless to say I caught his drift immediately and bought exactly what I needed as I went along. I stayed away from "kits". I found out little by little that one particular company made a given gismo that I liked while yet another company made something else I needed that I liked better. Buy only what you need.

I think it's almost impossible to get exactly what you want/need over night. It all evolves as you go along. If you aren't careful you'll end up with six or more of each item. Using only one of the six (the one you like best) and the rest will lay around for the next twenty years or so until you either lose them, give them away or "put them someplace safe" where they'll never be seen again. :grin:

kyote · « **Reply #19 on:** March 08, 2006, 02:49:00 AM »

would have bought more of every thing..was a lot cheaper then..

Dirty Tiger · « **Reply #20 on:** March 08, 2006, 08:27:07 AM »

This is a good thread.

I'm still debating if I wanna start bullet casting or not.....shooting and reloading are not my only pursuits.

Swamp Yankee · « **Reply #21 on:** March 08, 2006, 08:37:47 AM »

I would have bought just one real good loading manual and bought load books for each caliber instead of buying everyones loading manuals.

longwinters · « **Reply #22 on:** March 08, 2006, 11:40:50 AM »

Yey, but all those reloading manuals sure do look impressive on the shelf :lol:

Long

nofun1 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 08, 2006, 05:17:51 PM »

Keep meticulous records on every aspect. Label your targets with all compnants listed. Use a Chronograph and record speeds on your target.

JD11 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2006, 05:41:54 AM »

Quote

If loading pistol cartridges without a progressive press, one itme I wouldn't want to be without would be the Lee Auto Disk powder dispenser. Saves two steps, bells the case and drops very consistent, repeatable powder charges.

I'm with Castaway on this one. The items I wish I'd bought years ago is my Lee turret press and the Lee Auto Disc. Everytime I intermitently double check the dispenser against actual scales it's right on the money. I've had no problem with the turret press either, including their 45LC and newly purchased 44Mag dies. I'm sure I'd like a Dillion better, but for the price, I think the Lee is a terrific bargain and good quality.

JBMauser · « **Reply #25 on:** March 15, 2006, 03:29:25 PM »

Well, I had bought a set of Pacific .45LC dies that were not carbide. I was never happy. picked up a set of Lee .45LC carbide dies and I am well pleased. I sold the Pacific dies on ebay where I had bought them. I like to hand prime my brass and so the Lee turret press is used as a two stage but then again it works. I need to put a rod into the top block and then just lever it back and forth for power fill and bullet seat. I have three powder measures, two RCBS with the large and small adjustment column and the lyman powder measure. I find I use the lyman measure for everything with it's three adjustments. I have a RCBS electronic scale and I find it to be a source of concern more than confidence. JB

lilabner · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2006, 08:42:25 AM »

It would have saved a lot of trouble if I'd started out using one of the spray wax case lubes. I hate the sticky stuff that dimples cases if you overdose. About Lee equipment: When I read complaints about Lee quality, I marvel. I've loaded with Lee dies for years and have worked up sub MOA loads for quite a few rifles. Maybe Lee quality control ain't so hot and I've just been lucky to get the good dies? I don't know. Their hand priming tool is a classic and all I ever use. Their case length cutter also works like a charm. I don't know about their loaders. I bought a Rock Chucker early in the game and it has done the job. Avoid presses that aren't the "O" configuration - too much flex.

DaveinOakwoodGA · « **Reply #27 on:** March 18, 2006, 03:10:59 PM »

Several items come to mind. I should note, some of the things I could not have changed, because the product I would buy now did not exist then. But here's my list:

1. Before I made any purchase decisions, I'd figure out exactly what type of shooting I was going to reload for and only buy products that enhanced my needs. For the rest of this list, I'm going to do just that as an example. I load for three types of shooting: high power rifle, action pistol and milsurp plinking for fun/accuracy improvement.

2. I wouldn't buy a Redding powder scale. I'd spend the extra money and get the RCBS 110 measure. It's about the best manual powder measure available today. Excellent adjustments, durable and accurate. It's expensive, yes, but as much as I use a measure to check my loads and to set my measures, I'd certainly want the best one available and I sincerely believe it is.

3. I wouldn't buy an RCBS Partner press single stage. Instead, today I would buy a Lee Classic Cast press. Excellent press, better than the used Rock Chucker I placed with it. The Rock Chucker was good, but for the money saved, I could sell the Rock Chucker, pay for the LEE and have money left over for other things. If the Lee had been available then and I could go back, I'd buy it.

4. I would wait a bit longer until the new case expander/powder through Case activated powder drop was available for my Hornady Lock N Load. It, I would buy again. It's a Godsend for loading large quantities of ammo quickly.

5. I would not have bought the used Lyman turret press I bought for 35 bucks. Instead, I would have saved my money for something more accurate.

6. I would have not bought my Redding 3BR powder measure and stand, instead, I would buy a Hornady Lock N Load powder measure with the rifle and pistol inserts and a bracket that attaches the measure to a single stage press. This would allow me to have two LnL powder measures now instead of a single stage measure I seldom use.

7. I would keep my Lee Auto prime, though I would buy two, one for each size primer and all the shell holders in the "pack."

8. I would only buy Lee dies in their most deluxe packs. The four die pistol sets that include the FCD and the rifle sets that include the neck sizing die. I would then replace any die out of the set I didn't like with another brand of die I liked better. This would save me a good bit of money I suspect, as I've moved to Lee die sets while keeping the dies out of other sets I liked.

9. I would buy a Hornady collet bullet puller right off the bat, get two collets in .223 and .30 calibers, then get an RCBS kinetics bullet puller and a Frankford Arsenal 3 piece collet set (Fits the RCBS kinetics puller) to take care of any "oddball calibers."

10. I would have gotten a Lee Classic Turret press right off the bat to take care of milsurp rifle calibers where I already have known loads set up. I would use the safety prime with it, along with my Hornady LnL powder measure. I'd buy a Lee Pro Auto Prime measure to load pistol calibers on my Hornady with the Lee expanding/powder through dies. I would not buy the Lyman expander/powder through set I bought to modify my Hornady LnL case activated powder dispsense with.

11. I would have added the Lock N Load modification to my single stage press that could take 1 1/4" dies right off the bat. I do this now with my Lee Classic Cast press and with shimming, I can move the dies from the single stage right to my LnL progressive after load development no sweat.

12. I would have bought a primer flip tray way earlier.

13. I would have bought a couple dozen Sterlite plastic bins with lids to hold brass and couple dozen six and 3 inch Akro bins to hold "work in progress" brass and bulleets way sooner.

The bottom line and most important point is, I would think about what I wanted to reload, then make purchase decisions from that standpoint. I would also ask questions about what to buy for the loading purposes I had, rather than simple "what to buy" for reloading.

Regards,

Dave

qajaq59 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 19, 2006, 12:11:22 AM »

Try to buy absolute quality even if it takes you longer to get it. Especially with the press. The little stuff comes and goes, but you're going to live with that press for a long time. Hand loading grows on you and you will likely end up doing a LOT of it, so spend the money on something that will work well and last a long time.

jack19512 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 19, 2006, 02:31:48 AM »

I'm new to reloading and so far I have 3 Lee presses. The press that came with the Lee Anniversary kit, Lee Classic Cast, and Lee Turret press. I don't regret buying any of them.

I really like my recently purchased Hornady collet bullet puller that I keep mounted in the press that came with the Anniversary kit.

I am accumulating lead in hopes of someday casting my own bullets.

I only reload for rifle calibers right now and I am very happy with the results I have obtained so far.