Author Topic: why dont people use... (Read 5769 times)

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #30 on:** March 08, 2006, 04:15:17 PM »

It's a RealPlayer file.

corbanzo · « **Reply #31 on:** March 08, 2006, 04:26:16 PM »

The BMG is a huge cartridge, but there are a few things to slow it down. I know people who hunt using them, they pick their spot up on a ridge, where they can see an expanse of land, set up a bi-pod. They don't have to hike anywhere else, or stalk game. They use a .50 with a muzzle break, and a deccelerator shoulder pad. And the pads they make these days... suck up a lot. It's not your normal spot and stalk... but it is a good way to hunt. If you guys want to check out what a .50 can do, this site is pretty dang cool.

www.dogbegone.com

NONYA · « **Reply #32 on:** March 08, 2006, 05:04:29 PM »

siting in one spot with a 50bmg waiting for an animal to come within a mile isnt hunting,sorry its not hunting at all.

msorenso · « **Reply #33 on:** March 09, 2006, 05:23:57 AM »

Then I guess sitting in a tree stand isn't hunt either, What the difference if is one way or the other. I have yet to see a deer that I just walk up on and shoot while it waits for me to do so. all of the the deer I have shot have bben on the run from 80 to 200 yrds. Whats the difference if you do it with a 270 or a 50bmg. Yes it insane but not to many people own 50 bmgs so I doubt we really need to worry about it.

msorenso · « **Reply #34 on:** March 09, 2006, 05:52:20 AM »

Smoking Joe and corbanzo,
Thank you for sharing those video links they were fun to watch between my midterm finals! I played them for a couple of classmated they got a kick out of it!

NONYA · « **Reply #35 on:** March 09, 2006, 06:54:49 AM »

I dont sit in a tree stand either but there is still no comaparison,in a tree stand you still have to cover your scent,use cammo ect,ect,when you plan on shooting an animal with a rifle that is designed to shoot a mile and more you dont have to use any hunting skills whatsoever,if you thin that is hunting you have a very sad idea of what hunting really is.

msorenso · « **Reply #36 on:** March 10, 2006, 07:53:01 AM »

I agree its a liitle overkill but if you are shooting a deer at 1000 + yards with a 50 cal I am sure its not as esay as it my sound. But since there are very few that do hunt with them it is no worry.I would rather that then all the poaching that goes on.. If you really want to get down to the nuts and bolts of using easy kill weapons all guns would qualify.

field989 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 10, 2006, 04:54:23 PM »

I agree with you msorenso even though it kinda would take out some of the excitement of getting close to a wild animal and trying to be quiet.

that would be sorta challenging shooting a animal at 1000 yards :grin:

I read on this one website where this guy had a 4 bore and went to africa to hunt with it, I think it said it weighed over 20 lbs :lol: thats kinda what sparked this discussion :grin:

Don Fischer · « **Reply #38 on:** March 11, 2006, 04:14:25 AM »

Huh, seem's like most people do have a line they don't think should be crossed.No matter how absurbed they own may be viewed.

Just a thought. If someone made a 50BMG in a nice sporter 6 1/2 lb rifle, say a Remington Model 7 w/ 18 1/2" barrel, put one of those special pads on it, sling swivels and came with a first class 3x9 scope, think anyone would buy one? I'd almost bet someone would and that someone would actually try shooting it!

Never shot one and have no desire to.

nomosendero · « **Reply #39 on:** March 11, 2006, 05:19:07 AM »

Yea, SOMEONE would buy one just as thousands bought pet rocks &
many bought cow chips & some get their political leanings from Hollywood
Actors which to me says there are alot of idiots out there, but back to the
subject, no I plan on shooting one hopefully soon, but only at a range &
not to hunt with at all.

corbanzo · « **Reply #40 on:** March 12, 2006, 08:51:43 AM »

You can't just say that it isn't hunting. You have to use skills, just as you do in spot and stalk. You have to know your location, the movement of game, and be skillful in aiming, and have pacience. Many people hunt over bait, in a treestand, or by a game trail, and play the waiting game. I could easily say that spot and stalk isn't hunting, because you aren't challenging yourself on the shot, you are trying to get the closest and easiest shot. One could also say that using a scope isn't hunting, because it isn't you seeing the game, its the magnification that gets you the shot. All of these claims are... well, stupid. Heck, I have some vegetarian friends that say I shouldn't use a gun when bear hunting, cause its an unfair advantage :-D :-D :-D See me going after a blackie without my .30-06 and my .454 for backup.... not gonna happen.

NONYA · « **Reply #41 on:** March 12, 2006, 11:26:53 AM »

You can call hitting a deer with your truck hunting if you want but nobody i hunt with would ever call make 1 mile shots with an anti vehicle round hunting,I eat what i kill and i wouldnt consider using a caliber that will bruise 3/4 of the meat.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #42 on:** March 12, 2006, 02:24:39 PM »

I don't know. If someone practices at one mile and can place their shot's well it should be OK. I mean I think I read that the 50BMG has 2700 fps, someone correct me if I'm wrong, at the muzzle. If it's still going 1200 fps at 1760 yards, it'll only have 2398.7205 ft lbs of energy remaining. That's less than say....a.... 7mm mag with a 160 gr at the muzzle. Shouldn't tear up to much meat. Being it's probally a solid bullet it will probally penetrate well also. :roll:

msorenso · « **Reply #43 on:** March 14, 2006, 02:46:18 AM »

NONYA,
Could you explain how varmit hunting with a 22-250,223, 243 is any different than a 50 on deer at a 1000yrds +. Since you want to get so technical on what is a fair and unfair advantege than any firearm wouldn't be sporting.. and definatly not sporting with a scope, premium expansion bullets... I have yet to find it too challenging to take deer with a 270 @ 80 to 200yrds all on a full run. Couple were taken with open sites as well, and I am far from a champion shooter...

Redhawk could you explain shooting a 50 at 1000, 2000yards??

Mac11700 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 14, 2006, 04:25:18 AM »

Shooting at game animals inside 500 yards as compared to 1750..then alluding the are both the same is wrong...No..they aren't the same..no..it doesn't matter that both have practiced..no..it doesn't matter what type of ammo is used....Spot & stalk techniques as most commonly employed by the vast majority of Hunters..is to see the animal....get to a vantage point undetected and as close to the animal as possible for a clean kill...Granted..there are some folks who think nothing of setting a 50 BMG up on a tripod and shooting at game animals 1000-2000 yards away..and they want to be called hunters..they aren't...to me....Some here would say the same thing to a person who has worked his butt off stalking a antelope or mule deer and the closest he can get is 400-500 yards...and the last 100 yards he's benn crawling on his hands and knees to get into position..they would say he's shooting too far as well..that it's not within some MPBR of a scope of theirs..so it would un-ethical for that hunter to take the shot... to them.... To me...there is a major difference between working to get closer and not being able too..than setting up a deliberatly shooting at that distance at a game animal..and no..I am not talking about varmint shooting either..I'm talking about game animals like deer,antelope,elk,caribo,moose....I don't know of any guides that would allow shooting at animals at 1000-2000 yards with a 50 BMG..I'm sure there is a few..but it certainly doesn't fall under any "Fair Chase" definitions I know of..and it isn't something I would do anyway even given the chance..unless it were going after prarie dogs or other type vermin..I wouldn't mind trying that...but never on game animals ...I for one agree with what Saxton Pope said..." The true hunter counts his achievement in propotion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.. " I don't consider varmints in the same way as I do other animals..but..that is just my way of thinking...

Perhaps a few here would benifit from reading what is on this web site..we are all different..and have different perspectives and what we consider to be fair chase and ethical...http://www.huntfairchase.com/

Mac

msorenso · « **Reply #45 on:** March 14, 2006, 04:43:56 AM »

I am not saying the 50bmg isn't a little crazy would I do it YES, just one though! But don't give me the b- about for varmit it is ok but for deer its different.. Its just that you have a biased opinion of how you look at it.. Who hasn't crawled to get that better shot like to see you tote around a 50 too.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 14, 2006, 05:22:29 AM »

Quote from: msorenso

Redhawk could you explain shooting a 50 at 1000, 2000yards??

I was never a 1000 or 2000 yards shooter. But if you want specifics on 1000 and 2000 yards shooting the best place to go is here.

http://biggerhammer.net/barrett/wwwboard/

http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/50cal/index.pl?noframes;#256

Mac11700 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:02:09 AM »

Quote from: msorenso

I am not saying the 50bmg isn't a little crazy would I do it YES, just one though! But don't give me the b- about for varmit it is ok but for deer its different.. Its just that you have a biased opinion of how you look at it.. Who hasn't crawled to get that better shot like to see you tote around a 50 too.

First off..big game hunting and varmint hunting are 2 totally different sports..each with different needs and there are major differences between the 2.....and what I am trying to say is everyone has their on perception on what is " Fair Chase"...and I am not being biased on that....vermin are vermin..big game animals are different..various types of vermin are taken differently than in spoting and stalking deer..some are taken from a bench rest set up specificlly for this..and is gennerally an accepted method of dispatching them..If you want to hunt prarie dogs by crawling on your hands and knees...feel free..deer are sometimes shot in this manner as well I know..it has been pointed out..to those who choose to shoot deer this way...it is their choice to do so....it doesn't make either one un-ethical...simply different ...

I can accept the fact we are all different and have differing opinions..what I cannot accept is for someone to call me unethical when I have worked my butt off to get within range of a deer or antelope because of some magical yardarge cut-off they have imposed on themselves..because it doesn't jive with the way they shoot...that is totally pure and simple BS..

Setting up a 50 BMG on a tri-pod and shooting at game animals at 2000 yards...is not in the same league as what I discribed...and no..I'm not biased about feeling they aren't true hunters,I can see both sides to this. To me they aren't true hunters..but I'm not going to judge them solely on my personal feelings about it..providing they aren't continually wounding and wasting any big game animal....and to make a stalk as I discribed carrying a 35-50 lb 50 BMG to make a 500 yard shot on a deer isn't something I need or want to do..I have much lighter rifles that work better than a 50 BMG will at this yardage..Now...if you want to..that's is entirely up to you....because your the one lugging it and you'll be the one pulling the trigger...and responsa ble for everything that comes after...Do you understand...it is your choice to do this..not mine...not anyone elses..We all hunt differently,and have different beliefs of what hunting means to us....and there are many different ways to doing it..but..it is the end result that truely matters..not the method or means of delivery that should be the most important......

I won't judge you for your choice of weapons or method of shooting...as long as you don't judge mine...It would be an entirely different matter if either of us continually waste game animals thru our actions and choices..not only would this be un-lawfull..but un-ethical as well..and as too wasting vermin..if I find a program to take the excess vermin I shoot like those that take all the extra deer to help feed the hungry..I'll be glad to change my shooting habits and choice of bullets...and how I feel about them...

Mac

Don Fischer · « **Reply #48 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:24:23 AM »

This is great. All that is proved here is that at some absurbed range, there are people that think you have stepped over the line ethically. But when pressed, come up with the I won't judge you if you won't judge me line. But still, they are willing to get in the fray in the first place. That's probally because their own ethical values have been assulted, by far to much. I had a PM from Mac and if I am to believe what he said, I've no reason not to, the guy is really a better shot than probally 90%, or more, of the people on this site. What's different is that even tho he has the ability to shoot very, very well at ranges other's think nothing of shooting at, he limits his own GAME shooting to much less range.

Carefull Mac, your making a strong statement about ethics. Not many people are willing to go there!

victorcharlie · « **Reply #49 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:55:11 AM »

Ethical hunting or fishing.........really depends on how hungry you and your family are.......remember, that's what got Robin Hood in trouble.....shooting the kings deer.........

Anyone think there is no hunger in America?

Every man has his own standard as to morals and ethics.........Legality is another issue......and usually reflects the standard set by the community. It's getting increasingly difficult to remain "correct" in the law.....just about the time a fellow gets it all figured out, another 10 pages of game laws are added to the hunting guide.

So, soon we'll all be criminals.........

NONYA · « **Reply #50 on:** March 14, 2006, 11:13:31 AM »

You could park a truck on top of our road and shoot elk accross the canyon with a 50 all day,what fun would that be?And dont try to tell me its a challange BS!Once you know that rifle and use a range finder its just a shot,no HUNTING involved.Now get out of that truck and make a run down this side and up the other trying to get within 300 yards of those same elk before it gets dark and you have been on a hunt.There is no comparison and if you dont see that you have a serious misunderstanding of what hunting is all about.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #51 on:** March 14, 2006, 12:07:02 PM »

Everyone can argue ethics all day long, it is just as opinionated as religion and politics. People are just not all going to have the same level of what they think ethical hunting is. If you hunt in any in closed area, no matter if it is 15,000 acre's or 100,000 acre's, to some it is not fair chase and there for unethical. :roll:

PETA loves these arguments among hunter, we are doing there dirty work for them, while they just sit back and reap the benefits of not having to get involved.

nasem · « **Reply #52 on:** March 14, 2006, 12:45:27 PM »

while we are on the subject of .50 BMG hunting....

why not use 20mm to hunt too ? I mean thats another cannon...

wait.... hold on, thats not powerfull enough, why not buy a rocket-launcher, scope it with a $3000 scope, and shoot rockets at deer, you woun't have much to eat BUT, thats a hunt.......

how about a us-military tank ? those 20 million dollar tanks would make an EXCELLENT hunting "firearm"

while we are at it, how about an F-18 with a 20mm gatlin-gun and rockets, you sure would take out alot of "game" with that

wait a min, how about an atomic bomb ? YOU WILL SURE kill more than just deer when you set one off.....plenty of "hunts" there.....

I think I just pissed off alot of people with this post lol

NONYA · « **Reply #53 on:** March 14, 2006, 03:47:14 PM »

Good point Nasam,if we are doing petas "dirty work" for them I dont understand where theyare coming from,they dont give a damn if you use a .50 bmg or a recurve bow.I dont care if people want to shoot game this way and call it hunting but I sure as hell dont want it going on in my state,if we as hunters cant set some standard of ethics among our selves who will?Well get a bunch of jerkoffs out in the field with thier .50 bmgs and the next thing you know we will have laws redtricting us to firearms under .50,that means .50 and .52 muzzleloaders as well.Its rediculous acts like this that draw negative attention to our SPORT,if anyone is doing petas work for them its a nimrod settingt up a .50 bmg to shoot game a mile away and making us all look like nimrods,think about it.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #54 on:** March 14, 2006, 05:21:14 PM »

I doubt there's anyway to prove it but, I'd bet a dollar to a sugar cookie that fewer people will run out and buy a 50 BMG as a result of this discussion than will run out and buy some super 25, 7mm mag or 30 mag to shoot at the ranges some people are premoting shooting game at. That being so, I'll bet more animals will be wounded and left with the smaller calibers shooting a 500 yds and under than with the 50 BMG shooting at 500 yds and over.

I think the whole issue of long range shooting get's way overplayed and ends up encouraging someone that really needs to learn to shoot period, into shooting at 450 or 500 yds. without a doubt, many people can do some extrodinary thing's with a rifle but throwing it out for all to hear, including the incompetent, meerly gets even more animals wounded.

You look thru various sites like this one, and people ask legit questions, some that seem silly sometimes and what do they get hit with? In this site recently, I've heard that the 300 magnum doesn't recoil that bad, the 7mm Rem Mag is good to 600 yds, the 25-06 is acceptable for elk to 450# ect,ect,ect.

I think this discussion started with something like has anyone killed a deer with a 50 BMG. Wasn't even a question asking an opinion on it's use to 2000 yds. Sure drug out those that prefer to take the attitude that "you don't judge me and I won't judge you." All of a sudden the absurd is thrown out there and some people who has the judge me not attitude become real real critical. I guess we all have a line don't we?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #55 on:** March 14, 2006, 05:30:43 PM »

NONYA, I understand where you are coming from. But I don't think there are many 50 BMG hunters out there. To me it is almost a non-issue. I have in over 30 years of hunting, I have not seen one person using a 50 BMG for hunting. I owned two 50 BMG's and never once contemplated hunting with one. The reason I got out of shooting the 50 BMG was, I did not have a place to shoot it after my range banned them. If you look at a lot of State legislator, they are proposing 50 BMG banns all over. It is just a matter of time when one of them Democraps get into office and they pass the 50 Cal ban. I don't want to see it happen, but mark my word it will.

NONYA · « **Reply #56 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:41:42 PM »

I read about a .50 cal ban I believe it was NY state,the snag that proposed it didnt even know the difference between a 50 bmg and a 50 cal muzzleloader when she wrote it,I believe it was tossed.BTW Don why dont you just come out and clarify for those who dont already know that you are right and we are all wrong,regardless of the topic,I have figured it out on my own but some may need clarification.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #57 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:11:12 PM »

Quote from: Don Fischer

This is great. All that is proved here is that at some absurbed range, there are people that think you have stepped over the line ethically. But when pressed, come up with the I won't judge you if you won't judge me line. But still, they are willing to get in the fray in the first place. That's probally because their own ethical values have been assulted, by far to much. I had a PM from Mac and if I am to believe what he said, I've no reason not to, the guy is really a better shot than probally 90%, or more, of the people on this site. What's different is that even tho he has the ability to shoot very, very well at ranges other's think nothing of shooting at, he limits his own GAME shooting to much less range.

Carefull Mac, your making a strong statement about ethics. Not many people are willing to go there!

Don:

I've been at this hunting game for a long time..I know plenty of people that can shoot rings around what I can do on my best day..Yes..I am a very good shot..and yes..I do practice as often as I possibly can..with all my rifles..but...better than 90% here...I sincerly doubt it..but better than some I'm sure..I'm not arguing one way or another against what you wish to shoot..or Nonya..or the guys lugging a 50 caliber around..I could really care less what they are shooting...what I do care about is the precautions they have taken BEFORE they pull the trigger..and after they make the shot..you see..I know those guys are in the minority..heck..they don't even make a bump in the minority of long range shooters..and if they indiscriminatly pull the trigger..and someone gets hurt..well..they are the ones responsable..and they are the ones that should be punished.. punished for something they did...not something they might do....and I feel we shouldn't punish those who want to own and shoot the 50's..and when we start setting limits on what we as shooters can or can't use..then I feel this is a prime example of when the Feds will step in..just like they are doing in a few states already..and put some kind of ban on them...sorry..no thank you..I'm not ever going down this road..Heck...I would never use a 50 BMG on anything really....first off..to me..they aren't any fun to shoot...been there..done that..and I don't like nose bleeds from the concusion..and secondly..they cost to durn much for my taste...It's fun to think about it..but I just can't see it happening at anytime soon.....I just don't think anyone has a "Right" to setting limit or restriction on someone else shoots or at what ranges they elect to shoot from...just because they don't like what the person is using..or because someone might deciede to take up long range hunting..

I'm a traditional bowhunter as well as a rifle hunter..I know full well what I go thru hunting with my recurves and longbows..very rarely will I climb up in a treestand..99% of my hunting is on the ground...I cover a lot of miles when hunting by foot...so when I say I hunt..I really do...I'm cutting tracks following rub lines and scrapes and glassing&stalking...I do the same 95% of the time when gun hunting..I'm just not comfortable sitting up in the air in a tree..or on my 16" tall ladder stand...I am also a pessimistic/optomist...I plan for the worst..and hope for the best...which is why I shoot a-lot...and at long ranges...you have to be versitale to hunt public land around here..

Mac

NONYA · « **Reply #58 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:39:58 PM »

if it wasnt for the pursuit part of hunting the sport wouldnt apeal to me in the least,if i was reduced to sitting a stand,hunting over baits,"hunting" behind a tall fence or using a weapon that kills a mile away,I would hang it up.I would never advocate taking these methods of hunting away from anyone unless i felt they were a threat to our longterm hunting heretige,some yahoo firing off a .50 bmg anti vehicle round out in the deer field with god knows what in the distance(a .50 bmg can cover far more country than a standard hunting cartridge) could pose a serious risk to bystanders and the sport.I dont want us to loose any more of the freedoms that we have.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #59 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:22:17 PM »

I agree Bro..I really do..that's why I said as long as they take the needed precautions before..and after the shot...I don't think too many folks will ever hunt with a 50 BMG..I just don't want to see anymore guns banned for any reason..most folks see no sporting purpose in them...nor do they understand what is really at stake when others start putting self imposed restrictions on any firearm...if the feds can regulate them as destructive devices..then what is next...all semi-auto's...real hunters don't need them right...then what..why bolt actions of cource...why do we need them...heck most deer are killed under 100 yards anyways...nothing a good lever gun can't handle in a 30-30 right..oppps...can't have that..they can hold to many shells...it only takes 1 shot anyways..might as well have a single shot..oppps...can't be just any single either 30-30 or less...OH NOOO..looks like all those pointy bullets have got to go now..just flat points...and while were at it..don't really need those jacketed bullets since were only shooting 100 yards or less...Durn...scratch that..can't shoot any lead bullets...durn lead poisoning..Sound farfetched???...Don't laugh..you know they won't stop till they have all the guns...and they are trying their best to do just that...and they have already tried numerous times to get this type legislation passed...Just who is playing into the anti's hand now ...

Mac