thanks,shermbob,i'll try them next week.i have 5 taurus revolvers,from 17 up to 480 first problem i have had.probably the 800 or so rounds i've pounded through it loosened it up.the one i lost was the rear one,a little slotted screw holds it on,i actually tightened it up once before but was afraid to lock tight it.never thought to check it again,my bad.thanks again,adkr