Author Topic: 7mm mag Vs 300win mag (Read 2679 times)

deerslayer15 · « **on:** March 04, 2006, 04:47:04 PM »

I was wondering if you guys could tell me the postitives and negitives of both the 7mm mag and 300win mag. I am going to buy a new rifle this summer(I know...Just can't help it). I am tore between the two...This gun will be used for whitetail(mostly) out to 300 yard, black bear, elk, and mule deer...I will be taking a trip out west to hunt with my uncle and "need" a new rifle. The magnums might be a little much for the typical deer...But means I've got more selective about the deer I shoot I would rather have the mag over the .22-250 or 30-30(lets not start disputing about the .22-250) when a big bodied buck walks out. Plus it gives me an excuse for another gun...lol

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #1 on:** March 04, 2006, 06:15:08 PM »

deerslayer15

For over 20 years my elk hunting rifle was the 7mm Rem Mag that I got shortly after moving to Colorado in 1980. It has taken its share of elk, deer and antelope and has done so with absolute authority. I only use one bullet weight, 160g, but after many years of hunting with Grand Slams I have switched to a bonded bullet, the North Fork. With the North Fork, Trophy Bonded or A-Frame there simply isnt much in North America I wouldnt hunt with this rifle. Big bears might be the exception, not because the 7mm Mag so loaded wouldnt work but because it would be a good excuse to get the .338 or .375 Ive lusted after for many years.

That said, I asked Santa for a .300 Win Mag a couple Christmases ago. It gets loaded with 180g TSX and North Fork bullets. The .300 will push a 130g to 3500fps giving it one heck of a reach for antelope. With a 220g bullet I may not need that .338 for big bears.

Both are excellent choices for western hunting. The .300 is, IMHO, a better choice for elk although the 7mm Mag has never failed me or even come close to doing so. If I were to go back in time, knowing what I know now, I would probably buy the .300 Win Mag first. Why? Because as I get older I appreciate fatter bullets more. Which is why my last elk was taken with a .45-70.

The big advantage of the 7mm Mag is reduced recoil.

Get what you like and learn to shoot it and you wont have any problems with either.

Siskiyou · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2006, 06:41:21 PM »

I went to the gunshop looking to buy a .300 Winchester Magnum, and came out with a 7MM Remington Magnum. The reason was it was in stock and it was a very good deal.

A hunting partner bought a 300 Winchester Magnum. A big man but very recoil sensitive. He had to have another hunting partner sight it in for him. After our trip to Colorado he sold it at a loss.

I am happy with the 7 Mag. but wish that I have waited a purchased a .300 Mag just to try it out. I would only purchase one with a state of the art recoil pad. The red brick butt plate on my 7 Mag is of no value. The 7 Mag is not my favorite round, I rather use a .270 Win. on deer. Light, standard bullets out of mag cause a lot of damage on deer.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 05, 2006, 01:47:46 AM »

I don't think the 300 Win Mag has much recoil at all. I have one and it is a blast to shoot. I took my Caribou in Alaska with it at 300 yards. In my opinion the 300 Mag has the advantage because of the larger bullets.

Nothing wrong with the 7mm Mag, but the 300 Win Mag gets the nod.

Danegeld · « **Reply #4 on:** March 05, 2006, 01:57:21 AM »

I'm a big fan of the 7Mag, 150grain-175grain. You can use it on just about any game in the Lower 48.

Take Care
Ben

JEFF WARD2 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 05, 2006, 03:02:12 AM »

i have used both with my encore, and i like the 300 better j.m.o.
as far as recoil i have never had a problem with either cant tell much if at all any difference in the 2
and im only 5'3 and 160 pounds...
both are good ,but i too like the fatter bullit !!
..jeff

victorcharlie · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2006, 03:42:26 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

I don't think the 300 Win Mag has much recoil at all. I have one and it is a blast to shoot. I took my Caribou in Alaska with it at 300 yards. In my opinion the 300 Mag has the advantage because of the larger bullets.
Nothing wrong with the 7mm Mag, but the 300 Win Mag gets the nod.

So......let me get this straight.......you think the 300 Win Mag doesn't have much recoil at all?

Your loosing credibility with me Redhawk1.........

azmike · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2006, 06:26:47 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

I don't think the 300 Win Mag has much recoil at all. I have one and it is a blast to shoot. I took my Caribou in Alaska with it at 300 yards. In my opinion the 300 Mag has the advantage because of the larger bullets.
Nothing wrong with the 7mm Mag, but the 300 Win Mag gets the nod.

It depends on the rifle design. My M77 MkII 7mm mag really packs a wallop, while my brother's Savage 116 in .338 win mag kicks much less. Go figure.

I'd stick with the 7mm. I can speak from experience that it is enough for elk at the ranges you describe, will kill Black bears reliably at that range as well, and is WAY overkill on whitetails. That has been my personal experience. Considering the damage one 7mm mag bullet did on my last hunting trip, I don't want to think what a 150-165 grainer in a .300 mag would have done. :eek:

If you get the 7mm, as noted before, you ought to consider sticking with the 160-175 grain bullets. The 175s are great on elk, but may not expand reliably in a deer or smaller bear, while the 140 grainers do too much damage on expansion in a whitetail, IME. The 160 is a good compromise.

Like previous posters noted, there are better choices for Elk, but if I were to bump up from the 7 for Elk, I would go up to a .338 and skip all of the .300 magnums. Then again, my next "do all" rifle will probably be a 30-06, as it also meets the criteria you noted admirably. I do understand the novelty of a new rifle though, so whatever you buy, enjoy.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2006, 06:39:48 AM »

I have this print out with the various calibre's recoil.
A 7RM shooting a 150gr bullet @ 3100fps generates 19.2# of recoil; a 300WM shooting a 180gr bullet @ 3000fps generates 25.9# of recoil.
Compare this to a 30-06 shooting a 180gr bullet @ 2700fps which gives you 20.3# of recoil.
Ergo, a person that is accustomed to shooting a 30-06 would have little trouble transitting to either of the above magnums.
I understand there are other factors but the above values were taken from rifles in the 8-8.5# weight brackets.
FWIW, this reflects my experiences. But in my case, I'd be shooting a 160 from the 7 and a 200 from the .300.

Back to the original question, toss a coin. The correct answer is "all of the above".

NONYA · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2006, 10:37:43 AM »

my 7 mag is a pleasure to shoot,my 300 has a 1/4" of dust on it because it kicks like a mule,its one of the synthetic skeletonized Rugers and quite possibly the most uncomfortable rifle i have ever fired.

JD338 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2006, 11:35:12 AM »

deerslayer,

The 7mm Rem Mag is more than enough gun for the hunting you have outlined. A good 160 gr bullet like the Nosler Partition ot Accubond will account for every animal you plan on hunting and bigger game as well.
The 300 Win Mag will do all of the above with more power and range at the expense of a little more recoil.
Try to find someone that will let you shoot a few rounds of each so you can make your own decision.

JD338

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2006, 11:48:19 AM »

Quote from: victorcharlie

Quote from: Redhawk1
I don't think the 300 Win Mag has much recoil at all. I have one and it is a blast to shoot. I took my Caribou in Alaska with it at 300 yards. In my opinion the 300 Mag has the advantage because of the larger bullets.
Nothing wrong with the 7mm Mag, but the 300 Win Mag gets the nod.

So......let me get this straight.......you think the 300 Win Mag doesn't have much recoil at all?

Your loosing credibility with me Redhawk1.........

I have a Tikka 300 Win Mag and it is not a big kicker in my opinion. Even my Browning A-bolt in 338 win mag is not a big kicker in my opinion. Now my Sako in 375 H& H is a little stiff. I found my Ruger #1 in 45-70 with Ruger #1 loaded 400 gr. Barnes bullets is a bit of a kicker. For some reason I am not recoil sensitive. Even when I had a 300 Win Mag barrel for my Encore, I thought it had light recoil, remember I have been shooting a Encore with a 416 Rigby barrel a lot. And in my opinion it was very manageable. We all perceive recoil different. Now I did find my 50 BMG without the muzzle brake way to much recoil, I only did that once. :eek: :shock:

Now my 416 Rigby CZ 550 has a mercury recoil suppressor as well as my Ruger #1. Also when I sit on the bench working up loads, I wear a Past recoil pad. Shooting a lot will wear on the shoulder.

257 roberts · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2006, 12:28:19 PM »

I don't use a 7mag anymore but I have shot a number of deer and pigs with one and it will do all that you need one for and more.
I used a 150gr win power pt.
I shot 180gr out of my Browning Bar 300win mag and the recoil was much more than my 7mag.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2006, 01:17:27 PM »

What your asking about the 7mm Rem Mag and the 300 Win mag. Hell neither will be any better than a 280 Rem or a 30-06. With the magnums, you'll get to use more powder, hear more muzzle blast and feel more recoil.

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2006, 01:44:47 PM »

My 7mm mag shoots 3 bullets well, 139 g Hornady, 154 gr Hornady and 160 gr Sierra with the latter the more accurate at long range. The 300 has a lot more weights to choose from but the high end will be more accurate. I passed on the 300 and added the 338 to my safe. When the winter winds are blowing and we are in hunt of the Coyote thats the gun to shoot.
Jim

JD338 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2006, 03:19:13 PM »

So......let me get this straight.......you think the 300 Win Mag doesn't have much recoil at all?

Your loosing credibility with me Redhawk1.........[/quote]

Actually I don't think the 300 Win Mag has that much recoil either, but I am used to shooting my 338 RUM. Most anything else is a walk in the park. :shock:

JD338

nomosendero · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2006, 04:27:14 PM »

There is a long list of factors that enter into the subject of recoil.
Of course the cartridge is a factor but also the weight of the gun, stock design, recoil pad & type, with a brake or not with a brake, with or
without a mercury recoil suppressor, etc.

If Redhawk says that his 300 does not bother him, I would assume that
the recoil does not bother him, why second guess him? I have a Lam.
stocked Sendero in 300 that due to the weight & the recoil pad is not bad
at all. I used to have a light 30-06 that had much more FELT recoil.

Nonya, a co-worker out of our Memphis office bought a Ruger 338 in that
stock & it was a real butt kicker. He bought a Hogue stock which is heavier, has a larger stock butt for more contact area & a soft pad as well. The felt recoil was cut drastically.

deerslayer15, I used the 7mm Mag about 10 years in 3 different rifles & it served me well. However, the 300 does have the edge with the heavier bullets & I switched from 7mm to 300 with no regrets.
I would buy a 300 with a stock that fits you & for me at least rig one up that weighs 8.5# or greater scoped. I like more weight than that as it does not bother me to carry it but to each his own. I would equip it with a good recoil pad & I would start off with lighter loads & work my way up & shoot, shoot & shoot some more.
Just my thoughts but both are good.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2006, 01:43:46 AM »

Quote from: victorcharlie

Quote from: Redhawk1
I don't think the 300 Win Mag has much recoil at all. I have one and it is a blast to shoot. I took my Caribou in Alaska with it at 300 yards. In my opinion the 300 Mag has the advantage because of the larger bullets.
Nothing wrong with the 7mm Mag, but the 300 Win Mag gets the nod.

So......let me get this straight.......you think the 300 Win Mag doesn't have much recoil at all?

Your loosing credibility with me Redhawk1.........

Man I can't get anything right. I am not recoil sensitive, I shoot Barnes bullets and use Leupold scopes.

:-D

nomosendero · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2006, 02:04:45 AM »

Yea Redhawk, I am worried about you! You obviously are someone who
shoots alot instead of offering arm chair theories. Wow, imagine that on a
"shooting site" like this. :eek:

Handwerk · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2006, 02:44:05 AM »

I have both, and like the 7 mag better. The 300wm does not offer enough difference to me to put up with more recoil. I have shot Mn. whitetails with a 7 mag for over 20 years and do not consider it too much. I have yet to make a real mess of a deer with a 7 mag. Last years 11pt (215 lbs dressed) 1 shot through the lungs at 45 yards bang-flop. 160 nosler, 1" going in , 2" going out.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2006, 03:05:10 AM »

Quote from: nomosendero

Yea Redhawk, I am worried about you! You obviously are someone who
shoots alot instead of offering arm chair theories. Wow, imagine that on a
"shooting site" like this. :eek:

Yea.....sure........I think I'll start the granddaughter off on a 300 win mag, and tell her it doesn't have much recoil............

I'll agree that some can tolerate more recoil than others, but I'd never tell anyone that a .300 Win mag doesn't have much recoil.

There was a fellow just a week or so ago who sent me a private message who told me his 7mm mag knocked his filling loose on one of his rear molars.

I've fired more rounds than most up through and including the M79 and M203 20mm grenade launcher, LAW, Quad 50's and a fair amount of other really nasty stuff that the general public has a hard time getting there hands on.

I just hope there isn't some youngster who really thinks that wizz bang magnum won't bloody his nose.........

Don't believe me........check the recoil tables......but when you say they don't recoil much understand there are youngsters that read this who don't know any better.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2006, 03:12:53 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

Man I can't get anything right. I am not recoil sensitive, I shoot Barnes bullets and use Leupold scopes. :-D

I am not recoil sensitive is a much better statement than a .300 win mag doesn't have much recoil at all IMO.

I like Lepoulds too! No need to discuss bullets again.

So.....2 out of 3 ain't bad!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 06, 2006, 05:26:28 AM »

Quote from: victorcharlie

Quote from: nomosendero
Yea Redhawk, I am worried about you! You obviously are someone who
shoots alot instead of offering arm chair theories. Wow, imagine that on a
"shooting site" like this. :eek:

Yea.....sure........I think I'll start the granddaughter off on a 300 win mag, and tell her it doesn't have much recoil............

I'll agree that some can tolerate more recoil than others, but I'd never tell anyone that a .300 Win mag doesn't have much recoil.

There was a fellow just a week or so ago who sent me a private message who told me his 7mm mag knocked his filling loose on one of his rear molars.

I've fired more rounds than most up through and including the M79 and M203 20mm grenade launcher, LAW, Quad 50's and a fair amount of other really nasty stuff that the general public has a hard time getting there hands on.

I just hope there isn't some youngster who really thinks that wizz bang magnum won't bloody his nose.........

Don't believe me........check the recoil tables......but when you say they don't recoil much understand there are youngsters that read this who don't know any better.

victorcharlie, read my first post over, I said and I quote " I don't think the 300 Win Mag has much recoil at all." I would say that is my opinion. No need to take it to the extreme. Why can't we make posts without someone making it into a PI**ING match every time they post?

jro45 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 06, 2006, 05:49:32 AM »

I've shot a deer at over 220yds with the 300 Win Mag. It doesn't recoil hardly at all. It would be the rifle I'd go with.

Norseman112 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 06, 2006, 05:59:39 AM »

I am not as recoil sensitive either, the 300 win mag is a great caliber. I think some rifles in the 300 caliber may not seem to have the recoil others have depending on set up. I agree the 300 will have more recoil, being a manageable recoil with all respect I believe depends on the individual and the setup. If someone likes the 308,30-06,270, 25-06 and many others great calibers we should respect that. On the same token if a individual sincerely likes a 7mmag or a 300 wm and uses it successfully and safely we should we respect that to.

John

deerslayer15 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 06, 2006, 08:10:48 AM »

Thanks for all the help...I guess I'm just going to have to shoot both and see which one I like better. I'm not to recoil senitive, I can handle the recoil of my 12 gauge shooting 3'' mag. slugs...But if the recoil is to much for me to comfortably shoot, I don't want to start bad shooting habits. Would a 30-06 shooting heaver bullets be enough for elk and mule deer?

Danegeld · « **Reply #26 on:** March 06, 2006, 08:14:14 AM »

Quote from: deerslayer15

Would a 30-06 shooting heaver bullets be enough for elk and mule deer?

Might even be considered by some (myself included) as OVER-KILL on deer. An 06 is a great all around American cartridge. It's been used for grizzly.

Bone

beemanbeme · « **Reply #27 on:** March 06, 2006, 09:51:00 AM »

I shot my first elk with a 30-06 using a 200gr Speer Hot Core bullet. This was before I learnt that elk were impervious to standard cartridges.

I think some of the mystique of elk hunting came from outfitters telling sports they needed to come prepared to make shots out to 500 and 600 yards. (I think the reason for that is either the guides can't guide or the sports are too fat to hunt)

I have never used a guide and the 12 elk I've killed (with a variety of cartridges) could all have been killed with the same rig I used on my first one. I've not shot an elk at even 200 yards. I think the secret is to be in shape when you go.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #28 on:** March 06, 2006, 11:25:24 AM »

The 30.06 is the standard that all cartridges are measured against. The way I understand history, when the 45.70 came out the men complained about the recoil. The 30.06 was designed so that the average man could tolerate the recoil. There are a few who think the 30.06 has a fair kick and this is compounded if used in a light weight rifle and multiplied if the stock doesn't fit you or you don't mount the gun correctly. Most all men, given enough practice and proper instruction can learn to shoot the 30.06 well.

As far a power, the only thing the magnum will really do is extend the usable range. It does that by burning more powder, making more noise and generating more recoil as a result.

Alot of people thing I don't like magnums and that just isn't true. For hunting in open areas out west at extended ranges then it might be just the ticket. I got magnumitsus when I was a young man and found that I didn't enjoy shooting the few I've had near as much as a 30.06 class cartridge especially if I wanted to shoot off the bench more than just a few rounds. I like to shoot, and believe one needs to shoot as much as possible for a variety of reasons.

Can a fellow condition himself to tolerate recoil? Yes, if you have enough time and already have a handle on marksmanship almost anybody can learn to put a couple of rounds down range and on the mark. Heavy recoil can induce problems in a good shooter such as flinching. A flinch is a hard thing to get rid of.

I'll probably get slammed for this but a big gun doesn't make a big man. If you need or want a Magnum then by all means go get one. Just don't let anyone kid you about the recoil. It's there and it's substantial.

Siskiyou · « **Reply #29 on:** March 06, 2006, 12:07:53 PM »

Stock design has a lot to do with felt recoil. Those old guys in black powder days must have been tough to fire those big bore rifles with curved butt plates.

How we are shooting makes a big difference. When I go shooting I never take less then three center fire rifles. If I take the 7 Rem. Mag. and fire 20 rounds from the bench I feel it. If I am at that special place where I can fire off hand, or from a knelling position no big issue. When I am out with the 12 quage recoil is not a problem, with one exception. The exception was my M37 feather wieght. After a week of shooting quail and grouse I hurt big time. I resolved it with a very large recoil pad. Looks like hell but feels good.

I have a Ruger M77 in 7MM Mag. The red rubber butt plate is of little value if any when it comes to recoil reduction. It is not a bad rifle from off hand. After all these years I will add a recoil pad. A friends Model 700 Rem. causes him no discomfort.

Regarding the 30-06, a lady friend is very good with a Remington 870 firing rifle slugs and buckshot. When I offered her my 30-06 to fire at some long range targets she threaten me. She found the recoil to be less then her duty shotgun and proceeded to shoot up my ammo. The rifle has a good recoil pad.