Author Topic: Opinions on Bear Spray  (Read 1231 times)

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Offline Up Close

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Opinions on Bear Spray
« on: March 23, 2003, 03:48:06 PM »
This post is NOT meant to promote a debate.  It is simply soliciting opinions and information regarding the use, pro's and con's, and first hand experiences with Bear Spray.  My son and I will spend about six weeks in Canada and Alaska this summer.  In all areas where it is legal, we will carry firearms for last ditch bear defense.  It seems that it might be prudent to also carry the spray as well; and of course, to carry it in the parks where firearms are not allowed.  I have read several books on bear attacks and most of the writers feel that the spray is a good idea.  Of all of the books I have read so far, it appears that James Shelton is the most knowlegable and experienced in the field of bear attacks.  He supports firearms as well.

So what do you think?

Thanks in advance
In God We Trust!

Offline Lawdog

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Opinions on Bear Spray
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2003, 08:31:06 AM »
Up Close,

I have done much checking into "Bear Spray" and I don't believe the all the tests are in on the their effectiveness.  New reports show bears are attracted to the sent of pepper spray.  They are also showing that a number of bears are unaffected by the spray and many go into a rage when sprayed.  After 20 plus years as a LEO I have seen these same results on humans using anti-personnel spray, MACE, pepper spray or whatever it is or what you want to call them, to have learned not to trust them.  In an attack by a bear you are NOT going to have time to try the spray and if it doesn't work then go for the rifle.  And my weapon of choice when dealing with bears is a rifle, then would come a shotgun loaded with slugs not buckshot and lastly a .44 magnum or larger handgun.  At 50 yards you are only going to have 3 to 4 seconds before the bear is on you.  On the wall behind my desk is a wooden sign that was made for me 20 years ago that reads - "I'd Rather Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six".  Which means I'd rather pay a fine for carrying a firearm in a national park then pay for a funeral.  Lawdog
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Moose-Hunter

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Opinions on Bear Spray
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2003, 01:10:57 PM »
I would never use that crap in defense of my life against a charging bear. Bears have been known to charge and maul somebody after they've been shot, so why do people think this pepper spray will stop a bear's charge? Yeah, it might work, but I'll never know, b/c I don't trust the stuff. I might use it on local dogs around my place, but that's it.

Offline dabigmoose

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Opinions on Bear Spray
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2003, 11:50:17 PM »
I used it once
 We were in whittier 10 years ago and a friend of mine that worked for the small police dept there tried a large canister of it on some black bears in a dumpster.The first blast of the stuff in the dumpster seem to scare them but after they figured out it was harmless they seem to ask for
more cajun seasoning on the trash.We had to resort to the shoot and bag
tactics that worked fine.
I think the stuff will work on a first strike encounter because the bear is surprised by the process of being spayed with somthing in the face and
reaction is to run away.But as more and more bears have been sprayed
they become campgroung vets of urban bear tactics and the yogi and bo bo squad can be dangerous.It is still best to carry a capable firearm and
be aware of your surroundings dont create a bad bear situation just so you can shoot a bear.If it is found that you are responable for keeping a sloppy camp or harrassing the bear THAT YOU HAVE TO SHOOT fines and jail time can be stiff in Canada and Alaska. Use common sense and you should have a great trip if ya bring the bear spray be careful not to set it off in you vehicle or tent seems to happen a lot up here.Dabigmoose 8)

Offline Lawdog

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Opinions on Bear Spray
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2003, 06:38:43 AM »
dabigmoose,

A "capable firearm" and "be aware of your surroundings" is better than good advice.  If more people would heed this advice there would be less problems with bears.  Lawdog
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Yukon Jack

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Opinions on Bear Spray
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2003, 06:51:42 AM »
A friend of a friend of mine was mauled about 4 years when she was working the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park near McCarthy.  A large boar grizzly approached her and she emptied a full can of the stuff in the bear's face.  The bear was already excited and upset, the spray just made it that much more mad.  She spent 2 months in the hospital recovering from her wounds.

I've got another friend who absolutely refuses to carry a gun with him anywhere (not really a bunny hugger, but doesn't feel comfortable around firearms).  He carries an air horn (one of the small compressed air horns you can buy at Wal-Mart).  He said it works like gangbusters.

The absolute best thing you can do is use your head and avoid those situations, even if you have a gun.  Make noise when going through the brush or along high bear concentration areas, like salmon streams.  An air horn might work.  Some people carry two way radios and have turned the squelch up really loud to scare bears off.  Your best defense is between your ears though.  Keep an absolutely clean campsite, don't store food where the bears can get to it.  Don't leave any food out and wash cooking and eating utensils and pans immediately.

One thing about the rangers up here in the National Parks, they are aggressive.  A couple of years ago while doing some work just inside the park boundary of the Kenai Fjords, we come across a kayaker who was ticketed $70 for leaving an orange peel on the beach.  If you are caught with a firearm, there could be federal charges.

Which park are you planning to visit?

Offline Varmint Hunter

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Opinions on Bear Spray
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2003, 01:45:31 PM »
I have no experience with this stuff on bears but have reviewed this link in the past. You may find it helpful.
http://www.counterassault.com/

Offline chk

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Opinions on Bear Spray
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2003, 04:12:33 PM »
I was in Alaska a few years ago and the locals seemed to be of the opinion the pepper spray works on Grizzly and Brown bears but not too well on Blacks. The Blacks seem to like the taste as they claimed. Dave

Offline bearhuntr

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my choice of spray
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2003, 04:26:51 PM »
1. good thinking cap 8)
2. 400 grain .416 @ 2350 fps :eek:
3. use both in conjunction together
4. never hesitate to use either
5. accept NO substitutes
best,
bhtr

Offline Daveinthebush

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Alaska Department of Fish and Game
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2003, 07:04:51 PM »
Bears and You
Nothing will guarantee your safety in bear country, but knowledge of bears and proper behavior greatly reduce your risk. For years people have believed that the one thing predictable about bear behavior is that it’s unpredictable. But Alaska Department of Fish and Game biologists disagree. "Bears have reasons for doing things. It’s only from our lack of understanding that their behavior seems unpredictable," says John Hechtel, a biologist with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. He has 18 years’ experience studying bear and human encounters.

Hechtel’s job has placed him in potentially dangerous situations numerous times, but he doesn’t tell gruesome stories of being attacked, mauled, swatted or stomped. Because of his understanding of bear behavior, Hechtel is able to use simple, respectful tactics and avoid dangerous encounters.

 
People who have many years’ experience dealing with bears often have few, if any, life-threatening encounters to report. One example is Sandy Jamieson, an Alaskan bear guide for 30 years. He has guided hunters in to some of the most remote and heavily populated bear areas in Alaska, and has encountered these animals more times than he can remember. Yet, in all of his experiences, he was forced to kill only one bear in defense of life and property.

Hechtel claims that most confrontations between bears and humans can be avoided when people have a firm understanding of bear behavior and reasons for bear-human conflicts -- and show the bears respect. Unfortunately, he sees people behave inappropriately with these animals far too frequently. "I’ve seen people do stupid things to bears," Hechtel says. "I’ve seen people throw rocks at a grazing bear from 2 feet away just to get a better picture." Hechtel emphasizes that 95 percent of the time, people are responsible for determining whether the outcome of a bear encounter will be good or bad.

Most bears tend to be wary of humans and often will do anything to avoid them, Hechtel explains. Hechtel describes the few exceptions as the "food-conditioned" bear. A bear that has had previous contact with people and was rewarded with food or trash is considered a food-conditioned bear. The result is bad for the bear and for people. "A fed bear is a dead bear," Hechtel says. He explains how ninety-five percent of food-conditioned bears will eventually become nuisances and have to be killed.

Dick Shideler, also a biologist with the Department of Fish and Game in Fairbanks, says that once a bear associates people with food, it becomes a potential threat to all people in any future encounters. Such food conditioning is entirely preventable, however. Shideler believes that by modifying camping practices and by using proper food storage and trash disposal, people can eliminate ninety percent of the risk of wilderness bear confrontations.

Knowledge of bear behavior also helps prepare a person in the event of a confrontation. Don’t panic if you see a bear and the bear eyes you intently. The animal is just surveying the situation, trying to identify what sort of creature it has encountered and whether it might be in danger. Once the bear realizes it has happened upon a person, the bear usually moves off to more important things - the daily business of being a bear.

The Bear Necessities
You can avoid them, or make your encounter a safe one, by following these safety tips.

 
Travel Smart

Always be "bear aware". At trailheads look for posted signs about recent bear activity. Watch ahead for bears or for tracks. Don’t surprise bears. Make plenty of noise when traveling. Hiking in groups is safer than hiking alone.

Dogs can be trouble in bear country. Their investigations have brought bears back to their owners more than once. It is best to leave your dog at home or keep it on a leash.

Know the difference between black and brown bears. Both black bears and brown or grizzly bears live in areas where there are state parks. Use more than the fur color for identification. There are cinnamon black bears and black brown bears.

Camping
Please help prevent trouble for those who will follow you!
In a Campground:
Never leave food out when not in use. Store food in your vehicle or a bear-proof locker.
Use bear-proof garbage cans or dumpsters for your garbage.
Keep your camp clean and odor free.

In the Backcountry:
Choose your campsite carefully. Do not camp near a trail, salmon stream, animal carcass or garbage, or any backcountry metal firepit (others may have left food odors). Do camp in a tent in an open quiet area where you can see and hear nearby wildlife, and where they can see and hear you.
Cook at least 100 feet away from camp, downwind. Do not cook near your camp, cook smelly foods, sleep in clothes with food odors, or bring any food or lotions into your tent. Store food, pots, lotions, clothes with food odors, and trash away from camp. If there are trees, cache your food out of a bear’s reach (see below). If there are no trees, hang food off of a rock face or a bridge, or store it out of a bear’s sight off the trail and downwind of camp.
Pack out all trash. Do not bury garbage - bears have very keen noses and can find buried garbage.
Use a tent. Do not sleep in the open.

Food Cache - All you need is 100 feet of light line, a small weight to attach to the end of it (a plastic bag with a rock in it works fine), and food bags that you can tie to the line. You’ll never have to climb a tree again!

1. Select 2 trees at least 20 feet apart. Throw the weighted end of the rope over a branch about 17 feet above the ground.
2. Tie the line to the trunk of the first tree. Throw the weighted end of the line over the branch of the second tree.
3. Attach your food bag to the middle of the line, and pull it up and adjust so it is centered, at least 12 feet above the ground.  
4. Tie the other end of the line to the second tree. To access food, just let it down. To re-cache it, pull it back up.

Close Encounters

Statistics show the best ways to react to bears when you see them.

If you see a bear that is far away or doesn’t see you...
turn around and go back, or circle far around. Don’t disturb it.

If you see a bear that is close or it does see you...
STAY CALM. Attacks are rare. Bears may approach or stand on their hind legs to get a better look at you. These are curious, not aggressive, bears. BE HUMAN. Stand tall, wave your arms, and speak in a loud and low voice. DO NOT RUN! Stand your ground or back away slowly and diagonally. If the bear follows, STOP.

If a bear is charging...
almost all charges are "bluff charges". DO NOT RUN! Olympic sprinters cannot outrun a bear, and running may trigger an instinctive reaction to "chase". Do not try to climb a tree unless it is literally right next to you and you can quickly get at least 30 feet up. STAND YOUR GROUND. Wave your arms and speak in a loud low voice. Many times charging bears have come within a few feet of a person and then veered off at the last second.

If a bear approaches your campsite...
aggressively chase it away. Make noise with pots and pans, throw rocks, and if needed, hit the bear. Do not let the bear get any food.

If you have surprised a bear and are contacted or attacked...
and making noise or struggling has not discouraged an attack, play dead. Curl up in a ball with your hands laced behind your neck. The fetal position protects your viatl organs. Lie still, and be silent. Surprised bears usually stop attacking once you are no longer a threat (i.e. "dead").

If you have been stalked by a bear, a bear is approaching your campsite,
or an attack is continuing long after you have ceased struggling, fight back! Predatory bears are often young bears that can be successfully intimidated or chased away. Use a stick or rocks or your hands and feet.

 
Protection
Most people who hike in Alaska’s wilderness don’t carry a weapon. They know that the best defense is common sense. Traveling and camping carefully are all that they need. If you feel the need for additional protection, consider carring "pepper spray", a bear deterrent made from the juice of red-hot peppers. This incapacitating spray teaches bears a lesson without permanently maiming them. It’s available at local sporting goods stores and at visitor centers. Be familiar with the characteristics of the brand you choose and its warnings.

You are allowed to carry a gun for protection in state parks. Remember, though, that more people are hurt by the guns they carry than are hurt by bears. Select a gun that will stop a bear (12-gauge shotgun or .300 mag rifle) and practice firing it at a rifle range. Any bear shot in self defense must be salvaged and turned over to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.

Also see: The Essentials for Traveling in Bear Country

Alaska Department of Fish and Game -http://www.state.ak.us/local/akpages/FISH.GAME/

P.S.  If some tells you to wear little bells.........The difference between black bear scat and grizz scat is that black bear scat contains little berry seeds and small bones.  Grizz scat has little bells in it and smells like hot sauce.
AK Bowhunting Certification Instructor
AK Hunter Certification Instructor
IBEP Bowhunting Certification Instructor

Offline dabigmoose

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Opinions on Bear Spray
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2003, 08:22:50 PM »
Hi Dave
Glad ya left that part about bells and pepper sauce in.
ITS that time of year again we will be besieged by tourist
any day now.Im up north in prudhoe bay at the moment
and still lots of ice and snow its
 15 above though.We have had a few Polar bear come by ,
Grizz should be out end of month.Hope all is well
 
Dabigmoose