Author Topic: Bake on Gun Coats (Read 1462 times)

tbmaker · « **on:** March 05, 2006, 04:48:14 PM »

Opinions from you folks on the new bake-on coatings out there.
I just applied Dura Cote to 2 rifles, worked reasonably well.
Sand blasted all painted parts, wiped with acetone and sprayed on the coating. Air dried overnight then baked in an industrial oven as per instructions, 300 deg. for 10 minutes.
The small parts came out great, the barreled actions still have a tacky feel.
Thinking the actions didn't get to tempature long enough so I'm considering re-baking the actions.
Think it will do the trick?
Have 2 more guns to do so I'm making sure to get the bugs out of the system before hand. Plan on baking the barreled actions 10 minutes more in the future.

Wayne

victorcharlie · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2006, 02:29:23 AM »

I've been wanting to try the bake on myself. Having never done one I'd only be guessing but I think I'd put it back in the oven, or turn it down to 225 and leave it in for 30 minutes or so.

Greybeard posted about painting a rifle and leaving it in the cab of his truck during the alabama summer to bake the finish. What temp would you think a truck cab can get up to in the summer? 160?

Let us know how this works for you as there have been several post about the bake on products which indicate there is some interest.

What make and model guns are you going to try it on?

tbmaker · « **Reply #2 on:** March 06, 2006, 05:34:21 AM »

Started with a 257 Rob. on a mauser action and a 96 Swede sportered. The Swede had a real rust issue with just cold bluing.
I have another Swede and my father's Rem. 1100 20ga. (too much ridding in the back of the truck) to do plus several friends have come up with projects also.
I think it's worth the effort so far.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 06, 2006, 06:38:42 AM »

I've used the baking lacquers and powder coat products for some time. The baking lacquers are handy and a bit better than just spray paint but not a lot. They usually have durability issues. The best I've found is posder coat. The process is fairly simple but prperation is mandatory. I usually strip and take the weapon to a local applicator. They prp the metal and applu the powder. It's applied electrostatically and fused at 400 degrees. Sounds to hot but 4140 Cm and other steels are not affected. Color choice is nearly infinite, although prices can be higher than for baking lacquer. Once applied the powder coat is tenacious in the extreme and indeed can be a real bear to remove.. I usually apply to guns facing a really rough life and so far it's survived very well indeed!!

Keith L · « **Reply #4 on:** March 06, 2006, 12:34:24 PM »

Powder coat is the best finish in a long time. It is environmentally friendly, looks good, is tough as Gunnut indicates, and we found it even covered burrs in sheetmetal that had been cutting fingers on our assemblers with wet spray. But it needs special equipment (electrostatic, special base coat, cure oven) to use, so it isn't a good home handy man project.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 06, 2006, 09:06:48 PM »

That's certainly true.. There are some home use kits available but their quality is unknown. Then there is the issue of correct metal prep... I use a local applicator and do the tear down, etc. They clean, mask and apply...

AkRvrrat · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2006, 07:19:38 AM »

all things being equal I suspect that the DuraCoat to have worked equally well both on the barrel and receiver. If the receiver is not taking the "set" and you believe you need to cook the paint more it may have something to do with one or the other ie... metal pores are not cleaned properly as suspected and or your mix is improper. Go back to the Lauer Weaponry website or call Steve up and give him your "whats up".

tbmaker · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2006, 09:16:42 AM »

From Steve at Lauer.

Greetings! Here's some info. Always degrease before blasting and never afterwards. When you are finished blasting just blow the dust off with shop air. Then go ahead and apply the coating. When using DuraBake, allow the coating to rest for 15-30 minutes, then bake. In this case I think that the larger parts did not heat to 300F. Try baking again, this generally works. If the parts remain tacky after a re-bake then you must blast the coating off and start from scratch. Try baking at 325-350F for 15-20 minutes. The results should be outstanding. Best Regards

savageT · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2006, 09:40:24 AM »

tbmaker,
A couple issues about the Durabake procedure I'm concerned about:
1) Good point on degreasing BEORE sandblasting. However.......I don't care for acetone as a good solvent. I believe a chlorinated solvent is best especially when you vapor degrease rather than dipping.
2) I worry about how clean the "shop air" is......Usually contains water and oil vapors from the compressor. A filter should be used in the air line.
3) Check the temperature of your oven by using a good calibrated thermometer. Remember to allow sufficient time for the gun parts to come up to temperature also........If you have a thermocouple type thermometer try placing the metal pieces on the thermocouple to determine the actual temp.
Jim

Plink · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2006, 12:06:05 PM »

Why would you want to use a bake on finish anyway, when there's a no bake finish that's more durable, comes in more colors, is just as easy to apply, and looks better?

I had looked into the bake on finishes offered by Brownells, but couldn't come up with an oven large enough to bake rifles in. I stumbled onto Lauer finishes by accident and have been thoroughly pleased ever since.

I did an SKS just to test the finish and it looks really good. I'm getting ready to do an AK and a FAL now, with a couple of handguns waiting their turn.

Check them out at http://www.lauerweaponry.com/

j two dogs · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2006, 07:36:09 AM »

Look into Cerma-Coat by wheeler engineering. Midway sells it sounds similar to dura-coat as far as prep. Have done a mk2 m77 stainless in .300 wsm, also a sks, getting ready to do my 6.5 swede project, that stuff is amazing, almost goof proof, and talk about tough it took me an hour to take a final coat off one still was black underneath it with steel wool and a whole lot of elbow grease, I could have had the blue off one by then.

tbmaker · « **Reply #11 on:** March 22, 2006, 05:17:25 PM »

Plink, how do you figure the non bake finish is better?
They wouldn't offer the bake on finish if all you had to do is spray it on.
I understand about oven size. The only reason I considered the bake on was my access to large ovens.
I airbrush fish everyday, bake on still makes more sense for durability, air dry is still just laquer paint no matter how you look at it.
I'll update this next week when I do 2 more rifles and bake them better and rebake the first 2.

j two dogs, where did you find Cerma-Cote at Midway?
I originally looked for this product, as seen in their master catolog, but when time to order all I could find was Lauer products.

j two dogs · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2006, 03:32:33 AM »

It is a relatively new product, it was in my master cat., if you can't fing it just ask the sales person, they have been very helpful in the past when it was first new, and not in the cat. they got it ordered for me. Again I can not speak of other types but this stuff is greeeeeeeat! In my hmo it is as durable as a blued finish.

corelokt308win · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2006, 08:37:02 AM »

I was thinking the air dry coatings were an epoxy.

Heavyhaul · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2006, 06:40:22 PM »

I know that this isn't the same. I don't know about bake on coatings for guns, when it comes to sealing concrete and block, the water base sealer works best. You can buy Dry-lok, if my memory serves me correct, in latex or twice the price for some chemical clean-up that the company will tell you that doesn't work as well. They only produce it because they can convince people that the latex is better.

bluebayou · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2006, 07:50:11 PM »

Midway #455475

tbmaker · « **Reply #16 on:** March 24, 2006, 03:29:34 AM »

Thanks bluebayou.
Now you got me thinking, I just bought another can of Lauers, wonder if I should return it and get the Cerma-Cote.
Considerably cheaper.
But in fairness to Lauer, the small parts have turned out very nice and the actions are going back in for a re-bake next week.
I'll keep you posted.

Plink · « **Reply #17 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:50:07 PM »

Quote from: tbmaker

Plink, how do you figure the non bake finish is better?
They wouldn't offer the bake on finish if all you had to do is spray it on.
I understand about oven size. The only reason I considered the bake on was my access to large ovens.
I airbrush fish everyday, bake on still makes more sense for durability, air dry is still just laquer paint no matter how you look at it.

TB,
It's a different type of finish. It's a 2 part mix with a hardener. It hardens over time and is more durable than the bake on stuff, which is really just glorified spray paint. As Gunnut said, the bake on stuff has durability issues. The Lauer product continues to harden over time, yet retains enough flexibility to make it chip proof.

I don't know the chemistry involved, but their site explains it pretty well.

Plink · « **Reply #18 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:55:16 PM »

Quote from: tbmaker

Thanks bluebayou.
Now you got me thinking, I just bought another can of Lauers, wonder if I should return it and get the Cerma-Cote.
Considerably cheaper.
But in fairness to Lauer, the small parts have turned out very nice and the actions are going back in for a re-bake next week.
I'll keep you posted.

Ahh, my bad. I thought the thread was about the spray can baking finish from Brownells. I see you are using Lauer. I have no experience with their baking finish, only their spray on, and it's far more durable than the Brownells baking finish.

I'd be very interested in your observations of Lauer's baking finish. How does it compare to their non bake finish for durability? I don't have an oven large enough for rifles, but I have some pistols waiting their turn.

AkRvrrat · « **Reply #19 on:** March 27, 2006, 01:48:07 PM »

Plink, I just done 2 rifles and my Bisley in one of 2 colors I bought-OD Grn. and Combat Blk. Done my wifes 94 .30-30 in the 2 tone with both colors. Used a airbrush and a new comressor-got the hang of doing the "airbrushing"--pretty happy with the looks. Now been maybe 2 wks and won't bother the rifles until maybe 3 wks. or so. I am not so anxious to find out if it is truly resilient or not of a fininsh-took some time doing. I have not either used the DuraBake. Sure is a nice finish. Lauer recommends but says it is not necessary to parkerize the metal for better adherence I may attempt that later. So many things to do and not enough money or time.

AkRvrrat · « **Reply #20 on:** March 27, 2006, 01:50:28 PM »

Plink, I just done 2 rifles and my Bisley in one of 2 colors I bought-OD Grn. and Combat Blk. Done my wifes 94 .30-30 in the 2 tone with both colors. Used a airbrush and a new comressor-got the hang of doing the "airbrushing"--pretty happy with the looks. Now been maybe 2 wks and won't bother the rifles until maybe 3 wks. or so. I am not so anxious to find out if it is truly resilient or not of a fininsh-took some time doing. I have not either used the DuraBake. Sure is a nice finish. Lauer recommends but says it is not necessary to parkerize the metal for better adherence I may attempt that later. So many things to do and not enough money or time.

oldelkhunter · « **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2006, 07:30:46 AM »

DO it right and use and use Cerakote. contact fit4duty.

Plink · « **Reply #22 on:** March 31, 2006, 01:20:58 PM »

Rvr, is the combat black as dark as it looks on their color chart? I'm looking for the darkest of dark blacks and that looks like the right one. Thanks.

AkRvrrat · « **Reply #23 on:** April 01, 2006, 06:43:55 AM »

Plink, I observed the same before I made the order. Now that I have applied it to 2 rifles and 1 handgun-it is a very matte black. A good choice for black.