Author Topic: trying to decide between 204 or 223 in m77mkII (Read 1694 times)

countryrebel8174 · « **on:** March 12, 2006, 12:37:28 AM »

ok heres the deal im trying to decide between a 223 and a 204 in m77mkII . the gun is going to be used for sage rats mostly maybe an occasional yote dog. i like the price of the 223 ammo better but the 204 has me curious. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. i have never shot either caliber, so i dont know much about either...im just looking for something in a centerfire varmint caliber to splatter squirrels all day....the 300 win mag is getting rather expensive(although its still fun :wink: )

thanks guys,

countryrebel

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2006, 02:32:23 AM »

I do not own a 204 but a friend does. We shoot out to 300 or 350 yards mostly in nice weather (woodchucks)
I do not see the romance with 204 other than it is new.
223 is cheep to shoot and cheep to reload.
Another reason may be that I am knee deep in 22 caliber centerfires and have a good selection od bullets to reload.
My expierence with coyotes is I would not want anything smaller than a 50gr bullet from a 22-250 or a 220 Swift

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2006, 03:23:06 PM »

I've seen the 204's shoot, and they're pretty good performers both in accuracy, and on game, but I'm sticking to my ever faithfull 77-MK II 223. It does pretty much the same thing for a lot less cost.

countryrebel8174 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2006, 04:17:05 PM »

hey jerry whats the accuracy with your m77 mkII in 223? im pretty sure thats what i want to get. i have heard alot of good things about the 223 caliber from people i know at work but there are a few guys that are saying that the 204 will out shoot the 223 all day.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2006, 05:16:45 PM »

The .223 would be the easy choice for me. Especially if I didn't reload.

My next choice would be a .22-250, which is what I have. Don't have a need for anything under .224".

countryrebel8174 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2006, 08:06:50 PM »

so coyote hunter you would say that the 22 250 is a better all around caliber then the 223?

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2006, 12:50:40 AM »

I just purchased my first MK2 rifle, it is a 220 Swift.
I sighted it in with a box of factory ammo at 50 yards then moved back to just under 300 yards. I shot 5 rounds into a group of 3.6".
Considering a light barrel, heavy trigger and factory ammo I think this rifle could have a permenant home!!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2006, 04:09:19 AM »

Quote from: countryrebel8174

so coyote hunter you would say that the 22 250 is a better all around caliber then the 223?

It really depends on what you want to do with it. Factory ammo is much cheaper for the .223. When reloading there isn’t that much difference in cost, although the .223 will use less powder. When shooting on a p-dog village the .223 has an advantage in that it doesn’t heat the barrel as fast. The .22-250 has an advantage at longer ranges.

Last weekend a friend was at the range with his sporter-weight .223 and was nailing 3 out of 4 clay pigeons at 300 yards. I have done the same with my Ruger M77 MKII VT (heavy barrel) .22-250. I’ve taken coyotes at just under 500 yards with the .22-250, probably could have done the same with the .223 – just need to know the trajectory.

You can get the .223 in a Ruger Compact, a rifle I would love to have. Not available in a .22-250. My 26” heavy-barrel .22-250 has been relegated to p-dog village duties, as I have adopted my 22” sporter-weight .257 Roberts for coyotes – the 22” is a lot easier to jump out of the truck with when a coyote is spotted.

My favorite .22-250 loads include a Nosler 40g BT/Varget at 4050fps and 50-52g Speer and Hornady BTHP’s/Varget at 3578fps. When I shoot up my supply of BTHP’s I will switch to the 50g Hornady V-MAX which run slightly faster with the same 35.0g Varget. On a test group, the 50g V-MAX’s put 4 holes in under 0.5” at 200 yards with the .22-250.

“Better” is a subjective term and the .223 and .22-250 both have advantages relative to the other. Figure out what your goals are for the rifle, compare the two cartridges, get one, and have fun shooting – I doubt you’ll have any regrets no matter which you choose.

longwalker · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2006, 06:28:56 AM »

In my opinion the 223 will do almost everything you will ever want it to do. If you need to shoot things past 350 yards, think about a bigger bullet. My limited experience has illustrated to me that wind and temerature have a much bigger effects on bullets the smaller they are.

Therefore out here in the windy prairies of South Dakota I am much more sucessfull with bigger bullets. Past 300 yards, my hit ratio goes way up when I get out the 25-06 with 100 grain bullets.

longwalker

countryrebel8174 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 13, 2006, 07:15:21 AM »

well im pretty sure im going to go for the 223. i mostly want to shoot ground squirrels with it and it sounds pretty promising for closer coyotes....if i see a coyote thats way out ill just do what i normally do and dust him with my 300 mag. thanks guys for all the posts you have been really helpful

country rebel

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2006, 11:54:50 AM »

Quote from: countryrebel8174

hey jerry whats the accuracy with your m77 mkII in 223? im pretty sure thats what i want to get. i have heard alot of good things about the 223 caliber from people i know at work but there are a few guys that are saying that the 204 will out shoot the 223 all day.

Mine gives me MOA with just about any load I've tried in it over the years. It'll give me sub MOA with several loads, and amzing groups with a couple of it's prefered loads.

Like some others said here, the 223 will do all you ever need up to 300+ yards, and if you need more than it can do, you'd be better served with a larger caliber like a 243, etc.

.........................................................................................................

I need to add...

My 77 MK-II 223 has been "touched up" just a tad. I've floated the barrel, bedded the action, re-worked the trigger to a crisp 2 lbs, and lapped the barrel. It shot pretty daggone good out of the box, but it does considerably better now.

lovedogs · « **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2006, 12:12:17 PM »

Seems to me we've all pretty much figured out that the .204 isn't going to replace many .22 calibers. I feel it's too limited on bullets available, where the .22's have lots to choose from. And, in comparing the .223, you can load a light 40 gr. bullet and compete well with the .204. The .22's are the hands-down winners in my estimation.

On coyotes you didn't mention how you are hunting them. I hunted them for the USFWS for 14 yrs. and found that most shooters can't shoot well enough to utilize the extra range afforded by the .22-.250's and .220 Swifts anyway. Out to just over 300 yds. a .223 will take coyotes just as well as the hotter rounds. If you intend to do lots of long-range shooting a good .22-.250 is hard to beat. Most normal coyote hunting is just as easily accomplished with a good .222 or .223 and 50 gr. bullets. I've had the best results using Speer 52 gr. HP's. Next is the Hornady 50 gr. SX. If you're trying to save fur the Speer 52 HP is best as it seldom exits but kills well.

For real long ranges and windy conditions I'd use something in the .243 and .25-06 classes. The lighter .243's work well but the 100 gr. in .25-06 is king of the hill. Forget the fur though. These big boys will really tear up a hide.

countryrebel8174 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2006, 12:24:42 AM »

well i was going to use which ever gun i pick to shoot ground squirrels. im leaning towards the 223, i just wanted to know if it would be enough gun to put a yote down and keep it down. i normally shoot em with the 300 mag so im obviosly not concerned about fur being intact....i only need the face mask for the bounty on em anyway. :wink:

good shooting
country rebel

tuck2 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2006, 06:33:27 PM »

There is a lot of info at http://www.rugerhunting.com My Ruger Target Varmint rifle 204 Ruger is one fine prairie dog shooter. iMy 223 Rem stays at home since I got the 204.

K.K · « **Reply #14 on:** April 06, 2006, 03:09:28 PM »

I shot some chucks with my buddy's .204. I could see the bullet strike the animal (or the dirt). My 22-250 recoils just enough that I sometimes cannot see the impact through the scope. Just a little tid-bit, if that is important to you. You will be able to shoot more and cheaper with the 223, though.

countryrebel8174 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 08, 2006, 11:18:47 PM »

i shot my buddies 25 06 and i think im leaning in that direction now...if i can convince the wife its a good plan.

country rebel

Old Griz · « **Reply #16 on:** April 22, 2006, 10:34:49 PM »

:cb2: Hope you reload. If not, you'd better stick with the .223. As long as the military is using the M-16 there will always be cheap ammo out there.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #17 on:** April 23, 2006, 05:32:18 AM »

Quote from: Old Griz

:cb2: Hope you reload. If not, you'd better stick with the .223. As long as the military is using the M-16 there will always be cheap ammo out there.

I'll second that.

If you don't reload but like to shoot, the .223 is the compelling choice.

A .25-06 is a great dual-purpose (deer/varmints) round - arguably the best. But achieving this status doesn't come without tradeoffs. It is simply not in the same class as a .223 when it comes to high-volume varmint shooting. The larger powder charges mean the barrel heats up faster and ammo costs more. On the other hand, coyote hunting is low-volume shooting and the .25-06 is an outstanding choice if you are not saving the pelts. As a deer rifle, the .25-06 is the hands-down winner over the .223 in my book.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #18 on:** April 23, 2006, 07:53:04 AM »

Quote from: Old Griz

:cb2: Hope you reload. If not, you'd better stick with the .223. As long as the military is using the M-16 there will always be cheap ammo out there.

Much cheaper to shoot .223 than .204

The military has used the .223 for 40+ years. That's almost as long as the 30.06, and as long as the .308. The. 45-70 nor the .30-40 Kraig lasted that long. My quess is in the next 10 years we are likely to see a new round and new rifle to go with it......if history is to repeat itself....... :wink:

nasem · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2006, 11:33:50 AM »

I do have a .223 in a bushmaster 20". Love that round. Cheap ammo (13 cents a pop), GREAT accuracy, what else can you ask for lol

Old Griz · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2006, 05:23:48 PM »

:cb2: I'd ask for the Bushmaster in .308! :eek:

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #21 on:** May 06, 2006, 01:16:51 PM »

Quote from: countryrebel8174

i only need the face mask for the bounty on em anyway.

Bounty??? !!! You get PAID to shoot them??? Must be nice!

countryrebel8174 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 06, 2006, 10:34:14 PM »

hey coyotehunter do you save the pelts of the song dogs you shoot (in the winter)?

country reb

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #23 on:** September 07, 2006, 03:51:44 AM »

Quote from: countryrebel8174 on September 06, 2006, 10:34:14 PM

hey coyotehunter do you save the pelts of the song dogs you shoot (in the winter)?

country reb

I can buy nicely finished coyote pelts at the gun shows for $40 or $50 bucks, not that I want to. Save them? Never. The ranchers where I shoot consider my coyote hunting a "valuable service" and allow me to hunt antelope and deer in return.