Chinese powder

[horseman308]

Okay. I was at a woods walk shoot yesterday, about 2/3 through when my horn ran dry  :oops:   I usually shoot GOEX 3F (75 gr.) in my .50 flintlock. Anyway, one of the guys who was done let me borrow his horn and measure.  He shoots Chinese powder in a 68 grain load. He said that it burns hotter than GOEX, and I sure didn't notice any difference in off-hand accuracy. I had put enough rounds through the bore that I couldn't tell any difference in fouling when I switched.

So, does anyone here know anything about Chinese powder? The guy said he gets it at the Friendship Rendevous for about $6 a pound, which is nearly a 1/3 of what I paid for my last pound of GOEX (I haven't had the money to order in bulk and had gift certificates to Cabelas, so I got the GOEX there). I'm really interested in the idea of paying only $6 a pound for powder, but I want powder that burns about as cleanly and consistently as the GOEX. So, can anyone give me any advice or opinion of Chinese powder?

[lostid]

which "chinese" powder? Kik, or Dragon?
  The stuff was brought in back in the late 80's in "cargotainer" volume as an oppertunity for cash flow and entreprenurial(spl?) cash flow. The stuff is made for "firecrackers". It has a high sulpher content. You should be able to smell that when shooting.
 Yes, while changing powders, and maintining the same shooting style,,you should be able too keep the same accuracy and technique for several shot's,(5-10). However beyound that point, learning to deal with those powders, firearm care, and cleaning, may be different.

 My freind.  6$'s a pound powder?? oh' ya'. that's the good stuff. Yep.
(sarcasm, here)!)

[harryo]

which "chinese" powder? Kik, or Dragon?
 

KIK powder is not Chinese.  It is manufactured in Slovenia, one of the ex Soviet block countries in western Europe.

[KING]

     You always have to remember that you get what you pay for.  At the present time I shoot,Elephant,Goex,Swiss,Wano,and Schuetzen powders in all of the granulations.  Most are used in my muzzleloaders and some goes into my BPCR cartridges.  Elephant is the weakest of the powders with Swiss comming out on top as the strongest and easiest to clean,Elephant can be a real bear if the humidity is rather low.  You have to shoot what makes you happy but again the cheapest might make a good cannon powder but really screw up a good muzzloader with the fouling and so on.  As a word to the wise.stay with the best you can afford.....................stay safe...King

[jeager106]

WARNING

DO NOT use any powder you even think might be fireworks powder.
Fireworks powder is NOT the black powder firearms propellant you may have been led to believe it is.

Fireworks powder CAN and WILL EXPLODE and rip yer face right off!

I'm familiar with that chinese 6 buck a pound junk. It was imported illegally, then later sold illegally as firearms propellant.
If you have some do yourself and those around you a huge favor and get rid of the stuff before you pay a serious price for saving a few bucks.
Storing that junk is dangerous. PERIOD.

I won't go into the chemical make up of the stuff youmay think is black powder but it is fireworks grade EXPLOSIVE, not even classed a propellant.
If you really want to know the chemical make up then look it up.
It's not important. What is important is that no one should use that suff.
EVER.

In fact Swiss is not a rifle grade powder.
It's a sporting grade powder and should not be used in the same calibers, volume ratio as Elephant or Goex.
They ain't the same animal.

If you use Swiss use it right. It's best to use Swiss in 3fg in .45 and SMALLER then you should cut the charges back by 20%.
If you shoot Swiss in calibers .50 and larger you should use 1.5fg and cut by 20%.

Yeah, we know.
"my buddy" has been using 150 grains of Swiss 3fg in his .58 caliber Hawken and nuttin' happened to him.
Yet.

[lostid]

Sage advise from  jeager.
And his use of this qoute,

Yeah, we know.
"my buddy" has been using 150 grains of Swiss 3fg in his .58 caliber Hawken and nuttin' happened to him.
Yet.

  is really valid!
 If anything can be learned from experienced shooters,,it's from the mistakes they've made and seen!

 This Traditional Black powder shooting stuff isn't rocket science, it's 400 years old and reached it's pinnacle of capabilities long ago. It's primitive, yet refined. That's the allour.

[ButlerFord45]

Black powder is a propellant?  First time I ever heard that!!!!   You sure about that?

Maybe that's why I can't shoot worth a hoot, my Goex was only $6/lb, maybe I need to send the distributor some more money so it won't be junk.

[lostid]

Black powder is a propellant?  First time I ever heard that!!!!   You sure about that?

Maybe that's why I can't shoot worth a hoot, my Goex was only $6/lb, maybe I need to send the distributor some more money so it won't be junk.

whatever,you know darn well as i do, the point of this thread.
 If you bought goex at 6$ per#. it's been a long tyme since you've tried current and/or fresh powder.
Period!
 It's kinda tyme ta get current butlerferd(all respect intended).
 olde powder is just that. fresh powder is just that too.

[sharps4590]

Black powder, as classed by BATF, is a class A explosives, thus the hazmat surcharge if you order it.  lostid, one can purchase new GOEX at $6.00 a lb.........if one cares enough to do some shopping and asking.  If black is kept in a sealed container it doesn't lose it's "freshness" and I can prove that my friend, but I don't have to as it's been done numerous times.....you should re-think your "period".

Vic

[horseman308]

Thanks for the info guys. I got to thinking about my trip the other day. I remembered that it took nearly twice as many patches and cleaning fluid to get the fouling out of the barrel of my rifle. I was talking to other guys after shooting and didn't pay much attention at the time, just kinda said "hmm" and filed it away. But with Chinese being that dirty, along with it's potential instability, I think I'll just stick with GOEX.

BTW, where can you find GOEX for $6 a pound?! The cheapest I can find it without buy it in huge bulk is about $12.

[sharps4590]

Ahhhh...the secret word......bulk.  For the last 10-12 years I've always bought in bulk.  One thing you can do is go together with a few friends and order a case.  Even with the hazmat charge you'll be money ahead.

Vic

[ButlerFord45]

Black powder is a propellant?  First time I ever heard that!!!!   You sure about that?

Maybe that's why I can't shoot worth a hoot, my Goex was only $6/lb, maybe I need to send the distributor some more money so it won't be junk.

whatever,you know darn well as i do, the point of this thread.
 If you bought goex at 6$ per#. it's been a long tyme since you've tried current and/or fresh powder.
Period!
 It's kinda tyme ta get current butlerferd(all respect intended).
 olde powder is just that. fresh powder is just that too.

    Yeah, I'm just not shooting enough, I'm still working on the same #50 lot of FFF I got last August!  'Course I'm still trying to figger how to mount a strap to those #25 plastic bags!!??  They sure make an ugly flask! :-D

Guys find a Distributor and get the stuff in bulk, 2 25# plastic bags in a cardboard box.  When I got my last, the man said it was going to go up, he was guessing $.50 per pound which would make it $6.50/lb.  I know, it ain't Swiss, but is damn sure ain't firecracker powder either.  You're probably going to have to go get it but if you and a buddy can save $3-6 or more per pound on #100 or better yet, 4 of you, it starts to make the trip worth considering, wouldn't you agree?  Lemme' see: 4 people x $5 average savings for 200#???  Well the numbers are too big for me but I do know that it equals a bunch more than a couple of meals from Mikki D's.

edited to add:  The guy I got the powder from asked if I had ever tried Dragon powder, my reply was No, I'd only used Dupont, Goex, Swiss and 2 pounds of Elephant from a 1 pound container, my first and my last.  He gave me a pound of Dragon and said "Here take this and try it, it's the only thing my son's and I use."  My thought at the time was "Yeah, you ol' rascle, that's probably the only way you can get rid of what you have on hand, shoot it yourself  and give it away!"  He did however seem sincere in belief but I still have the can, I haven't tried it yet.  I have heard from some SASS shooters that say it is decent powder but I have no personal experience with it.