Author Topic: Developing the correct load  (Read 1155 times)

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Offline Carroll B

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Developing the correct load
« on: March 14, 2006, 06:52:37 AM »
I have a fairly new .308 that I plan to use for antelope.  I'm in the process of finding the right combo of bullet and powder charge to give me accuracy to 200+ yards.  I'm not that good of a shot so my question is, for the purpose of choosing the best handload can I do this by checking the accuracy at 50, 75, or should I stick to 100 yards?  I plan to load about 6 the bullets at say 50 grains, then 6 at 51 grains, then 6 at 52 grains, etc.  to find the most accurate load.  My purpose of shooting at ranges less then 100 yards is to have the accuracy based on my bullet and powder charge and to try and minimize my lack of shooting ability.  Currently at 100 yards over a bench rest I feel I'm doing good when I can shoot a 2-3 inch group. Hopefully a new pair of eyeglasses and working on my breathing and trigger squeeze will also help shrink my groups.  I just ordered some Hornady 150 gr BTSP bullets and I weigh each of my powder charges.
Don't give up, Moses was once a basket case.

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Offline Don Fischer

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Developing the correct load
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2006, 04:40:25 PM »
It sound's like you need more lesson's in shooting first. Probally a good idea to get someone that shoot's very well to watch you and tell you what your doing wrong. The best handload's in the world won't make up for a lack of shooting skill. And developing reasonable skill's is not all that hard but there's more than just breath control. I'm guessing your using a scope. What power? Many people will shoot better with a lower power than a high power. 3X vrs 9X. the problem on 9X is that you see your breathing and your heart beat at high magnification. That's what moves the cross hairs around. The same thing happen's at 3X but the low power doesn't magnify it. At 9X the tendicity is to jerk the trigger when the crosshairs pass your aiming point. At 3X you don't see that and consentrate more on a good pull. By the way, I'm a great beliver in low power scopes on hunting rifle's,like 2 3/4 and 4. Either has plenty of magnification for shooting farther than you probally should shoot.

Next, I like to sight in at 100yds. Then I cronograph the load's and sight in for max point blank range at an 8" target. For most all cartridges that'll give you a dead on hold to around 300 yds. That means the bullet will never go more than 4" above the line of sight or 4" below it. I don't think the 308 will get quite 300 yds, don't have my balistics calculator with me, but it'll get you close. Then a dead on hold out to the max point blank range will give you a hit. Make sure you shoot at 100, 200 and 300 yds in practice. You'll be able to see just what's happening then.

But this is all for nothing unless you learn to shoot properly first. It's not that your not a pretty good shot, it's that you just probally never learned how to shoot properly in the first place. I can drop into a sitting position, kneeling position or prone (which I seldom shoot from) and land with all the tension out of my mussel's. You are probally fighting that tension. If you sight your rifle on the target fron a field position and then close your eye's and really relax, when you re-open your eye's, the sight's should still be on the target. If their not, you need to move your body around to release that tension. That tension is caused by you forcing your mussel's to move the muzzle to the target rather than turning your body.

Shooting from prone is real steady but your shoulder witt absorb all the recoil. If you shoot from sitting or kneeling, the recoil will push your shoulder back and your hip's will rotate back slightly absorbing much of the recoil. In the sitting position, your butt makes a shooting platform. Your elbows and knees lock in to form a tripod with your back. Very steady position. Kneeling you'll rest your elbow on a knee to the front and a knee and foot support your upper body. The recoil again goes into your shoulder but is dampened by your hip's. Off hand is a terrible way to shoot and I avoid it at all time's unless I'm right on top of what I'm shooting at. No real support. Some people can shoot remarkably well off hand but they have shooting skills honed beyond fine.

Kinda windy, sorry. Hope it helps some. Learn to shot!
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Carroll B

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Developing the correct load
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2006, 11:14:55 AM »
Thanks for the input Don.  They have a high power group at my club but they require a lot more time then I have, something like 12 hours a weekend.  (My fishing and hunting hobbies get in the way) I do have a nephew that is in the secret service.  I plan to have him help me.  I have watched him shoot and he know what he is doing.  He has told me what I am doing wrong using a pistol but I didn't have the .308 the last time we shot together.  I am using a scope.  It's a 4-12x.  I will try your suggestion of keeping it turned down.  I do this when hunting but shot at 12x when at the range.  The longest range I have access to is 200 yards.  The outfitter I plan to hunt with told me to sight in for a 200 yard zero.  As I said in my first post I also need new glasses as I am having a hard time getting a clear picture through the scope as well as my CPU monitor.
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Offline Don Fischer

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Developing the correct load
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2006, 07:15:38 PM »
You may find your group's increase a good deal just by using 4x. I shot small bore match while stationed in Europe with another guy from my unit. He was an olympic class shooter and every match came down to him and this army guy, another olympic shooter. They both had Anschutz match rifles w/20x scope's. I shot a Rem mod 52 match w/aperature sight's. On several occassions I tried shooting Howards rifle but couldn't even cock it, 2oz trigger! So Howard would cock it for me. No way could I hold the cross wire's steady yet he shot all 10x's until they got to offhand. Never saw either guy shoot 100 off hand much less 10x's. High power scope's just magnify the hell out of everything. You can watch your heart beat at 20x!

Your probally gonna find you shoot better than you think. 1 1/2" at 100 yds ain't bad. Your guide want's you sighted in at 200 yds, do it but practice to 300 if you can. Get used to 300 and do group's about 4" or 5" and shooting at 200 yds will be a breeze.

Now as for load developement, load three shots at a time for group's. You'll seldom get more shot's than that. Then shoot at even ranges, 100, 200,& 300 yds. Develope the loads at 100 yds, easiest to shoot good group's and better group's will boost your confidence. Also you'll get used to thinking in 100 yd increment's. Makes looking at game at different ranges easier. Once you've developed the load, then sight in the rifle. Don't concern yourself with where developement loads hit the paper, it doesn't matter. Remember, they are only developement loads.

When sighting in, do it for a max point blank range at an 8" target. That way your shot will never be more than 4" high or 4" low from point of aim. If your P.B.R. is 275 yds, something like that w/ 165 gr bullet, all you have to do to kill any animal with a kill zone the size of an Antelope's lung area is aim at dead center. That will cover your guide's 200 yds sight in range and make better use of the trajectory of your load. I believe you were using 150 gr bullet's. I have no data for them as to trajectory but would guess it's close to the 165 gr. Surely someone here has the information.

Good luck!
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Grumulkin

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Developing the correct load
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2006, 08:27:27 AM »
In my experience and after trying multiple powders, I've come to like IMR 4064 the best for the .308 Winchester.  Choosing the right powder can make a considerable difference in group size.  I've also had better luck in getting the 165 & 168 grain bullets to shoot accurately in the .308 and those should be plenty good out to 200 yards and beyond.

About he only time I shoot a centerfire rifle at 50 yards is when I've just put a scope on it for initial sighting in otherwise all my target shooting is at least at a distance of 100 yards.  If you plan to shoot at 200 yards, practice at 200 yards would be the best.

When you hunt, it's usually the first bullet that counts the most.  I would recommend that you know where your rifle shoots on the first shot out of a cold barrel; it's likely to be different than after the barrel has warmed up.  Also, make a not of where it shoots with a clean vs a dirty barrel.

Shooting from the bench is great for determining a loads accuracy but also practice prone, kneeling, with shooting sticks or by whatever other means you intend to use in hunting.

Offline Don Fischer

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Developing the correct load
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2006, 10:15:46 AM »
My experience is also to use the 165gr bullet. 4064 has been a great powder for me but I've also had great luck with 3031, BLC2 and Win748.

Oop's! 4064 and 3031 are IMR powders. I'd just guess someone else is using the same numbers with a different brand.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]