Author Topic: Fact or Fiction? (Read 2929 times)

one$$shot · « **on:** March 15, 2006, 05:28:49 AM »

I would never in a million years try this. I've heard many different "Old Timers" over the years make this remark.

"Those old break open single shot shotguns almost never shoot staight. Just find a nice Y branch in an oak tree and give the barrel a little bend until it shoots the way you want it too!".

I didn't want to offend any of them out of respect for my elders so I never commented. I wanted to say: "What...are you nuts!". :-D

Is there any truth to this or is this just another old wives' tale?
I've sure heard it said plenty of times over the course of my life.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #1 on:** March 15, 2006, 05:37:08 AM »

It is either that or witdal down the stock until it fits right!

Busta · « **Reply #2 on:** March 15, 2006, 05:47:11 AM »

It's a fact. I know of a couple old timers that have done it, seems it was a very popular thing to do to adjust the POI to the POA. The two I am aware of, you cannot even tell by looking at them and they have been shooting these very shotguns since the 50's. Not with any of my guns though.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** March 15, 2006, 05:53:55 AM »

I use to shoot black powder competition at buckskin rendezvous, one of the types of shoots was tradegun which is a smoothbore flintlock with no rear sight, much like a shotgun, cept it could shoot patched round balls in addition to shot or a combination of both called buck n ball. The prescribed method of building in elevation for long shots was to bend the barrel, although I used a more subtle, controlled method than bending it in a tree crotch!!

Tim

Cookiemann · « **Reply #4 on:** March 15, 2006, 11:44:45 AM »

Must be true...You all must have seen the pics of that barrel on ebay....he just got carried away or maybe he sneezed in mid-bend...LOL

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #5 on:** March 15, 2006, 01:15:57 PM »

I've heard of guys doing that but I have never done it or witnessed such an event.

Markus · « **Reply #6 on:** March 15, 2006, 03:50:35 PM »

An olld guy that used to lived across the street from street from me when I was a teenager was a gunsmith and used to talk about doing it. I'd be scared to try it.

RemingtonMagnum · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2006, 06:34:51 AM »

The only bad barrel I have ever had was a Double 20. I stretched it across the center of my Bar B Que Pit. With the hump up. NO that did not help it but sure did hold the Bar B Que wire in place well.

Don Jackson Remington Magnum/Ultramag

Critter · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2006, 06:50:45 AM »

The fixture that gunsmiths use to straighten barrels or adjust POI is not much more complicated than a oak tree crotch. I've seen it done and helped do a couple, scared the heck out of me. Sometimes the barrel is bent by accident and must be straightened or the POI is off so much that changing the bead isn't going to do a thing for it. It's a very acceptable practice in the shotgunning world.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2006, 08:37:03 AM »

Since I took the time to write this up in a pm to one$$shot, I'll post it for anyone interested in a controlled bending/straightening method.

Tim

Quote

Subject: Re: Bending the barrel?
I made some cradles for each end of the barrel by drilling a barrel diameter hole in a piece of oak, then cutting the piece in half bisecting the hole. Place a half under each end of the barrel, then use a large C-clamp near the middle with another cradle positioned on top of the barrel to protect it from the clamp. Tighten the clamp until the barrel bends some, it will flex back some, so you'll need to bend it past what it will eventually stay at. You'll need a very stout work surface, I used a steel I-beam used for straightening car frames, but a sturdy work bench or maybe a 4x4 would work, too. I used shims under one end of the barrel cradles so I could control the exact amount of bend, tightened the clamp so the barrel touched the work surface each time. For shims I used pieces of ¼" plywood, veneer and then sheet metal until I got the amount of bend in the barrel that I wanted. I just used a 4' steel ruler on top of the barrel when checking the bend, you can see the gap the bend creates.

willysjeep134 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2006, 07:38:03 AM »

I've seen in some gunsmithing books (The Modern Gunsmith volume 1 and 2) where they used to eyeball the straightness of rifle barrels and used a big screw powered clamp type thing to make the barrel run true. I guess on a highly polished surface with the right light and a trained eye they could get some really straight barrels. Not saying you should put a forty degree bend in the shotgun so you can shoot at rising birds faster or anything, but a few fractions of a degree done by somebody who knows what they are doing might help some guns.

one$$shot · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2006, 09:44:28 AM »

Here it is sports fans! I had very little trouble forming it (I don't like the word "bend"). It took me three times (trial and error) to get the POI to match the POA. :grin:

The hardest part was making the jig to do it. I didn't use oak because I didn't have any. I used what I had. I have no idea what kind of wood it is but I bet pine would work also. The metal isn't brittle at all. The barrel is very resilient like a big spring. Just as quickdtoo said I took it a little at a time bending passed the point and the barrel springs back a little each time.

Rocket science it's not. I just had to get the guts to try it. After all, I've got $40.00 into this thing. It would be a financial disaster indeed if I'd failed.

Sticking it in the crotch of a tree is out of the question still!

:grin:

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2006, 10:29:05 AM »

There's no substitute for good old Yankee ingenuity!!!

Good work!! :wink:

Tim

one$$shot · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2006, 11:15:29 AM »

Thanks Tim. I appreciate the help. I wouldn't/couldn't have done it without your guidance. The reason this gun was "for sale" was because it shot so low. No one wanted it. It probably spent more time "for sale" at gun shows than it did in the field.

Chuck

Busta · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2006, 05:32:24 PM »

one$$shot,

Did you try to lower the front sight first, filing it down or was it that far out of wack?

Mitchell,

The old timers that done this did this back in the 50's with shotgun barrels for shooting slugs to POA with a bead sight. There were not alot of options available in those days that wouldn't have cost them as much as they paid for the gun in the first place. In those days you did what you needed to do to get by, there wasn't a Wal*Mart around the corner selling after market sights to fit a plain barreled shotgun like there is today.

If you own a Savage rifle, I can almost guarantee that your barrel has been tweaked in a fixture that is not much different than a crotch of a tree. How do you think they get those barrels to shoot so accurately? I have seen on video their barrel smiths tweak the barrels, then with a trained eye and a special light check them for perfection, and I'm talking every production rifle barrel that may need it. So it isn't just about putting a site on a crooked barrel and calling it good, if you want consistent accuracy you get your barrel straightened. I think you would be surprised how many barrels go through this process.

one$$shot · « **Reply #15 on:** March 19, 2006, 03:48:08 AM »

Busta: I soldered the sights (Rear and front) on myself. I've done this before and know how. I did try filing the front sight. That is a fine adjustment only. It changes the POI very little at twenty five yards. This gun was shooting five inches low and two inches to the right (at 25 yards) when I started. That is with the bead it came with. Adding the Tracker II sights didn't change this.

I centered the adjustments on the rear sight and formed the barrel according to quick's directions. It's dead nuts on at 25 yards now. I can do the fine adjustments using the rear sight adjustments and filing down the front sight at 100 yards. That will effect the 25 yard zero very little.

Critter's post also encouraged me to give it a try.

one$$shot · « **Reply #16 on:** March 19, 2006, 07:54:59 AM »

I just came back in from shooting. I shot some Remington $1.99 a box foster slugs (1 oz.) along with some Federal Tru-Ball fosters (1 oz.). They shoot almost identical.

Shooting at a paper rifle target at 25 yards was right on the money. I can shoot two slugs through the same hole almost. I moved my target out to 50 yards. Almost the same thing except I was hitting about an inch low and about a half an inch to the left. I adjusted the rear sight about 3/32nd's to the right (set screw). That corrected shooting to the left.

I then aimed about an inch high and drilled the center of the bullseye. Sure felt good. Then I launched a load of double ought buckshot at it. Oh my! 00 Buck is some nasty stuff. Nice pattern even at fifty yards. Then I launched some #6's at it. The paper target was entirely covered from corner to corner. I then moved my target back to twenty five yards and still right on the money. Right now I don't really care how it's shooting at 100 yards. That's what my rifle is for. I'm going to call it good enough.

Ya think?

Maybe its one of those things you just can't put down. :grin:

MSP Ret · « **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2006, 01:11:05 PM »

great shooting one$$hot, with shooting like that with foster style slugs from a smoothbore you have earned your name!!! I use a similar setup for deer with shotguns and don't feel the need (in the cover I hunt) for rifled barrels and sabots for $15 - $18 for a box of 5. It is nice to know though that members here are shooting the USH's and sabots accurately out to 150-180 yards and even beyond, for where I hunt however a smoothbore does fine....<><.... :grin:

WV_Hillbilly · « **Reply #18 on:** March 26, 2006, 06:42:18 PM »

Quote from: one$$shot

"Those old break open single shot shotguns almost never shoot staight. Just find a nice Y branch in an oak tree and give the barrel a little bend until it shoots the way you want it too!".

I didn't want to offend any of them out of respect for my elders so I never commented. I wanted to say: "What...are you nuts!". :-D

Is there any truth to this or is this just another old wives' tale?
I've sure heard it said plenty of times over the course of my life.

As you are finding out, it is NOT a crazy idea, and yes, bending the barrels to align POI with POA, works! This procedure is done on very expensive Colt Single Action Army Revolvers also, as the fixed sights almost never are aligned with the POI of the variety of ammo used. I'm sure there are a LOT of odd sounding procedures that we would shudder at if we knew that they were being done--especially on expensive pieces!

whatever works....
WV_Hillbilly

MSP Ret · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2006, 01:45:14 AM »

many years ago when my agency used S&W revolvers, before I retired and I used to shoot on the pistol team I would occasionally go to the S&W plant in Springfield, MA. We could walk into the custom or repair section and fine gunsmiths there would redo our duty weapons while we waited and watched. They would be shot at the factory to check POA/POI as part of the process. Our duty weapons during that time were S&W .357 Magnum 4" 6 shot revolvers with "battle" non adjustable sights, the revolvers were first blued and later the stainless version. We shot competitive combat matches and used our duty weapons. The trained gunsmiths at S&W would adjust POA/POI by striking the barrel with a piece of "babbitt metal", a heavy hunk of metal similar to a small hand held ingot of softer than steel composite metal which would adjust the POI, it looked odd at first, a trained gunsmith whacking away at a barrel with a hunk of metal but it was how it was done. They could also adjust the fit and function of the yoke and crane the same way. I have no doubts that adjusting a shotgun, or even a rifle barrel by bending would work fine. I do remember seeing a picture of a gunsmith or technician at the old Springfield Armory straightening or trueing up an '03 Springfield rifle barrel using an adjustment method which was nothing more than a yoke that held the barrel at each end and a threaded shaft with an adjustment wheel which would bend the barrel while he peered through it to get it straight....<><.... :grin:

Hammerspur · « **Reply #20 on:** April 06, 2006, 02:13:44 AM »

DEFINITELY FACT

I've read about it in several books. It was a regular procedure on many old time single action, fixed sight wheelguns to get them to shoot to point of aim.

I did it myself on a Huntsman .58 cal which grouped acceptably but beyond the range of sight adjustment (windage).

I used framing lumber braces padded with leather and a hydraulic jack for fine control of bending... worked out good! :-)

I heard from one 'sage' that it would return to original condition in time, which it did not. Where he got THAT idea is beyond me...barrels aren't made of 'memory' metals! :?