Author Topic: TC Omega Accuracy Issues (Read 5441 times)

djmbow · « **Reply #30 on:** March 28, 2006, 02:01:38 AM »

str8shooter48,

Pretty interesting stuff------I didn't realize Hornady made the Shockwave for Thompson.
Is this the same bullet AKA the Hornady SST?
Randy Wakeman doesn't think too much of the SST does he?
When I talked to the tech at the Thompson Center factory, I had a long discussion with him about bullets, because I was trying to avoid some of the problems other were having getting various bullet/sabot combinations down the barrel of their Omegas.
I specifically asked him if he knew what the bore diameter of the Omega was as it came off the assembly line and he told me it was approximately .508".
Since I already knew others were having difficulty loading 45 cal.,.451" dia. Hornady XTP's in their Omegas, I selected the 44cal. ,.429" XTP with the green MMP sabot, because I read someplace where they would load easier, since you could compress the smaller diameter bullet/sabot more as you pushed it down the barrel.
I did not find this to be true in my Omega, they still loaded very hard.
I realize that I could have bought different sabots for my XTP's, ( i.e. MMP HPH24's, Harvester Crush Ribs etc.), but I was having such big time accuracy problems, I wanted to deal with this issue first.
The Thompson guy assured me the Omega would shoot the Shockwave bullet accurately out to 100 yards when he finished with it, so I said what the hell, let him try.
I just totaled it up and not counting my transportation costs from MA to New Hampshire (we can't get black powder components shipped to MA), I've already spent about $130.00 for powder, bullets, primers etc. trying to get this Omega to shoot and I'm just plain worn out.

Two Bears · « **Reply #31 on:** March 28, 2006, 05:23:41 AM »

Quote from: AndyHass

The notion that a 50cal is a 50cal is a fallacy. T/C don't have tight bores any more than other manufacturers have loose bores (I had a Traditions I felt unsafe relying on the DC bullets to stay on the powder).

I've personally taken a caliper to the bores of 5 different brands of "50cal" ML. Guess what? The variation might surprise you...

Centerfire bores are very standardize by the requirement of the ammunition. ML bores are less standardize due to the forgiveness of their ammunition. It is up to the shooter to pick a bullet/sabot combo that both fits and is accurate in their bore. C'mon, it's just an excuse to get more bench time

Then explain the issue that the T/C Omega has with the difficulty loading an barrel when no other manufacture has this "problem".

Why is it that I have tried 3 Omegas and all of them had this "problem" and when I tried a Encore 209X50 I did NOT have this problem? I think that there are issues here.....

If it is not the tightness in the bore please tell all of us what the "problem" is so the issue comes to light and a solution can be found.
As I would really like to have an Omega that will allow me to re-load and shoot again.

djmbow · « **Reply #32 on:** March 28, 2006, 09:38:46 AM »

Right on! Two Bears.

I be listening too--------------

UtahRob · « **Reply #33 on:** March 28, 2006, 02:40:45 PM »

The T.C. Xtp Mag Sabots My boys and I shoot have Hornady Sabots that are very thin . My oldest son has a T.C omega and they load in his gun just fine. :grin: One day we forgot to bring patches :cry: so we each shot around 30 shot each with out cleaning our guns without any problems. I just ordered 100 Hornady sabots and 100 XTP 300 grnbullets to use in our guns.

Rob.

djmbow · « **Reply #34 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:27:52 PM »

Holy Smokes, 30 shots without cleaning!
I coudn't get a 22 cal. bullet down the bore of my 50 cal. Omega if I shot it half that many times without cleaning it.
Let us know how those 300 gr. XTP's work out, especially in the Omega.
What powder load were you using?

UtahRob · « **Reply #35 on:** March 28, 2006, 04:22:51 PM »

My oldest son just left today from Salt Lake for a Two year mission for our church so his Omega with not be shot until he returns. He was using 120 grns of Pyrodex ffg and my youngest son uses 90 grns in his Optima and I use 100 in my Tradition pursuit pro. The 300 grn xtp bullet is what we have been using from the start. So the bullets and Sabots that I ordered are the same. We do use Kleanbore primers so I don't know if that's what made it possible to shoot so many shots with out cleaning the barrels. When I don't forget the patches I clean my gun with two spit patches and One dry between every shot. I do want to try some other powder. I would like to use something that has less odor :eek: ( the wife is about to kick use out) :cry: and less corrosive. I hope what ever powder I use , it shoots as good as the Pyrodex . Right know my Pursuit pro is a Nail driver!!

Can you tell me what powder is the least corrosive ??
How about American P.Powder or Black mag 3 ?

Take care -Rob

Two Bears · « **Reply #36 on:** March 29, 2006, 04:05:34 AM »

I used the BM3 this year and it is cleaner but I don't rember what it smells like but it is not like rotton eggs.

It is very expensive!!! About $31.00 a pound!!!

After I use this pound of BM3 up I won't use it anymore because of cost, I have bought a truck load of Pyrodex from Walmart when they had it on closeout for only $5.00 a pound :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: So I probably won't use anything else for about 12 years :shock: ( I can't wait for my son to get old enough to help me burn some of this powder, he is 4 now).

UtahRob · « **Reply #37 on:** March 29, 2006, 03:30:19 PM »

I also got 5 lbs of powder at Walmart at 5.00 each and Hornady sabots $3.00 for 30. At the end of the hunting season they drop the prices like crazy. I got a CVA Optima for $78.00 :shock: and a TC Omega for $109.00. :shock:
It made it possible for me to get 2 guns for my boys for less than the price of one.

Take Care-Rob

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #38 on:** March 29, 2006, 09:08:33 PM »

My Omega bore slugged exactly .500. It is a bear to load with any combination other than .451 bullets in Harvester sabots. I think the problem may be that the rifleing cuts in the Omega barrel are a little less deep compared with other muzzleloading barrels. There is just less area for the plastic to form to. The Omega is a tack driver but the inability to load many of the over the counter combinations is irritating. I have other muzzleloaders that do not exibit this resistance to loading. My Omega will not shoot Tripple Seven without major problems. Black Mag'3 is made for the Omega. If I want to shoot a second shot it has to be with Black Mag'3 and a Powerbelt bullet which I carry one just for follow up shots if necessary.

toytruck · « **Reply #39 on:** March 31, 2006, 03:29:52 PM »

Quote from: UtahRob

The T.C. Xtp Mag Sabots My boys and I shoot have Hornady Sabots that are very thin . My oldest son has a T.C omega and they load in his gun just fine. :grin: One day we forgot to bring patches :cry: so we each shot around 30 shot each with out cleaning our guns without any problems. I just ordered 100 Hornady sabots and 100 XTP 300 grnbullets to use in our guns.

Rob.

For what it's worth I also ordered some .50/.452/300 XTP's/Harvester crushrib sabots and shot them today in my Encore. I have had this gun since 2002 and this is the most accurate bullet I have shot yet. I was using two pyrodex pellets as well. Was going to play with some T7 FFg, but when the gun was grouping so tight at 50 then 100 yds. I stayed with the pellets. I cleaned between shots with .45 brush/solvent patch, some fouling, but no crud ring as compaired to T7, but pyrodex has that smell.....

The final four shots at 100 yds. were inside the bull, three were connecting holes and one was 1/2" to right.

Look out deer this fall!!!

I brought this up because the Omega and Encore have basically the same barrel. I didn't try loading without cleaning after shooting the XTP's either to see how that went, wish I had now.....

djmbow · « **Reply #40 on:** April 01, 2006, 01:20:16 AM »

I got my Omega back from the Thompson Center Repair Shop yesterday with a note attached that said "1 3/4" group at 100 yards with 250gr. Shockwaves and 100 grs. of Pyrodex".
No information about any problems found, any repairs made nothing!
I called the shop, but the guy that had worked on my gun had already left.
I got the supervisor on the phone and explained to him that I had fired this gun extensively and couldn't make it group and I wanted to know what they had done to it.
He said he didn't know, but after a lot of discussion he said that "perhaps" the technician who worked on it had "lapped the barrel" before test firing it.
I told him that I would call back on Monday when the tech was in to find out exactly what he did to the gun.
In the meantime, I bought some Pyrodex and some 250gr. Shockwaves and I'm going to the range today to see if I can re-produce the results that Thompson said they got.
I am highly doubtful that I will--------

Two Bears · « **Reply #41 on:** April 01, 2006, 04:54:36 AM »

Back when I talked to T/C about my Omegas re-loading problems the guy told me that everyone at T/C had to lapp thier Omega barrels just so that they could get the Omega to re-load after the first shot !

Like I said before .....Why don't they find the problem and fix it??

If they think that lapping the barrel is the best way to fix this problem, why then don't they open up the bore to a larger size by a thousandnts of an inch or maybe a wee bit more so the customer does not have such a bull$hit time trying to get the gun to function?

I also told him that the average hunting customer does not want, need, or have to swab between shots as it is not practical and the they have expectations that they can go out and just shoot the gun and not have to mess with this swabbing thing....Unless the customer is a bench/target shooter who expects to swab between shots...He did agree.

Keep in mind that no other muzzleloader has this problem and you can shoot the others for a half a day before you would have to swab the barrel or clean it......I have tried PILES of other inline muzzleloaders over the last 20 years and not seen this problem.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #42 on:** April 01, 2006, 10:29:09 AM »

Quote from: Two Bears

Back when I talked to T/C about my Omegas re-loading problems the guy told me that everyone at T/C had to lapp thier Omega barrels just so that they could get the Omega to re-load after the first shot !

Like I said before .....Why don't they find the problem and fix it??

If they think that lapping the barrel is the best way to fix this problem, why then don't they open up the bore to a larger size by a thousandnts of an inch or maybe a wee bit more so the customer does not have such a bull$hit time trying to get the gun to function?

I also told him that the average hunting customer does not want, need, or have to swab between shots as it is not practical and the they have expectations that they can go out and just shoot the gun and not have to mess with this swabbing thing....Unless the customer is a bench/target shooter who expects to swab between shots...He did agree.

Keep in mind that no other muzzleloader has this problem and you can shoot the others for a half a day before you would have to swab the barrel or clean it......I have tried PILES of other inline muzzleloaders over the last 20 years and not seen this problem.

Just be glad there are choices out there. Who in thier right mind would buy a piece of crap T/C when they can buy a CVA. :roll:

Two Bears · « **Reply #43 on:** April 01, 2006, 01:58:51 PM »

Quote from: str8shooter48

Quote from: Two Bears
Back when I talked to T/C about my Omegas re-loading problems the guy told me that everyone at T/C had to lapp thier Omega barrels just so that they could get the Omega to re-load after the first shot !

Like I said before .....Why don't they find the problem and fix it??

If they think that lapping the barrel is the best way to fix this problem, why then don't they open up the bore to a larger size by a thousandnts of an inch or maybe a wee bit more so the customer does not have such a bull$hit time trying to get the gun to function?

I also told him that the average hunting customer does not want, need, or have to swab between shots as it is not practical and the they have expectations that they can go out and just shoot the gun and not have to mess with this swabbing thing....Unless the customer is a bench/target shooter who expects to swab between shots...He did agree.

Keep in mind that no other muzzleloader has this problem and you can shoot the others for a half a day before you would have to swab the barrel or clean it......I have tried PILES of other inline muzzleloaders over the last 20 years and not seen this problem.

Just be glad there are choices out there. Who in thier right mind would buy a piece of crap T/C when they can buy a CVA. :roll:

You are funny as HELL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

djmbow · « **Reply #44 on:** April 01, 2006, 02:20:19 PM »

Picked up two boxes of 250gr. Shockwaves and a pound of Pyrodex and headed to the range with my recently returned Omega.
Using 100grs. (by volume) of Pyrodex and swabbing between shots, the first group of three rounds grouped about 3", but were about 8" above the point of aim.
The group size was was a bit encouraging, but it's location on the target indicated to me that Thompson had made no attempt to zero the rifle in at 100 yards before returning it to me.
I adjusted the elevation on the scope down by 6 clicks and the first two shots were in the black (3" bull). The next two shots were 3" above the bull and the next 3 shots were 4 to 5" above the bull.
I moved the target in to 50 yards and the first shot was in the black.
The second and third shots were 2" and 4" above the bull respectively.
At this point I quit shooting, packed up my gear and went home.
My conclusion is that the gun seems to shoot "slightly" better than it did before I sent it to Thompson, but still would not produce the 1 3/4" groups they claim they got at 100 yards.
Should be an interesting conversation with the Thompson Repair Shop on Monday morning.

Two Bears · « **Reply #45 on:** April 02, 2006, 05:45:00 AM »

Quote from: djmbow

Picked up two boxes of 250gr. Shockwaves and a pound of Pyrodex and headed to the range with my recently returned Omega.
Using 100grs. (by volume) of Pyrodex and swabbing between shots, the first group of three rounds grouped about 3", but were about 8" above the point of aim.
The group size was was a bit encouraging, but it's location on the target indicated to me that Thompson had made no attempt to zero the rifle in at 100 yards before returning it to me.
I adjusted the elevation on the scope down by 6 clicks and the first two shots were in the black (3" bull). The next two shots were 3" above the bull and the next 3 shots were 4 to 5" above the bull.
I moved the target in to 50 yards and the first shot was in the black.
The second and third shots were 2" and 4" above the bull respectively.
At this point I quit shooting, packed up my gear and went home.
My conclusion is that the gun seems to shoot "slightly" better than it did before I sent it to Thompson, but still would not produce the 1 3/4" groups they claim they got at 100 yards.
Should be an interesting conversation with the Thompson Repair Shop on Monday morning.

It might be your scope.....I have seen a few scopes lose zero before and it makes sighting in a pain in the a$$.

Try shooting your Omega with just the iron sights and shoot at a large black circle so you have something to aim at ( 10 inch ) it will help because the factory fiber optic sights are really large and will cover most targets at 100 yards.

Let us know how you do then.

How is the trigger pull? is it hard?

AndyHass · « **Reply #46 on:** April 02, 2006, 11:54:11 AM »

They didn't need to zero the scope just to see how it was grouping; if I were them I wouldn't have messed with a customer's scope setting just to check grouping. Beyond that, scopes can and do shift when shipped. I doubt you have a $1000 scope on a ML, so that's always a possibility.

Remember that T/C likely has someone checking that gun who does it to several each day. They likely also have a perfect sightin-in setup with a gun vise or shooting bench. Therefore, if they say 1.75" and you go out and shoot off a couple rice bags, picnic table, whatever, you're probably shooting off an inferior setup (and you're not used to shooting dozens of Omegas). Therefore, you getting a 3" group does not surprise me.

Hopefully it will start to behave for you. Every inline I've owned has shot noticeably better after the first 150-200 rounds went through the barrel...whether it was from me learning the gun or barrel break-in I can't say!

Doublejake · « **Reply #47 on:** April 02, 2006, 09:47:03 PM »

My Omega cuts Bullet holes at 100yrds with 245 grain Hornady bullets sabot combo and 100 grain pyrodex pellets. I just with I could do the same with my Remington 700 30-06. Sorry to hear someone has a different experience.