Author Topic: Images of my Exploded Cannon! (Read 4174 times)

Eddiehorror · « **on:** March 23, 2006, 04:23:39 AM »

There Are A lot more. PM for more if you want them. about 26megs of high res photos.

Tropico · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2006, 05:28:02 AM »

I would like to see "In" the breach and "Inside" the barrel.
It looks to me to be a cast iron "Hollow" yard ornamate? the concrete at the breach is "Cut: straight" meaning it looks like someone filled it with about a cup of concrete while it was upright is my guess? Your lucky. this is not a cannon at all.,but rather a decoration.

I am glad your still with us., that looks dangerous.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2006, 05:59:01 AM »

I agree, it should never have seen the first grain of blackpowder.

Yard orniment. Would have been better if it were cast of concrete in it's entirety.

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2006, 06:27:56 AM »

Holy Smokes look how thin those walls are and a casting. Yard Ornament never meant to be fired!!!

I and going to link the post to the accident report post.

Wow, no one hurt!

claypipe · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2006, 06:48:06 AM »

Bloody lucky you did have a fatality or any injuries! That's definitely a lawn decoration.

And while I would not recommend sand for wadding, this piece never should have seen powder. One glance at those thin barrel walls would give it away as a strictly cosmetic piece.

Hopefully this did not occur at an event. This is down right scary. I do cannon and gonne demos, and I don't mean to be rude, but you need to go back to square one.

Do you have a copy of The More Complete Cannoneer by M. C Switlik? If not, then you definitely should invest in a copy.

Then start looking at the many CW cannoneer sites. Notice, I said cannoneer, not cannon.

Massachusetts, with its laws, has set the pace for cannoneering. We are required to have seamless steel liners by law. Then we must either magna flux or x-ray our tubes before they can be brought into service.

The load was used in the cannon that blew up was 500gr or 1.1oz it hade a 1.5" bore and was 18" long. the load was packed with a bread wad. This has worked for years. this time we added sand to see a bang.

Gives me the willies at just the thought of this in that piece.

Lord Graywolf and I have been working hard to gain the trust of local faires so that we can gain access and do demos. If someone had gotten harmed by this incident, this would have slammed shut the doors we have managed to open up.

Don't get me wrong, I salute your ambition, but people need to understand the difference between a field piece and a yard piece.

CP
Gonnemeister
http://www.handgonne.com

Eddiehorror · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2006, 07:27:51 AM »

You are all indeed right it was a yard ornament. Since it was blasted I have done Extensive research. It was purchased in a bulk order from Xiang Xshi China and sent in a cargo container with 143 others just like it to Durham NC to a shipping company where they were divided and sent around to various states. Mine was purchased in a Bulk order of 12 by a P#%er M$^&hester and sold with 5 others to a Mr. R*&(rt G(*&eston in Sarasota FL and then Purchased by my friend Gary. He drilled Vents and filled the back end with molten lead.

The specifics are there to show that I am more than capable of doing research. I found all of this out for the shape of the wheel on the original carriage.

As for it being fire able, I was not aware of its original purpose and it fired very well for years. Scary to think now that it was never meant to. But it worked and it worked well for noise and appearance.

I have been working with pistols and long rifles for years and I am proud to say that I am well versed. As for Cannons I am a novice and I have approached this group of my peers for insight as well as council and advice. Many of you have been more than helpful and few of you have taken personal time to help me with projects. And for that I thank you.

I am not one to be lectured. I made a mistake, and unlike some I can still admit I make them, and I remember that others still do as well. I get the impression that a few folks around here do not make mistakes and have the omniscience to foresee all error and avoid it. I wish one day for this gift.

As for getting into faires and closing doors. I guess it is good that I am a manager for the largest faire company in the USA. I open the doors and I close them. glad to say I have still left them open and the local cannon club coming in for a demo for the next few weeks are very professional and learned people. It is not one group or one incident that causes a national standard. It is a group that chooses to gather behind it for inconvenience.

Thanks to most of you.

And yes we were all about 7 feet away and I am glad that we all walked away without a scratch. PM for more images.

Will Bison · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2006, 08:07:37 AM »

Thanks for sharing the photos with all of us. Excellent photography by the way.

I've never seen a tube failure until now. Hearing about them is one thing but viewing the evidence is a valuable lesson.

Last Fall I saw a .50 Barrett suffer a catastrophic failure and that put two folks in hospital. No permanent injury to either person.

Bill

Santa Dave · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2006, 08:13:40 AM »

Maybe those photos(with an explanation) should be "stickied" as a safety
training kinda thing! I KNOW they got MY attention! (work up loads & use longer fuses!)
We could leave off the members name (If he wished)
Thank Saint Barbara No one was killed or worse!

Dave

Tropico · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2006, 08:47:28 AM »

After reading all these posts., I am still trying to figure out who and how anyone tried to "Lecture" you? I just didnt see it in any of the posts?
So I will try to accomodate your invitation.

Quote

Hi all my name is ed. I have been involved with black powder since Â’00 I have learned many trick of the trade and I have become the man to go to with a gun problem in my small circle of enthusiasts.

Quote

We are Primarily Pirate and renaissance actors who use the guns to fire only powder and a bread or tissue wad.

Your saying your a re-enactor.,this means you do this at events? With people around.,and no-one noticed it was a yard ornamate ? Have you actually ever been to a military museum., or a city park or anything with a real cannon .
I am a pirate re-enactor as well., we cruise Lady Washington., and the Hawiian Chieftain every chance we get., and anyone with ANY gun experience can see the differance., between those cannon and a yard ornamate? come on.
500 grain is stepping pretty Big for an 18" very very light (Hollow ) gun., as a gun enthuisist you know that.
No-one here picked on you., but you are opening the door with your own professionalism and whats been posted.

Yes mistakes are made.,
1. I forgot to bring the powder = mistake.
2. I forgot wadding = mistake.
3. Where is the fuse = mistake.
4. We forgot to clean the gun yesterday = mistake.
But we loaded 500 grains of BP into a yard decoration is not a mistake., not for a seasoned fire arm person this is a complete and utter farse., and the other re-enactors need schooled in re-enacting as well.
No-one on your pirating crew really knows about cannoneering ? doesnt sound like a group whos really on top of thier game in the re-enacting ., savvy?

Sounds like some "extensive research was in order.

Quote

The specifics are there to show that I am more than capable of doing research. I found all of this out for the shape of the wheel on the original carriage.

You wont be shooting with me anytime soon.

Here I am having a bit of fun at the port aft of the Lynx after having just let one go at 'the Lady Washington"

Kuntrykouple · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2006, 09:06:19 AM »

Quote

It is not one group or one incident that causes a national standard. It is a group that chooses to gather behind it for inconvenience.

Well Hmmm I guess Ill be the one to say it..... I beg to differ in opinion on this topic. Cannons and mortars are fired, I'm going to say, somewhere in the United States daily. We fire at least once a day if not 5-8 times a day we fire every cannon we produce. BUT It takes just one accident to make the local or even national news to have the every eye in the nation looking at us as though we are crazy or dangerous. I in no doubt you did your reaserch as to the as to the origin of your barrel and trying to make it as original as possable. But all of this was done on the computer phone or from behind a desk. No doubtedly took hours and hours of research but with a simple 5 minute inspection of THE BARREL would have proven it unsafe.
The advice these men give is from the field no matter there area of expertise either it be Machinist, Mettalurgist, Former or active artillerist in the millitary, 98% of them have experiance firing these pieces. Many have not one but 2-4-6-8-9-20 cannons or mortars. Research on the wheels is no where near the top of the need to know page when it comes to firing BPC&M althogh at the end of a project it is first start with the basics the barrel.
Because belive it or not 1 incedent may not cause national uproar and legistlation but what about another and another and so on.

But dont take it as being lectured..... when these men and women tell you wow you are lucky... or i would have never fired that. They are really telling you congratulations you have more guts than we do.
If you have kids ....... Go hug them.

Eddiehorror · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2006, 09:27:11 AM »

In response to KuntryKuple(sp) thank you I understand what you are saying. I joined the group to find out more about cannons as I admitted I was a novice. I have never once claimed to be an expert on cannons or artillery. As A matter of fact I am glad to get the advice of you and yours. so once again thank you.

As for Tropico. I was not saying you lectured or were even in that arena, but why you would take it upon yourself to lecture me...i have no idea feel free to carry on. Your lecturing me is comprable to lecturing an infant for not playing violin. If you were offended I am sorry, but I was not offering a lecture forum. I was simply replying to a comment posted by someone other than you. And since I do not frequent WA or the Phillipines I am not sure I would be shooting with you anyway. All people must start somewhere, that is a lesson you should learn and not be so quick to judge. I have seen these very barrels used for over a decade, and used by the former head of TAE in central florida. He was a Artillerist for 24 years in the USMC. He said "it is a thin Barrel but for noise it is just fine". I value his and your opinion even though they are opposing.

claypipe · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:22:11 AM »

Quote from: Eddiehorror

As for Tropico. I was not saying you lectured or were even in that arena, but why you would take it upon yourself to lecture me...i have no idea feel free to carry on. Your lecturing me is comprable to lecturing an infant for not playing violin. If you were offended I am sorry, but I was not offering a lecture forum. I was simply replying to a comment posted by someone other than you. And since I do not frequent WA or the Phillipines I am not sure I would be shooting with you anyway. All people must start somewhere, that is a lesson you should learn and not be so quick to judge. .

I stand by Tropico. As for him "lecturing an infant for not playing violin." One, you are no infant, but an adult, and as such should have taken the time to research what you were getting into. Two, these are not simple makers of joyful noise. They are the voice of life and death. Cannons do not suffer ignorance or arrogrance. It is sheer luck and the hand of the Eternal that none were injured or killed.

Quote from: Eddiehorror

I have seen these very barrels used for over a decade, and used by the former head of TAE in central florida. He was a Artillerist for 24 years in the USMC. He said "it is a thin Barrel but for noise it is just fine". I value his and your opinion even though they are opposing.

He may have been an USMC Artillerist for 24 years, but, he's not a cannoneer. And yes there is definitely a difference. He shoved preloaded, pre-inspected shells into a pre-manufactured, pre-inspected field piece. And if he is using the same barrel, it only serves to illustrate that point. Hopefully you will notify the person or persons that you know to be using these garden decorations and they will spike and cement them up.

And if it is me, as the lecturer, that you are referring to, I stand by every word that I have posted.

GGaskill · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:24:01 AM »

It's interesting to think that these barrels could be made safe to use by drilling and sleeving with a steel liner. You don't need a large bore for noise unless you are trying to wake the dead.

claypipe · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:31:19 AM »

I doubt one could sleeve one of these. The walls are far too thin. When the sleeve swells on firing, the cast iron would shatter. Switlik talks about that happening in his book.

CP

Eddiehorror · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:35:49 AM »

Actually G I wish I still had the pictures of the one they tried to sleeve for projectile firing. Two shots into it the sleeve fired clean out the back end. I was a interesting picture and it made them jump. I was not around at the time. But i have heard the story. I am proud to say I have never tried to fire so much as a marble from this cannon.

As for the Lecturing, guys let it go. I have said my sorrys to tropico.

Tropico · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:15:55 PM »

No need to say sorry to me., I am o.k. with all of this. Its a democracy.

Only one thing to do Eddiehorror just continue being a board member., ask questions.,as you go on this new cannon., (The dixie napoleon) from the people on the board., and please post photos too.
That cannon is a real one. Its alot more barrel .,I would be happy with it.

I am no expert and I love this board., you will too if you dont already. I get so excited when i get or see a new cannon i am working on come to life.., however I get excited to see what others are doing just as much. i cant help it.,I love it., and so does everyone else here., and you must too. So please post them and remember I am learning too. i just got a mortar., I never had one before.,so.,i have much to learn about it., before that i got a 1" 1/3 scale little cannon., 22" in length., for it I had to learn "That particular gun". I got my first cannon in 1990., a 30" old english swivel., But I only know 'that gun" I am not a cannon expert at all., that would mean I know alot about alot., and I do not. So I am learning too.

I consider myself a cannon virgin.,see what i do know is we are alone kind of here as people who like .,want and will collect and shoot cannons.., see the majority of the people here I have found Make Cannons....,So I feel priveledged to participate in watching this reborn art form develop from these Black Powder Artisans. You are dealing with not only cannoneers here but metalurgists.,machinists and other assorted metal and explosives experienced people here.

One pirate to another cheers mate.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2006, 01:17:22 PM »

You would think that the manufacturers of this type of cannon would make them in a way that they could never be fired.

GGaskill · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2006, 02:15:18 PM »

It was purchased in a bulk order from Xiang Xshi China...

They don't have an excess of tort lawyers there. (-:

Probably pretty hard for the average Chinese citizen to get black powder, too.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2006, 03:48:12 PM »

Quote

You would think that the manufacturers of this type of cannon would make them in a way that they could never be fired.

Hmm..... not having a vent might qualify. Of course only making the bore half the length of the barrel would have been better.

Double D · « **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2006, 05:33:42 PM »

This has to be the most important post we have ever had on this board.

This is the first cannon accident we have reported on our board, and I hope the only.

Eddie made a mistake and he showed us the results of that mistake. Eddie I thank you for having the courage to put yourself in such an embarassing postion to share this incident for all our safety.

It's obvious to me that Eddie doesn't need to be lectured by us. I get the feeling every time he looks at the pile of scrap metal he lectures himself. Lectures over learning stop now.

This post has been linked to the Cannon Accidents sticky at the top of the board.

I can't condem Eddie. I have been there, I have done that. When I started shootng cannons 20 some odd years ago, cannon shooting information was hard to find. With the help of the internet and hopefully boards like ours more information is getting out there into the right hand before there is an accident.

Thanks Eddie.

Cannonmaker · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2006, 07:55:35 PM »

Some very interesting reading on this post. Every insident should be as a learning experance. When someone says they know everything about something, watch out, something will go wrong. It's much easeier to learn from someone else's experence, and less painfull. Just takes one little oversite for one big problem to arise. With 35 years of the School of Hard Knocks I have had my share of "Learning", and generally at a cost.

Allways good to see another sunset.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2006, 12:55:31 AM »

Now y'all see in pictures what TWO of us have experienced.

No pictures of the one I saw (from 15' away with 4 other people - fortunately behind the cannon) some 44 years ago.

It was a 1" bore bronze signal cannon - being warmed up on the 3rd of July for the big event. Perhaps a bit too much packing. The ONLY piece left was from the center of the fuse hole back. One piece tore up the turf for SEVENTY paces. No one hurt seriously. One small (as small as the period at the end of the sentence in my brother's shoulder); a piece the size of a pencil lead 1/8" long in my finger - didn't know about it until 3 years later when it worked itself out).

Eddie - thanks for posting the pictures! Good illustrations of why I have said many times, "you need to know whether it's a cannon or a bomb to which you're lighting the fuse."

kappullen · « **Reply #22 on:** March 25, 2006, 04:46:59 AM »

This is a serious problem Eddie has brought to light.

This is a "cannon" I bought off ebay a month or so ago for $9.99.

This cannon has a bore and is vented.

These are coming over by the container load from the far east.

This could get the hobby in a world of trouble if someone gets hurt.

A similar event happened in the Live Steam Hobby when an engine blew up in Ohio killing three people including a police officer.
This engine had failed inspection in several states and ended up in Ohio.
Ohio had no inspection law at that time.

Insurance prices have skyrocketed for steam clubs since that time.

Kap

GGaskill · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2006, 09:42:06 AM »

Someone should track down the importer and give him a lesson in cannon explosions and liability law.

Kap,
Does yours look as dangerous as the one Eddie blew up? Non-cylindrical bore? Thin breech walls?

Double D · « **Reply #24 on:** July 06, 2009, 06:18:02 AM »

I have saved these pictures to my photo hosting site. In a few days I will convert them so they can be uploaded to MY HOSTED PIC.Com. I will replace the URL’s then and that way the pictures will be preserved. To get a better understanding about what happened read this post first. http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,88546.msg535327.html#msg535327

thelionspaw · « **Reply #25 on:** July 06, 2009, 07:58:25 AM »

It wasn't an "accident".

Think about it.

An accident is something inadvertent.

This was programed and encouraged to occur.

Get real!