Are DAO triggers safe?

[Terry1]

I am in the market for a carry gun. All the guns I find suitable for carry size are DAO. None of them have external safeties. This seems dangerous to me. The lack of a safety preventing the trigger from being pulled just seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Am I wrong? Please explain if I am. I really like the looks of the Kahr PM9, but I am worried about this. Thanks for your time.

[NYH1]

I have two Glocks that I carry with complete confidence. Two things you must do when carrying a DAO pistol. One carry them in a good holster that protects the trigger. Two keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot (you should do this with all guns). I really like DAO pistols (Glock's). They're simple to use. They're always in the same "condition". If you ever have to pull it out, when you put it back in your holster you don't have to remember to put the safety on! If you like the Kahr PM9 see if you can try one out.  :grin:

[Sir Knight]

I dislike the Kahr's (and the Glocks) for the same reason -- no manual safety and too lite of a trigger pull (plus, no repeat striker capability). If a Smith & Wesson 3913TSW (below top) ...



... is too big for you, consider a Colt Pocket Nine (above bottom) which is about the same size as the micro Kahrs but has a firmer trigger pull. You may also want to look at a DAO revolver (below bottom next to a Colt Pocket Nine) ...

[Win 73]

I dislike the Kahr's (and the Glocks) for the same reason -- no manual safety and too lite of a trigger pull (plus, no repeat striker capability).

Sir Knight

I agree with you.  I don't like the Glocks or any of the guns that use a similar system.  What purpose (other than satisfying the lawyers) does that safety on the trigger serve?  If nothing is touching the trigger, the gun cannot fire.  If something is touching the trigger, the safety is off.  It seems to me that the safety being there makes no difference in the actual operation of the gun.

And they can call it a double action only all they want but in reality it is a single action.  If it goes click instead of bang, you have to rack the slide to get it to fire.  I want a restrike capability.  In my personal experience, at least 4 times out of 5, a round that fails to fire on the first strike will fire on a second strike.  Often the reason for a failure to fire is that the round was not seated good in the chamber.  The first strike seats it and the second fires it.  With a double action, that second strike is almost instantaneous.  If it doesn't fire the second try, then you can rack the slide.  And you will have lost very little time.  The probability that it will fire the second time is worth taking that little time to try the second strike.

[darrell8937]

Like  ""New York Hunter"" said ,, the holster is a important safety feature in a gun like this. People who stuff their Glock in their pants amaze me. I have important stuff in there. I owned a Glock 36 and never felt comfortable. Even with a good holster that completly covers the trigger. I have always been a bit parnoid and I am not going to change. A little to old for that. They can be safe. But the need extra care. I feel more comfortable with a double action/single action with a trigger disconect and decoker. If you are a bit parniod like my self, you will never be comfortable with no external safeties.

[williamlayton]

I have no concern with a DAO or with any, follow the rules and all will be safe--Follow the rules.
I used to have important stuff in my pockets but less and less as time goes on (money too be included) :oops: .
Pocket guns are pocket guns and one needs to understand and pratice the rules the weapon plays by. Some are too big to be pocket guns anyways.
All weapons are dangerous and to find one that you consider too not be dangerous is a very dangerous situation, me think.
Blessings

[Sir Knight]

I feel more comfortable with a double action/single action with a trigger disconect and decoker. If you are a bit parniod like my self, you will never be comfortable with no external safeties.

I feel the same way EXCEPT if it has a heavy trigger pull -- likr found on the Colt Pocket Nine. Then, it is no different from carry a DA revolver.

[jgalar]

It doesn't bother some, but I do not care for the trigger mounted safety. There are plenty of more "conventional" double action/single action and double action only guns out there. The trigger pulls on a "conventional" are similar to a double action revolver - long and a bit heavier. I bought a Kel-tec P11 and am happy with the purchase. I also have a CZ75 (a little large for concealed carry in my opin) that can be carried double action or cocked and locked in single action.

If you don't feel comfortable with the trigger safety look at something else.

[Win 73]

I would still like for someone to tell me what useful purpose that safety on the trigger serves.  If nothing is touching the trigger, the gun can't fire.  If something is touching the trigger, a finger or anything, the safety is off.  As far as I am concerned, the Glock has no safety.  That part doesn't bother me.  My Ruger P97 has no safety, just a decocker.  My P97 is just like the Glock in  that if nothing is touching the trigger, the gun can't fire.  If something is touching the trigger it can fire.

The main thing I have against the Glock is no restrike capability.

[Sir Knight]

The main thing I have against the Glock is no restrike capability.

Same here. How can someone call something DOUBLE ACTION Only when pulling the trigger performs only one action?

Take the 1911, for example. Everyone agrees that it is a SINGLE ACTION design. If the hammer isn't cocked, you can pull the trigger all that you want and nothing is going to happen because pulling the trigger performs only ONE action -- dropping the hammer.

Compare that to a Glock. If the striker hasn't been pre-primed/set, pulling the trigger will do nothing because a pull on the trigger performs only one action -- to drop the hammer.

How one can call a 1911 a SINGLE Action and the Glock a DOUBLE Action (only) is beyond me.

Now, compare that to a Beretta 92/96 D model or a SIG DAK -- if the hammer is down, pulling the trigger will perform a DOUBLE action ... it will raise the hammer and also drop the hammer -- very different from the Glock. To call both of them a DAO design makes no sense.

[NYH1]

Not having a restrike capability doesn't bother me at all. If I have a round not go off I'll just rack the slide and put another round in chamber. It's a double edge sword. You can either pull the trigger again and it might fire or you chamber the next round which you might have to do anyway. I just assume get it out of the way from the get go!

There are pro's and con's to both designs. There have been incidences where trained police officers have pulled their pistols to use them and forgot to turn off the safeties. There have also been incidences where a bad guy has taken a police officers pistol and tired to shoot the officer and couldn't because the BG didn't or couldn't turn off the safety. If a Glock type pistol was used the officer would have been able use his weapon as soon as he/she needed it without worrying about the safety. The flip side is the when the BG took the officers gun he would have been able to shoot right away.

Everyone has valid points and it's good that some of these points have been brought up. Terry1 if not having an external safety bothers you that much then you might want to take a look at a Smith & Wesson (or simular design/brand) like in Sir Knight picture. You being comfortable is the most important thing. If you're not comfortable you likely won't carry as much. Heck my dad went out and bought a brand new Smith & Wesson model 60 3" 357 mag. 5 shot revolver last year.......he won't carry anything else!

[Win 73]

Still no one has told me what purpose that safety on the trigger serves.

[reelhook]

DOA triggers are a safe trigger- it's the person with their finger on the trigger that is dangerous. The trigger pull on doa is usually long and this is for a reason-think before you pull. Owners should be taught and should also practice NOT HAVING THEIR FINGER ON THE TRIGGER-except when you are going to fire the gun. It is something that has to be taught and brought to mind eact time you pick up a gun-just like checking it to see if it is loaded.
The other side to this is the fact that you don't have to scramble to see it a gun has a safety or if you know how to take it off safety when it comes down to using it!!! Practice and the practice som more. BE responsible.

[NYH1]

Still no one has told me what purpose that safety on the trigger serves.

Glock put it there to try to eliminate accidental discharges probably because a lot (if not most) people automatically put their finger "inside the trigger guard" when they draw a pistol from a holster, especially in a high stress situation. It's in the middle of the trigger. You depress the safety "fully" as you pull the trigger. If you put your finger on the side of the trigger and don't press the trigger safety the gun won't fire, again unless you've depressed the trigger safety enough. Does the trigger safety help......yes. Is it full proof....no. But then again no mechanical safety on any gun or any other type of machine is full proof.

[RedRyder21]

I am a fan of any concealable revolver.

I can't get the job done with the revolver and one re-load then I am in some pretty deep $hiI anyway!

[NYH1]

I am a fan of any concealable revolver.

I can't get the job done with the revolver and one re-load then I am in some pretty deep $hiI anyway!

Nothing wrong with that! :grin:

[Sir Knight]

You being comfortable is the most important thing. If you're not comfortable you likely won't carry as much

Exactly! When I first started carrying, my 3913TSW felt as big as a tank. I purchased a Kahr MK9 but despite the fact that it was a greater shooter, I didn't feel comfortable with it because it lacked a manual safety, had a light trigger pull and didn't have a repeat striker capability. As a result, I didn't carry it that often and/or I carried it without one in the pipe ASSUMING that I would have time to draw the gun and chamber a round in a crisis situation -- not a very good assumption to make.

Get a gun that you feel comfortable carrying.

[flash-in-the-pan]

Still no one has told me what purpose that safety on the trigger serves.

Then, let me state the obvious.

The "safety" in the trigger is there to make sure the arm is fired  ONLY BY A DELIBERATE PULL OF THE TRIGGER which, in so doing,  requires that the "safety" be depressed (that is, squeezed into line with the trigger main piece).

OK?

Flash

[Savage]

Not flaming Glocks as that is what I carry about 40% of the time, BUT, the Glock trigger safety is a joke! It's there to make points for imprort requirements. Unless you try to pull the trigger with your fingernail, you'll have enough finger on the trigger to fire the gun. In my opinion there is no real mechanial safety on the Glock. Like all other designs, you have to keep your finger, and anything else, out of the trigger guard until you are ready to fire the thing!
Savage

[jgalar]

I was going to avoid getting into this discussion in detail, but...
I agree with Savage and Win 73.
The glock, and other pistols, have the trigger safety so that the gun will only fire when the trigger is pulled. I have 45 guns, none have the trigger safety and none will fire unless the trigger is pulled.
What the trigger safety does is prevent the gun from firing if dropped.

If you train with and feel comfortable with the trigger safety then more power to ya, but I don't care for the system. You can train with and be comfortable with a standard single action with safety, or a conventional double action, or double action only. In my oppinion each sytem in the order given requires less diligence in your training.

[azmike]

I am in the market for a carry gun. All the guns I find suitable for carry size are DAO. None of them have external safeties. This seems dangerous to me. The lack of a safety preventing the trigger from being pulled just seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Am I wrong? Please explain if I am. I really like the looks of the Kahr PM9, but I am worried about this. Thanks for your time.

I carry a DAO Beretta 96 every day for work with complete confidence.  Grew up on revolvers, so I am used to a long trigger and no safety (BTW, the DAO pistols I have used almost always have better triggers than the average DA revolver out of the box).  In fact, I prefer to not have a manual safety on a carry pistol, simply because I have trained extensively without one, and I'm concerned that under stress, I would forget about the safety if I were to suddenly switch to a pistol of that type.  

IMO, the DAO pistols are perfectly safe, IF you handle your weapon safely.  My agency issues them for two reasons:

1.  The long trigger pull supposedly minimizes unintentional discharges, thereby appeasing the agency legal team.

2.  We transitioned from revolvers, and the DAO made this simpler.

Bottom line, if you aren't comfortable carrying a DAO auto, carry something else, or if you do choose a DAO,  practice until you are confident with it (this is why I like the nice, inexpensive 9mm).

Regards,

Mike

[Sir Knight]

Now see, the Beretta 96D has a nice long trigger pull AND a repeat striker capability making it worthy of consideration -- although a bit large for concealed carry except during solder weather when it can be concealed under more layers of clothing.

[S.S.]

The Glock is kind of a hybrid as far as action is concerned.
They used to refer to it as the Glock "Safe Action" at the plant were they are assembled in Smyrna, Ga. The striker is actually not fully in the rearward position when a round is chambered. A pull on the trigger also
pulls the firing pin (striker) fully rearward before releasing it. This action was loosly based on the action of the Roth-Steyr model 1907 of Austria.
I have one of these also, and the trigger pull has to be somewhere in the area of 15 to 20 pounds! Gaston did quite well in his improvements.
I have had 2 jams with my Glocks, Both of which I attribute more to some
crappy factory ammo having a reduced powder charge than I do to the pistol. These are excellent weapons!