North American mini revolvers for backup ?

[GeorgiaDave]

Hello from Georgia,
   I was wondering if any of you guys have any expreience with the 22 mag mini revolvers. These little pistols are very concealable and being all stainless seem to be very durable as well. I realize that any 22 caliber is lacking the power of a traditional self defense weapon but the 22 mag is a potent rimfire round. I am considering getting one for a primary back up since it will easily fit in a shirt pocket or ride effortlessly in a boot clip holster. Any info will be appreciated. Thanks.

Dave

[Old Griz]

:cb2: I only know one person who has one, and in order to hit anything with it you've gotta be close enough that you can place it on the intended target's belly, head, chest, etc., and squeeze the trigger. Small, yes. Easy to conceal, yes. Even half-way to being accurate, no. I'd go with any of the Kel-Tek pistols, or even a Beretta Bobcat instead. At least with those you can shoot at something . . . say . . . three feet away!

[257 roberts]

I have a Beretta 950 25acp so what do I know?
I had a Freedom Arms 5-shot 22mag it was hard to hit anything and the recoil was nasty. :eek:

[muzzleblast525]

I had thought about getting one of those years ago, but have to agree with the other posts, cause you can't hit anything unless you got it stuck in their belly.  Bad thing for me is where I work, can't carry anything smaller than a .380....Had a Baretta .25ACP back in the late 80's to early 90's when working Narcotics, and it was a shooter.  Could you shoot your eye at about 7 yards.  Carried it as a back-up for years after that until they changed the policy.

[Savage]

Kel Tec P-3AT! Lighter than the NAA minis, just as easy to conceal, a lot more firepower.
Savage

[Redhawk1]

I have a NAA 22 mag I carry as back up to my Colt defender. Sure the accuracy at 7 yards is not that great, but I can place all five shots in the heart lung area every time from 7 yards. You don't need to be 3 feet from your target, I think that is a bit exaggerated. It is a point and shoot handgun not an aiming handgun.

[camsdaddy]

I recently purchase P32 Keltec and I must say its going to be alot easier to carry when the heat rises this summer also in GA

[jeager106]

Well I'd rather carry a good fighting knife than the mini .22.
And that wasn't a joke!
The little gun is very, very, hard to control much less actaully hit anything with and if you do manage to get the thing into action you probably orta shove it up someones nose hole to be effective.
You mention you wanted to carry a 'back up' piece.
Back up to what?
Are you a cop that might need a second gun?
If not I'm having a hard time understanding why a civy would consider carrying two guns?
There are a host of more effective weapons to choose from including a good knife.

[Redhawk1]

jeager106, that is good that you think that way. It is your opinion and personally I disagree.  But that is just my opinion. I don't have to be a cop to carry a back up, do you think cops are the only people that encounter bad guys, if you think that you must live in a small world or on your own planet.

In all seriousness, have you ever shot a NAA 22 Mag? I do all the time. If the 22 Mag is not accurate or even a real threat, would you stand 7 yards from someone and let them shoot you with it. I guess in your opinion, they would probably not even hit you. Now I heard it all, bring a knife to a gun fight. Now that was not a joke.  :roll:

[stuffit]

I've had both the FA model and the North American, both in .22 Magnum. I did some cursery ballistic experiments on phone books and found the CCI, (perhaps a faster powder) did more damage than the Winchester ammo out of these little revolvers.  They definitely are not in the K model S&W category for accuracy or with the .380 for power, but you'd be surprised how well you can shoot them at 10 yards or so once you get familiar with them.  They are very easy to conceal/pack.  I used to put the little FA model in a ziplock and tuck it in the "watch pocket" of a bathing suit, just to "have a gun along" on a river tube float.  I'm with Redhawk on this one.  They do have a useful niche.
 :wink:
stuffit

[predator_huntin]

i've got a NAA mini .22mag riding in my front pocket all the time.  i absolutely love it.  mine has the larger boot grip on it (not the big rubber grip, its a new wood grip they just came out with thats shaped like a SAA grip), so recoil isnt that bad.  i can easily hit a coke can out to about 15-18 yards with it when taking careful aim.  in fast, instictive defensive shooting a man size COM target can easily be hit out to 10 yards.  i wouldnt take nothing for mine...

the Kel-Tec .380s are also nice guns to carry.  they are small and light and have great capacity for there size and have awesome power.  which is better, the KT or the NAA?  well that is a personal decision.  honestly there are lots of times i carry both at the same time, and there are other times i'll only carry one or the other by themselves.  there are other times that one will be a backup to my G26 or S&W snub .38.  alot of it depends on the weather, my dress for the day, and where i'll be heading for the day.

[RollTide]

I own and shoot a NAA mini in both 22MAG and 22LR.  A man size target will be hit EVERYTIME at 20 yards and a coke can would be in serious danger at that range.  One of the things that really surprised me was the accuracy for their size.  You must know what you are doing and adjust your technique a little when shooting these little guns, and bigger grips are better for accuracy.  These little guns are much easier to carry and conceal that anything Keltec makes and they are absolutely safe and reliable.  In by opinion they make an excellent backup and I have carried one as my primary when I could carry nothing else.  I would take a 22MAG over a 25ACP any day, although I own and have carried a 25 at times.  Although the mini's are small enough to be carried when nothing else can, the P3AT is a better defense piece if you have room to carry it. Personally, I carry a NAA 32ACP for backup.   For a kit gun or deep concealment though, the little NAA mini's are top shelf in my book.  

Roll Tide

[jeager106]

jeager106, that is good that you think that way. It is your opinion and personally I disagree.  But that is just my opinion. I don't have to be a cop to carry a back up, do you think cops are the only people that encounter bad guys, if you think that you must live in a small world or on your own planet.

In all seriousness, have you ever shot a NAA 22 Mag? I do all the time. If the 22 Mag is not accurate or even a real threat, would you stand 7 yards from someone and let them shoot you with it. I guess in your opinion, they would probably not even hit you. Now I heard it all, bring a knife to a gun fight. Now that was not a joke.  :roll:

Redhawk:
Ya know for a moderator your pretty rude, mouthy and arrogant.
I'm surprised at your unprofessional demeanor, from a man that is supposed to represent GB no less.
GB has ALWAYS been a gentleman and I expected the same from his support staff.
The original question was a back up weapon to whatever the fellow carried as a primary weapon.
The poster mentioned carrying the thing in a shirt pocket.
I see bad breath distances when a person carrying concealed for defensive tactics is asking the question.
Why in gawds name anyone would engage another in armed controntation with a N.A.A. .22 mini gun is beyound me and defies common sense.
If the primary weapons fails it's extremely likely the pucker factor just went off the scale and the secondary weapon had better work, work desicively and quickly, and up very close and personal too boot.
Ergo my comment about being better served with a bonifide fighting knife over the diminutive mini revolver. Not at 21 feet, but at arms reach distances. Or don't you understand how close things can be in a defensive situation, especially after the primary weapon fails. The last irresponsible thing I would do is advise some poor chap to get an itty bitty gun that is difficult enough to operate under normal conditions let alone life or death situations.
I envisioned ultra close distance under extremely do or die circumstances.
Then you come along with you slures and negativity.
Sir that was rude, crude and beneath the conduct of this site.
The conduct that YOU are supposed to uphold and be an example of.
Now knock it off with the personal attacks or step down as moderator and become as we 'common' folk.


[/u][/b][/i]

[ButlerFord45]

If you have one, and nothing else to use as a backup, pop'er in your pocket and be one step ahead of where  you were.  If it is a PLAN to make a purchase of one for the purpose of using it as a backup, there are far too many better choices for equal money to even give the 22 a second thought.

[Redhawk1]

jeager106, that is good that you think that way. It is your opinion and personally I disagree.  But that is just my opinion. I don't have to be a cop to carry a back up, do you think cops are the only people that encounter bad guys, if you think that you must live in a small world or on your own planet.

In all seriousness, have you ever shot a NAA 22 Mag? I do all the time. If the 22 Mag is not accurate or even a real threat, would you stand 7 yards from someone and let them shoot you with it. I guess in your opinion, they would probably not even hit you. Now I heard it all, bring a knife to a gun fight. Now that was not a joke.  :roll:

Redhawk:
Ya know for a moderator your pretty rude, mouthy and arrogant.
I'm surprised at your unprofessional demeanor, from a man that is supposed to represent GB no less.
GB has ALWAYS been a gentleman and I expected the same from his support staff.
The original question was a back up weapon to whatever the fellow carried as a primary weapon.
The poster mentioned carrying the thing in a shirt pocket.
I see bad breath distances when a person carrying concealed for defensive tactics is asking the question.
Why in gawds name anyone would engage another in armed controntation with a N.A.A. .22 mini gun is beyound me and defies common sense.
If the primary weapons fails it's extremely likely the pucker factor just went off the scale and the secondary weapon had better work, work desicively and quickly, and up very close and personal too boot.
Ergo my comment about being better served with a bonifide fighting knife over the diminutive mini revolver. Not at 21 feet, but at arms reach distances. Or don't you understand how close things can be in a defensive situation, especially after the primary weapon fails. The last irresponsible thing I would do is advise some poor chap to get an itty bitty gun that is difficult enough to operate under normal conditions let alone life or death situations.
I envisioned ultra close distance under extremely do or die circumstances.
Then you come along with you slures and negativity.
Sir that was rude, crude and beneath the conduct of this site.
The conduct that YOU are supposed to uphold and be an example of.
Now knock it off with the personal attacks or step down as moderator and become as we 'common' folk.


[/u][/b][/i]

Surly you jest, there was no personal attack. You tell me I am giving bad advice when you post you rather have a knife over a tiny little mini handgun. Now who's advice was bad?  If I was out of line the Moderator here would of let me know.

Being a Moderator makes me no different than you, I am here to post as you do and I have opinions as you do. We may not see things the same but should be able to discuss them without one getting upset and asking someone to step down as a Moderator, because you did not like what I said.

The reason for a back up is if your primary weapon fails, which can happen even with the best of guns. You primary weapon may not be the right choice for the clothing you are wearing. I could give you a bunch of reasons why to carry a back. You just have to be open minded and accept the fact not everyone thinks like you. Also I carry a CCW for defense not to have armed confrontation for the fun of it. Carrying a handgun is a serious  responsibility and should not be taken lightly. If you don't agree with me that is fine, but if I don't agree with you, don't assume I am going to step down as a Moderator just because you think I made a personal attack on you. It is a open discussion and I still think I am allowed to respond to you or anyone else.

[jeager106]

O.K. Redhawk we have a difference of opinion.
You can be as nasty as you want to.
Now hear me out.
The little N.A.A. is very difficult to control under normal situations let alone when the pucker factor went off the scale.
Yes I have shot one and they make a very good watch fob.
I've also swatted one out of the hand of my would be killer.
Now in a s.h.t.f. situation when your primary weapon has failed for what ever reason I can't imagine anyone trying to fumble with the tiny, clumsy, underpowered .22 r.f. N.A.A. mini revolver.
I would MUCH rather have a good fighting knife.
If my primary weapon failed the knife at arms distance would be far superior to a stinking, little, hard to control p.o.s. mini toy.
I did cary two guns for 22 years in the streets.
When I carried a Smith 19 on duty I carried the Smith Ch. Spl. as back up and off duty weapon.
The controls are identical.
When I became a detective, I went to the 9mm in a Jackass rig I did not carry a back up.
When I made Lt. and developed the SWAT team I carried a 4506 Smith on duty and a 3913 as back up and off duty.
The controls were the same.
Duh!
I trained with, was not trained by, but trained with Mass Ayoob,
We were equals sonny and put on some nice dog and pony shows together.
No one knows everything, but I know enough to tell a person to NEVER rely on such a miserable excuse for a defensive gun as the N.A.A, mini.
I would never advise anyone to depend on a Raven .25 auto either and a host of other weapons that are a poor choice for any defensive situation.
You see Red, some people may see moderator by your name and actually think you know what you are talking about and lend credibility to your comments and thus be led astray.
Anyone that has seen more than a few autopsies knows what damage can be done with a knife.
If I had a choice between a N.A.A. mini and a good fighting knife for bad breath distance defense I'd opt for the knife.
Or a sharp sitck for that matter.

[Redhawk1]

jeager106, I guess we will agree to disagree and leave it at that.

As for me being a Moderator and thinking that title means anything is wrong. I really could care less about a title. I was never impressed about titles myself. You don't know how much grief that title has cost me. I do it to help Graybeard, not to try to make others think it means I know it all or what I say is more important than others here. I give my opinions and experiences, some times they are good and sometimes they are bad. We all come here for different reasons, I like to try to learn and hopefully help others. Sometimes we all just get caught up in the moment. I am more than sure that if we sat in a room and had this discussion it would of turned out a hole lot different.  

[rockbilly]

:roll: It is beyond me why anyone would purchase any .22 caliber gun for a back up.  If that is all you have, then go for it, but if you are looking to purchase a back up there are far too many better choices on the market.

There are many professionals that carry a knife over some of the smaller guns, they are convinced that at arms length a knife is more effective than the small caliber handguns.  If the bad guy is at arms length and moving towards you, likely you could only get off one shot before they are on top of you.  Up close and personal I know I can put a lot of hurt on a bad guy with a good knife, perhaps more hurt that I could with the little pop gun.  JMHO :roll:

[jeager106]

rockbilly:
Indeed you can do a HUGE amount of damage with a knife.
Certainly more damage then a .22 mini watch fob.
No mind you I would rather have a good .357 revolver as a personal defense weapon and forget the silliness of a back up weapon.
I'm only speaking in the context of a civilian defensive situation, not military or police circumstances where you go in harms way as a course of business.
If I absolutely had to have a wapon close at hand for up close and personal defense I would absolutely choose a knife over any .25 or .22 cailber weapon.
Notice I said up close, as in arms reach.
I've seen (and perfromed) a number of autopsies and a knife causes much, much, greater tissue damage than even a .500 S&W magnum.
In fact only a contact wound from a 12 bore causes devestation on such a scale.
I won't go into details but using a knife can be as effective as any handgun to stop agressive behavior in very close encounters.
But you have to understand what to do and how, then be willing to do it.
I'd go for any knife for personal defense over the .22 mini or .25 autos.

[jimmyp50]

I wonder what would produce more immeadiate results a knife wound from a 3.5 inch pocket knife or a 22 magnum discharged with surface contact into the thorasic cavity? I cannot help but think that the exploding gas escaping from the barrel has to go somewhere with the 22 magnum contact weapon?

[Skeeterbaymac]

I tend not to post much in this forum as I find I get upset to easy with some theories:  But Georgia Dave is asking a honest question So here is my two cents worth:  I am retired federal LE and military, (Not that it matters or counts for anything as I have seen/known cops that knew nothing of good defensive concepts and every fight situation is different. That being said I have been to the mountain (so to speak) more than once.  I have a NAA 22 mag (it's been about five years since I handled it.) and I never carried it for back up on duty:

   If I were looking to purchase a back up gun as, Mr Butler Ford said, "there are far to many better choices"  Now there are times when due to clothing and where you will be going, that a NAA mini would be handy.  I would rather have a mini than nothing!  I CAN understand why some would carry a mini in certain situations. They are very easy to hide. I will also add that when the fight gets down and dirty hand to hand/in close, a man with a good knife thats in good shape can hold his own and should not be discounted.    

  It's my opinion that  Both Redhawk and Jeager106 have brought up good points. The mini may in situations, route a suspect before he gets to close (no one likes a big bang.  They (the mini) may also stop an attack.  But if I had to use my mini in a fight, I would be wishing I had somthing else in my hands (just about anything else! (38, 357, 45 ect).  I don't think Mr redhawk was trying to tell anyone the mini is a good fight stopper.  

Georgia Dave  My advise to you (which is probably no better than anyone elses here), is if you are buying only one back up gun, make it somthing other than a mini.  If you have the $ and wanted a small easy to hide LAST DITCH weapon to add to your collection, then get the mini.  

[Redhawk1]

Skeeterbaymac, you are correct. I myself would and do carry a better weapon for CCW. I carry a Colt Defender in 45 ACP. But no matter where I go or how I dress my 22 Mag is there also. Like you said, the 22 mini makes a loud bang when it goes off and will get your attention.

Yes, a knife can do a lot of damage and cause extensive wounds. But when jeager106 said " a knife causes much, much, greater tissue damage than even a .500 S&W magnum. " I have to disagree. For one, I don't think he or anyone else has seen the damage a 500 Mag has done to human tissue, seeing's how no one has been killed with a 500 Mag. But I can tell you from hunting experience with my 500 Mag on a black bear that the damage from one shot of the 500 Mag was extensive.

The last point I want to make is, I shoot my 22 Mag mini a lot and I can hit my intended target consistently at 10 yards, with a point and shoot exercise. So it is not just a nose to nose gun. I 22 mag will cause a lot of damage internally. I stand behind my decision to carry a mini 22 Mag. Again it is just as a back up not a primary defense weapon.

[S.S.]

I had one for a while that had been modified at the factory.
It was stamped "Casull's improved" or something like that.
I don't know really what was improved! The front sight was removed
(ground off) but that is about all. I could not hit anything with it much past a couple of feet. It would also burn the crap out of my knuckles with the Cylinder gap flash. It was also kinda' hard to hold onto when you touched it off. Better than a rock, But I would wager I could send the rock more accurately.

[jeager106]

Redhawk:
you haven't seen many sliced and diced people have ya?
I knife can indeed do a lot more damage than any handgun round.
Now you can carry the watch fob gun all you want but you should add to your posts that there are many other calibers and weapons to choose from that are far better to the assigned task.
Your statement the .22 mag you claim to carry was "just a back up" speaks volumes about your mind set. :roll:  :roll:
When you dressed and butchered your .500 mag. killed bear you used a freakin' knife didn't 'cha?
Duh!

[FireMaker]

Remember that it is only a backup.  I shoot around 80% on the state qual every year with mine.  Need to give it the full front sight and use one of those folding grips to help you hold on.  For deep carry its great.  A lot cheaper than my seecamp for shooting and purchase

[jeager106]

Remember that it is only a backup.  I shoot around 80% on the state qual every year with mine.  Need to give it the full front sight and use one of those folding grips to help you hold on.  For deep carry its great.  A lot cheaper than my seecamp for shooting and purchase

Now wait a minute.
What is this 'only a backup' mind set?
Refering to your back up; life or death situation firearm as "only a backup" is like saying your seat belt is 'only a seat belt" and not important.
If you think it's 'only' a back up therefore not as important as your primary weapon then why carry a back up weapon at all?
With that mind set you might as well duct tape yourself into your car seat saying the seat belt is "only a safety restraint".

Does anyone get it? If your situation is precarious enough for a 2nd gun then why is it not every bit as important as your primary weapon?

A few somebodies here need some serious tactical enlightenment.

[Skeeterbaymac]

Mr.  Redhawk and Mr. Firemaker:  I hope you don't get the opinion that I was being critical of your choice to carry the mini, I was not.  I did not wish to offend anyone.  As you said in your posts you do carry other weapons.  In my opinion there ain't a thing wrong with throwing a mini in your pocket  while carrying something bigger. I am positive I would not like to be down range of either of you with one in your hand! :-)  I was just trying to give Georgia Dave my honest opinion and the best advise I could on his question.  

[Redhawk1]

Mr.  Redhawk and Mr. Firemaker:  I hope you don't get the opinion that I was being critical of your choice to carry the mini, I was not.  I did not wish to offend anyone.  As you said in your posts you do carry other weapons.  In my opinion there ain't a thing wrong with throwing a mini in your pocket  while carrying something bigger. I am positive I would not like to be down range of either of you with one in your hand! :-)  I was just trying to give Georgia Dave my honest opinion and the best advise I could on his question.  

Never entered my mind of you being critical of my choice.  

As for  jeager106, I don't think there is anything more to discuss, because it is apparent you can't have an intelligent conversation without trying to make everyone see it your way. Sorry if we cannot agree and that I just can't see it your way. But I think for the better of the thread, I will back out of this discussion and let the expert here handle it.  :wink:

[S.S.]

As an answer to one of the earlier posts, I have seen people
injured terribly from knives, and I do indeed agree with you that
a Nice Ka-Bar can and will create a much more severe wound than
a handgun. (No Kinetic energy transfer though and that is a major drawback) But to use that blade you must make contact with your antagonist and that is the whole Idea of a handgun, KEEP THE PERP. AWAY FROM YOU... Also, It takes a certain kind of person to use a knife on another human being, You WILL hesitate before doing it..
Hand to hand combat is a most savage undertaking and most men are really not capable of that kind of brutality. There is a big difference in pulling a trigger and pushing a knife through a ribcage or cutting a throat.
A gun is not personal, an edged weapon is!

[Dee]

When I ran a tactical unit back in the 80s I carried a North American Arms 22mag revolver in a Schrade lock-blade knife case on my gun belt. With the flap snapped down it looked like a knife unless you looked REALLY close. As for accuracy? No its not good at 100 yards but, within 10 or 12 feet with a little practice it works as good as a 22mag can. It was a good little backup if life suddenly got less complicated.  Wish I hadn't sold mine to a detective. :wink: