Author Topic: Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a primer? heh....)  (Read 878 times)

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Offline Plinkomatic

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a primer? heh....)
« on: March 27, 2006, 06:07:30 PM »
In a rare stroke of luck (for me), I won a TC .50 Black Powder Rifle.
I have no idea if it is an Encore, Omega or other, all I know is that it is a TC .50 Black Powder Rifle, but I'll know more once it gets here in a few days.
I shoot alot, but only, so far from cartridges (from .22 to .308 and beyond).
After scouring the Black Powder section here at Graybeard and looking through the links at the sticky, I still have yet to find an article or webpage that goes over the basics.
I've avoided reloading as the time to money factor has yet to be sensible as I mostly shoot common sizes (.22, .40, .45, .223, .308, etc.) where good ammo is cheap, but I get a sense that black powder is going to be an expensive and time consuming gateway to reloading.  The thought of affordably shooting my 45/70 is certainly appealling....
Thanks in advance for any links, info, etc.
My wife snarls at you in advance...

Offline ButlerFord45

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2006, 12:10:56 AM »
There's a spot that's entertaining as well as informative.  Scroll half way down the page to "A little Math" to start.

http://members.aye.net/~bspen/
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline horseman308

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2006, 05:45:26 AM »
Is it a traditional side-lock gun (percussion or flintlock) or is it a modern in-line? There are operated largely the same, but there are some substantial differences between the ways they perform.
You only take one shot at a time, so don't waste it :cb2:

Offline Swamp Yankee

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2006, 01:40:22 PM »
There are a number of good how-to books out there like Lyman's black powder handbook and ones written by Sam Fadala and Tobby Bridges.
I enjoy muzzleloading and find it very rewarding.
I don't find muzzleloading to be expensive other that getting set up to shoot. I shoot patched round balls at eight dollars a box and buy Goex at twelve and change a pound.  It roughly boils down to [with patches ] around $25/ 100 shots or so....[maybe a bit more]  Unlike reloading  you can adjust your load right there on the next shot rather that going back and forth to the range a couple times to dial in your loads. Don't get me wrong I reload too. but with muzzleloading it is instantanious. The best thing to do is find a mentor to show you the ropes.
Good luck with that new rifle....Jim

Offline Plinkomatic

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2006, 03:26:39 PM »
Great leads so far, thanks!
Read lots so far, looking forward to building up loads on that TC .50.
Once I know if it is inline or flintlock, I'll post.
One question (so far)- is it a bad idea to keep Pyrodex pellets in a fridge?
I'm planning on keeping all Black Powder, primers, etc. in the back house where I live.  Guns and ammo ok up front, but not for the powder; might as well go for maximum safety since I have the space.
It gets mighty hot in the summers in back and the fridge seems sensible and static/shock free.

Offline lostid

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nun
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2006, 03:35:26 PM »
Quote from: Plinkomatic
Once I know if it is inline or flintlock, I'll post.


 Heritic! Hubress!! Hubress,!
i'm a realist. i've not seen it all, but man ,,I've Been Around the block once or twice

Offline lostid

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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2006, 03:43:18 PM »
Quote from: Plinkomatic
One question (so far)- is it a bad idea to keep Pyrodex pellets in a fridge?.

Yes. They are better kept in the freezer! That way they crush better and spread easier on the lawn in the spring tyme!
i'm a realist. i've not seen it all, but man ,,I've Been Around the block once or twice

Offline flintlock

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2006, 03:47:34 PM »
When you get it, there will probably be a video (or CD) with instructions and also a book (operators manuel)...Once you read/look at them, let us know and we'll help with any other questions...Many also come with a sample pack of bullets.

PS...I live in NC, and keep my Goex in a cabinet in my garage...Have some thats been there 2-3 years, hasn't hurt it yet.

Offline Swamp Yankee

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2006, 05:50:20 AM »
Friends don't let friends use pyrodex!
Go "GOEX" the good stuff!.....Jim

Offline Plinkomatic

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2006, 08:54:29 AM »
Ah... So avoid being lazy with the Pyrodex pellets and make the Goex move?
Would it be fair to say that Pyrodex is the Wolf (ammo) of Black Powder?

Offline Winter Hawk

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2006, 01:09:25 PM »
Pyrodex pellets are going to cost you  a whole bunch more than real black powder.  And if it isn't an in-line with shotgun primer ignition, you will play havoc trying to get it to go off with the pellets.  The P-powder works okay in  percussion rifles but if you get a flintlock you will need black powder to get the Pyrodex to go off.

Say, is this for real?  It is hard to believe that you won a rifle and have no idea what it is!    :)

Let us know what she be and how you make out!

-Winter Hawk-
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone

Offline Plinkomatic

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2006, 01:35:39 PM »
Yeah... I won it in a 'karma' on a different board.  I wrote a song and remarkably the guy's wife liked mine best so I won.  
Kinda ambigious, all I know is that it is a TC .50 black powder.
Waiting for the guy to contact me to ship it out, etc.
Getting antsy, looking forward to it something terrible.
I'm documenting my black power education and development of the rifle (once it gets here!....) and will share info once it is in shape to do so.
It will likely be interesting to see the experienced (you) watch a 'new-guy' (me) make the requisite beginner mistakes.  I've found that watching others' progression through the introductory phases of things I'm familiar with to be an effective way to reinforce basics.

Offline horseman308

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2006, 04:10:29 AM »
Howdy. I tried to post this last night, but it didn't take. In regards to your question about Pyrodex being the Wolf ammo of blackpowder, I was going to say this:

Pyrodex burns at a higher temperature than real BP. This is important b/c a sidelock (flint or percussion) doesn't generally put out enough heat at the primer to ignite Pyrodex reliably. It works well in in-lines because they tend to use shotgun primers, and they are much hotter burning than regular caps and flint/BP priming. The other reason is that with an in-line having the primer directly in line (hence the name) with the main charge, you get almost instant lock time. But Pyrodex just doesn't work reliably for most people in a flintlock or caplock gun.

Having said that, most folks who haven't shot sidelocks much often think they are really slow and unreliable. Side locks can be slow, but that's almost always because they are either poorly design or more often, not cleaned properly. If you get a properly built side-lock and keep it properly cleaned, they are quite fast. If some one really wants instantaneous lock time, get a cartridge gun. Yes, side-locks are marginally slower than cartridges due to their design, but because they are, learning to shoot one well will make you a better marksmen all around. They make you slow down, think more, squeeze the trigger more slowly, follow-through longer; basically they require a higher degree of all the basic skills, and will make you better as a result.

The main reason Pyrodex is popular is because it's cleaner burning than BP. This is somewhat annoying, because it does take longer to clean, but I believe that the benefits far outweigh this. BP's other drawback is that the BATFE has it listed as a class A explosive. Private dealers usually can't sell enough to make it worth the effort to navigate the red tape. But even with that being the case, BP still doesn't usually cost any more than Pyrodex, especially if you get BP in bulk. But even with it being listed as an explosive, that doesn't make it more dangerous. Gasoline is very explosive, but we don't often worry too much about it. Just keep it stored in a cool, dry place. I don't know about the fridge, b/c it will absorb moisture, but it should be fine if kept sealed in its container.

Bottom line, real BP is more reliable (to me), especially in a sidelock. It's cheaper over time. Side locks with real BP make you a better shooter. But whatever you choose to do, have fun with it and keep working at it 'til you find what works best for you.
You only take one shot at a time, so don't waste it :cb2:

Offline Plinkomatic

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2006, 05:35:44 PM »
IT ARRIVED!
It is a T/C Scout .50
Emailed TC and ordered the manual.
Looking forward to firing it this weekend.
Gonna figure out how to clean, load and fire it first tho...

Offline Rex B

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Pyrodex or BP
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2006, 07:11:47 AM »
My use is purely recreational and plinking.

I shot Pyrodex for years in my old CVA kit guns, never had a problem igniting it with standard #11 caps.

I preferred Pyrodex just for the ease of cleaning and the lack of fouling. I still  keep BP and use it some, but I can't tell much difference in use.   Sometimes I start out with BP, then switch to Pyrodex so I won't have to clean the barrel. Going back and forth every 3rd shot seems to keep the fouling down. I make sure I finish up with Pyrodex in case I don't have time to clean it properly as soon as I get home.

Offline Keith Lewis

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2006, 07:30:42 PM »
Quote from: Plinkomatic
IT ARRIVED!
It is a T/C Scout .50
Emailed TC and ordered the manual.
Looking forward to firing it this weekend.
Gonna figure out how to clean, load and fire it first tho...

I had a Scout and it was OK. Couple of things: the primer nipple is a strange one and does not interchange with any other nipple on the market. If you can find one as a spare buy it. I saw one at a dealer in Tucson Arizona a couple of months ago. I also saw someone that had the nipple machined to accept standard nipples which seems like a good thing to do. The Nipple and chamber between the nipple and the base of the rifle is a strange area that is difficult to clean and I would check it well to be sure there is no problem there. This rifle has become somewhat of a collectable and you might be better off selling it and getting a rifle of newer more up to date design. I traded my Scout for an Omega. I have since bought several other rifles including one flintlock so the bug has bit. If the rifle is the wood stocked one and the wood is not scratched up or dented the rifle is worth a bit more than the synthetic stock one.

Offline Slamfire

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2006, 09:15:31 PM »
Well it ain't a sidelock for sure, but it isn't quite an inline either as there is no way to convert it to modern primers and they are stuck out in the weather. Goex is more like Remington' Green Box ammo that Wolf. There are some imported (from China) powders that deserve the latter apellation.  :-D
I'd imagine you could get the substitute powders to ignite usin' the magnum caps, but why take the chance. By the way, I get my black powder from Graf & Son. They've a website, and their private brand powder is made in Germany by Wano. Not quite as hot or clean as Swiss, but better'n Goex.  :wink:
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline dodd3

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Looking for the ABC's of Black Powder (a pr
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2006, 02:29:47 AM »
slamfire i use wano fff premium its cheep here in west oz compaird to swiss,ive found it shoots a lot beter if you realy compress the load i get a lot less fowling and beter veloscity .
bernie :grin:
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