Author Topic: Supported vs Un-supported Barrels ???? (Read 445 times)

UtahMike · « **on:** April 04, 2006, 10:03:13 AM »

Is the barrel in my Springfield XD-40 sub-compact "supported" or not.

Quote---
Most handguns, such as STI and SVI, have supported chambers allowing the cartridge to make the 165 power factor. However, factory Glock barrels have a non-supported barrel causing the brass to bulge excessively when loaded to a top load. Therefore, care should be used when loading for the non-supported barrels.

I took this from my Sierra manual. I've seen the buldges on brass before, not mine.

I've reloaded for more than 40yrs. and just bought a new Dillon RL550B, I wanted make sure that the same loads I load for my Berreta 96 can be used in the Springfield.......

Thanks, Mike

corbanzo · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2006, 01:14:40 PM »

I read this, didn't know, and started to wonder myself, so I looked it up. I fould in another forum some guys argueing about the same thing.

http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=27416

From what they are talking about, seems to me its just the amount of metal around the chamber. There is a good image in the forum that shows the chambers in .40SW with 8 different firearms.

UtahMike · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2006, 01:24:55 PM »

corbanzo - Boy they really get into it don't they? It was just a question to me, not life and death...... at least I hope not. It appears and I use that term lightly "appears", that the XD-40 is "supported" as much as any of the cartridges in the pics.

Thanks, Mike

kyote · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2006, 02:15:53 PM »

From what I understand.glock made the unsupported chamber to enhance reliability(do not get me wrong,there are plenty supported chambers that are very reliable)this was done looking towards military use and the pistol being dirty.I have picked up mucho .40 S&W culls at the ranges when LE transitioned from revolvers to autos and from what ever autos to the .40s.I normally have always ran my cases through an RCBS carbide full legth sizing die before running them through the Dillion 550.the die seems to go down further on the case making it look better to me.where the dillion dies have a larger radius on the mouth of the die to accomidate getting the case in the die with little effort.and I don't like the way they look using the dillion sizing die.
when I was done with a bucket full of brass I noticed the "bulge" at the base.so I used a chamber gauge and found that they would not PLOP in the gauge.and most would not go into the gauge by pushing hard on the bottom of the case.I called lee presion and told them about this problem and ask if they had a remedy for it.Boy did they ever.they have a carbide seating die and a stem that goes into the shell holder.I had a friend cut the threads out of the top of the die that held the seater.sprayed lube on all the brass that would not go in to the gauge.and put them into the shell holder and set the brass on top of it and ran it through the die the next one pushes the other out.and the brass seemed to go right back to factory specs.
Now the offending brass would work in a glock pistol because of the sloppy chamber.but not in most other pistols.specially some of my race guns in .40 with Fully supported chambers(now we have three chambers.fully supported/supported/unsupported.).but I did not want to load ammo that was not looking right either.and defiently dislike failure to feed problems.So if you pick up culls at the range.you may want to invest in a chamber gauge to ensure you have ammo that will work in your pistol are you can just check them against the chamber in your pistol..gaads when I think I have it right some times I find i don't.but I love firearms and all that goes with it.and I learn from it everyday.

corbanzo · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2006, 03:57:47 PM »

kyote - have you ever cut into those to check for thinning? Especially with range shell you dont know... I had a friend who brought out some reloaded -06 shells, really streched. He tried to shove them in mine, got stuck, he was confused.... "the fit fine in mine, lets try it again!" After ripping the bolt clean out the back of the gun to get the shell out, I told him, look idiot, your chamber is shot out! Way bigger than spec! He never used a resizer....

kyote · « **Reply #5 on:** April 05, 2006, 03:17:33 AM »

yes,I sure did.there are other methods to check for streching / cracks.and tried em all.these were once fired cases.and I only need to run them fully through the carbide seating die just one time.(just the ones that will not fit the chamber gauge.)unless I shoot them in my Glock.then I will probaly run them through again if they don't plop into the gauge.

williamlayton · « **Reply #6 on:** April 06, 2006, 01:16:54 AM »

My understanding of the discussion between supported and unsupported barrels is based upon pressure.
No barrel is completely supprorted or unsupported, the unsupported are more unsupported than the supported. [a disclaimer]
An unsupporeted barrel will:
Be more feed reliable in semi-autos out of the box.
Is not designed for a number of high pressure calibers or not reccommended for round that are loaded hot rod. My understanding is that even traditional, lets use the .45 as an example [a very low pressure round], can have case failure if loaded too hot in an unsupported barrel.
Not all brass is equal.
Supported barrels:
Will need some care and attention to insure proper feeding.
Some would even say that supported barrels should not be used in weapons which require reliable feed for self protection [Dane Burns] and others disagree. Certainly supported barrels have been proven to be reliable. The question then falls on the degree of reliability some would have need of.
High pressure rounds such as the 9x23 are best suited for supported barrels IF the proper brass is not used.
Using the 9X23, again, Winchester produces a brass that is designed for this high pressure round. It is a brass that can be used with unsupported barrels.
Even though this is true, I would think that the boys that hot rod this small rifle round should use a supported barrel for their purpose.
This conversation is carried over too the likes of the .38 super, 10MM, Super .45 and any round that will be hot rodded to the max or near max.
My 9X23 is not in a supported barrel from STI but then again my needs are not for hot rodding and IS for reliablility. Some of my loads are even softer than factory.
This same thought process is/will be for the .38 super I expect to purchase.
Blessings