I'm getting older ....wiser ??? A taser ???

[Mike in Ct]

I'm fifty, I have a steel plate in my neck & 2 fused discs..I lost 35 lbs in the last ten years..I have an intestonal disese..Crohn's..So I aint as good as as once was...All That has not really slowed me down much & my pride keeps telling me "oh yes I can" Well sunday I saw myself wrestling with a 200 lb shoplifter...He was helping himself to about a hundred bucks worth of my jar candles..neatly stuffed into a knapsack...I approach him with a portable phone in my hand [I had dialed 911,Informed them I needed an officer} nothing else mind u...I told him to sit down The Police were on the way..I told him If he got up there would be a fight for sure...SIT DOWN ...NOPE we had a brief altercation I ducked & spun him once sticking the phone anttena into his neck.. when he breaks loose & makes for the door..knocking stuff over all the way..I chase him down about a quarter mile up & around the back of the shopping center..& the cops find me about a min after I catch him...This was not how I wanted this to go..I asked if these electronic guns are legal & it seems so in my state..The dectective said just let him go..we will catch him...The street cops were all go going, GO mikey, old dude!! Well old dude wants a taser ...U guys think that is a good plan inside the my store?? I'D  like not to have to fight these guys anymore cause I looked pretty skinny/scrawny next to that guy on the video tape... other than a crook sueing me I cant see a downside to this course of action....Feel free to unleash all opinions...mike in ct

[Daveinthebush]

Would not a heavy coat in the fall and winter be enough to stop a taser?  Could they penetrate heavy clothing?  You could aim for the legs I guess.

Just a thought.

[victorcharlie]

No possession is worth loosing your life.  Yea, you might catch the guy, but you risk more than any amount of candles are worth.  What if he had busted your teeth out, how much would that cost?  Or pulled a knife and then sent you to the hospital, what would that cost?   What if you hurt the guy and then he sues you?  Do you know what it cost to defend a lawsuit win or loose?  In your condition, you risked serious injury for what?  $100 dollars?  I'd much rather loose $100 than be in traction and go through rehabilitation to learn how to walk again.....What could possibly be worth the pain?  Your Pride?  I think you should think about what's really important in life before you try that again as next time you might not be so lucky.  

Fight only when you have to.  To me, if it's worth fighting for it's worth dieing for, and ain't many material things worth dieing for.   Put up a camera, take pictures and let the cops catch them.  It'll be a lot cheaper in the long run.

[Daks]

Ditto. Well said.

[NYH1]

I agree with vic!

[countryrebel8174]

question... are you talking about getting an actual taser or a stun gun...there is a difference.
when i was going to college for criminal justice we had an officer come into our patrol procedures class, the officer was doing a taser demonstration. after he told us about the taser for an hour he half jokingly asked if anyone would volunteer to get tased...nobody wanted to do it until our teacher said we could get extra credit for it. anyway after a whole group of the baseball players had about jumped out of there skin he asked me if i would would be interested...his actual words were "you look like a pretty big boy i bet you could take me, think you can handle a taser" well he had just tased a girl right before that so i was like ok why not. i was wearing a hooded sweat shirt and he started tasing me in my left arm...to everyones amazement i sat through it....i sat there for 10 seconds(which when your being tased is a LONG time). everybody wanted to know why it didnt hurt me. i told them it hurt but not to bad( i did grow up on a farm peeing on electric fences :wink: ). he said that some people have a high pain tolerance or will be on drugs and the taser doesnt really effect them. after that i havent been very impressed with the taser. granted if he would have deployed it on me and it hit me in my chest it may have been a different story but im gonna have to go with victor on this one, however if you do decide to get one make sure you get trained to use it...


country rebel

[Savage .250]

You with a TASER (need to get close to work) and the perp with a gun ........works at most any distance certainly within the confinds of a store.
   He`s high on crack and needs money for a fix he will kill you......no doubt about it.  Not sure the Taser works on people that are High or at least not 100%.  
   Tough call but if you confront him all bets are off.  If you get in the game so to speak, you best be ready to play. Taser or other wise.
   I know your situation was about jar-candles but next time it could be
   more life threatening.

[Questor]

Personally I don't carry a gun and am not inclined to, but if I were in a position where I needed to show force to detain a criminal, I would choose a firearm. The reason is that a firearm displayed to a criminal can often does stop the escalation of the fight. If the fight does escalate anyway, then my weapon would be a good choice to have.  It also sends the message that you are dangerous to criminals.

This is a difficult decision for anyone to make and I hope yours is made wisely and with consideration of your own protection and the protection of your customers.

If non-lethal force were preferred or required because of a crowded store where a projectile would be dangerous to bystanders, then my choice would be the large heavy duty pepper spray container.  It's proven as a stopper.

I really don't believe a taser is a good choice because of its limited applications. It seems to be at its best when used by police who use it as a first choice, but have a firearm as a second choice.

As a relatively recent subscriber to a handgun magazine that contains much editorial material on the topic of defense, I wonder what the authors' life styles must be like. Some pack two firearms and a knife and body armor as routine daily wear, and these people are not necessarily in law enforcement. If a fight were so much anticipated, then it would make much more sense to move to a safer place.

Hopefully this the type of altercation you experienced is unique to your experience, and I hope it does not happen again. Best wishes.

[Mike in Ct]

No, half of them [shoplifters] want to run over u ...push & scoot when u catch them stuffing things into a bag ...Others seem pretty peaceful they fuss & moan & try to just slip away...One cop here in town caught a young woman years ago, he made the mistake of looking away just briefly after apprehending her..Not cuffed, she spun around & pulled a small knife & stuck him an inch deep in his shoulder...That dropped him pretty quickly..& he was one big boy...I have & I carry a concealed weapon..but these kind of confrontations should not be approached with a loaded gun in hand..The taser seems like a good choice inside the store...I'm always a little concerned when aproaching a suspected shoplifter...That little girl stabbing a big cop keeps me pretty focused...I have a decent camera system but these thiefs just dont care...Some kind of intervention seems to deter most thiefs but when u step up ..it can get out of control quickly...Yes, I got lucky with that big one..thats why I thought a taser gun or the stun prod might be prudent..now I'm having second thoughts...It is completely different from being behind the counter & being robbed at gunpoint...If I use one of those things I have to know they are effective...I'm confident in my abilities with my hands ..I can get in a punch or two & duck most offensive blows..The trouble is I'm not weighing in more than some girls these days... my punch just aint what it used to be..The Xtra 50 thousand volts would add some snap to my hits..poking him with a stubby phone antenna in the neck was worthless...Just a couple of added thoughts...mike in ct

[Theshootist78]

while I do not agree with shoplifting and I do think that they are criminals, you have to be very carefull about the escalation of force. At the point in time that you called the police they were only "suspected" of commiting a crime. I realize that you may have seen and caught them red handed, but they are still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. You have the right to detain them until the police come, but you are than taking the responsibility and possible legal ramifications of your actions. If you physicaly restrain them, they will than instinctivily physicaly resist, this is their right. If you show a weapon, they must believe that you will use it, if they believe that you will do them harm, they will resist this weapon too. They will than either run, or choose their own weapon. if you use a weapon on them, they will than be forced to use a weapon on you. Its simply a tit for tat ratcheting up of violence. I am not sure what your states rules are, but i am not really sure if you are allowed to tazer someome because you "suspect" that they "may" have "possibly" stolen from a store. I am also not sure if you are legaly entitled to tazer someone because they did follow your instructions to sit and wait. I guess if the police decide to deputize you, you would than be granted this authority, but untill you are explicitly invested with this power by the state or society you are not really allowed to engage in physical intercourse with any other person, criminal or not.        I do not like shoplifters, and Iwould personaly forget about legality, right, wrong  or otherwise if I cought a shoplifter in my store.....

[Questor]

Mike_in_Ct:

You obviously have a better understanding of your needs and situation than anyone here, so my guess is that your gut feeling is correct. You probably will find a taser to be useful for the way you expect to apply it. My next step would be to talk to the cops to find out what works best.  Good luck.

[Mike in Ct]

The young cops with just enough experience under thier belts say go for it ...the older guys mostly recomend laying back, not all..some  They feel uncomfortable I think giving that kind of advice..With good reason..It is not an easy call...mike

[doncisler]

one thing a lot of you don't seem to realize is that the stolen merchandise is not the most important thing.
 when word gets out on the street that a merchant doesn't do anything when they see you shoplifting you will become an easy mark for anyone so inclined.
make it rough on them - not just a challenge with no teeth and they learn fast to go somewhere else.
worst is to make threats to them then not follow thru.  that will just make it a challenge to see how much they can get away with.

[countryrebel8174]

or you could buy the tazer and keep a 12 gauge under the counter

country rebel

[rockbilly]

If state law authorizes the use of deadly force you may want to scrap the idea of a tazer.  Today, you never know if the prep is armed or not.  So many wannabe crooks are armed, scard and will hurt you when attempting to detain them.  If deadly force is authorized in your state then get a .45 and load her to the max.  Just remember, if you have to shoot, never shoot to injury, do it with bad intentions.  Here in Texas you can use deadly force to protect personal property, so if I ever have to shoot it will be to take the bad guy out.  A dead man can't testify against you in a court of law..........

[dave375hh]

Mike,
Lets see if I've got this right, You want to risk your life for a bag of candles? Let the cops and your insurance take care of this one. If you believe in self defense carry a gun, but not for a bag of candles. Very lliklely you were dealing with a nut job not just a criminal. You could be telling this story to St Pete. Forget the taser.

[rockbilly]

dave357hh.  I agree somewhat, but normally, once someone takes advantage of you, they return time and time again.  Businesses that do not take immediate and aggressive action get repertation of being an easy mark, this information is pastes on to others friends, and they will try to take advantage of the situation if they believe to business is an easy mark.

I don't think I would shoot a person over a bag of candy, but I would attempt to detain them as long as my life was not in danger.  I woul;d arm myself, and be prepared in the event the perp attempted to do me bodily. 

[S.S.]

The last time I was at the police academy was when electronic stun guns were just getting popular.
The instructor put it very plainly and said Don't trust your life to one of these.
He then jabbed it into his own thigh and fired it up.
All it did was burn 2 holes in his pants. He was in no way incapacitated by it.
He then asked the biggest guy in the class to be a Guinea Pig and try it too.
Same result even down to the 2 holes in the pants. (the big guys left arm did
spasm a couple of times a few minutes later he said)
People are affected differently by electricity.
We used to have something that we called skunk spray. I can't remember
what it's real name is but it was horrible. It was kind of thick
so it would stick to a person. A chest/face hit with this caused instant
Gagging and vomiting. And no matter how hard one may try, you are not
going to fight while this is going on. I am not sure if it is available to the general public
or if it is still available at all. People would Gag so hard it would break their ribs, Piss themselves,
And Unload in their shorts, so it may no longer be marketed. There was a spray can like hairspray that would neutralize it.
This stuff worked great though so you may want to see if it is still out there.
The last I saw of it was a few years ago on a TV show and the company had loaded it into
Something like Paintballs to be fired from a distance from a paintball gun.
Less Lethal type of weapon like a bean bag from a shotgun.