Question for PaulS or anyone that wants to chime in!

[Bluegunner]

I just finished working up a load for my .22-250.  35.0 grains Varget seems to be producing a 4 shot grouping at 50 yds. that I can cover easily (with room to spare) with a dime. 34.5 and 35.5 spreads them out again. Going to load up two more groups of 35.0 grains to see if I have consistance.
Barnes recommended using the imformation for their 53-grain XFB bullet as they have no published information for the TSX-FB. For Varget the Charge Weight range is shown as 31.5-35.5 with 35.5 being Max. The undocumated believe is that the design of the TSX-FB would allow for higher grain loads as the pressure would build slower.
I have loaded and shot 36.0 & 36.5 grains with absolutely no visible sign that the cartriage is being stressed. I did not experience excess recoil, excess noise, and the bolt opens just as easily as with the lighter loads. As I moved from 35.0 to 36.5 the group is tighting up again.

My question to you is, does it make sense to try additional increases in the hope that the groups continue to tighten?  I don't think I approaching the max load yet, but I'm not the expert.  I still have room in the case for a grain or two before the powder compresses.  Will the higher velocity be worth it?  Would appreciate you input!

[JBMauser]

I will only comment that room in the case and not being near max load  are distractions.  Your barrel harmonics with the subject bullet has given you results to be well proud of.  You have results not theory in your hand.  Full cases and max loads are well know to specious theories.  wander if you must, but don't loose that recipe!. IMHO JB

[PaulS]

Bluegunner,

I suppose that you asked me to join in because i am the most conservative of reloader around. I am aware that Barnes says to use the lowest loading data for use with their TSX bullets - I think that is the original Barnes bullet but I don't have a manual. I know that they warn against using their data for the other "low pressure bullets" with the TSX because it causes excessive pressure. I don't have a manual. If the data that you are using is for the original Barnes X bullet and the maximum is listed at 35.5 and you are getting good groups at 35.0 (a lot of "if"s) I would say that you are doing fine with the load at 35.0 grains.
My experience shows that pressure will rise faster than velocity once you reach recommended maximums. I also know that the typical signs of excessive pressure may not begin to show until you are 10 to 20% OVER the 50000 psi point. If the SAAMI recommended pressure for your cartridge is 50000 PSI then I would stick to the accurate load that you have found. Why risk going over pressure for another 1 or 200 FPS? Is it going to kill your game any deader? will it extend your range more than 25 or 30 yards? Is it worth the risk of ruining your gun or injuring yourself or others?
As I understand it Barnes is going to be coming out with a new manual that will list data for the TSX bullets - use the load you have until it comes out and then you can see if you can safely use more powder and still get the accuracy that you have now.

Just my opinion - I am sure that some adventurous loaders will have different opinions and some will tell you how many guns they have blown up to find out how much powder they can "safely" load (I know one guy who actually did load guns until they blew up just to see how much they could take)

I just finished working up a load for my .22-250.  35.0 grains Varget seems to be producing a 4 shot grouping at 50 yds. that I can cover easily (with room to spare) with a dime. 34.5 and 35.5 spreads them out again. Going to load up two more groups of 35.0 grains to see if I have consistance.
Barnes recommended using the imformation for their 53-grain XFB bullet as they have no published information for the TSX-FB. For Varget the Charge Weight range is shown as 31.5-35.5 with 35.5 being Max. The undocumated believe is that the design of the TSX-FB would allow for higher grain loads as the pressure would build slower.
I have loaded and shot 36.0 & 36.5 grains with absolutely no visible sign that the cartriage is being stressed. I did not experience excess recoil, excess noise, and the bolt opens just as easily as with the lighter loads. As I moved from 35.0 to 36.5 the group is tighting up again.

My question to you is, does it make sense to try additional increases in the hope that the groups continue to tighten?  I don't think I approaching the max load yet, but I'm not the expert.  I still have room in the case for a grain or two before the powder compresses.  Will the higher velocity be worth it?  Would appreciate you input!

[Don Fischer]

Great reply Paul S. I think the biggest detriment to fine shooting is the power race. In the back of a lot of minds, people want their 22-250 to have the trajectory and power of the 220 Swift with the accuracy of the 222 Rem. We are so ovewhelmed with garbage that its sometimes difficult to seperate the chaff from the grain.

Bluegunner said that "he doesn't think hes approaching max yet." He also said he has a grain or two to go befor a compressed load. Bluegunner, the best you can do right now is to make the best loads you can within the guidelines of the manuals you have. At some point you'll not have to ask the question you did but will instead be able to answer it.

[Questor]

My tendency is to load below maximum, but near it.  I then use a chronograph to see whether the velocity is near what's expected. The performance is the same, but I am not pushing things. A hundred fps doesn't make a difference in performance.

That said, each cartridge has some lore about it that should be taken into account. It's worth the time to research the best 22-250 loads.

If I want maximum velocity I start with the powders and bullets that are documented to give highest velocities.  It looks like Varget is a good powder for maximum velocities.

[Bluegunner]

Hey Guys, I appreciate all your responses.  PaulS, I picked on you because everything that I have read that you have written is worth thinking about!!!  I'm trying to gather all the information I can to make safe decisions, and most of you have more knowledge and experience than I do.  I weight all the information that I take in and use it to try to make the best safe decisions I can, but when the decision is make it is my decision.  My judgement on why I might be able to go up another half to a full grain are based on the fact that I haven't received any signs of pressure buildup.  Today I even pulled and check the primer condition on the highest grain loads that I fired (actually, I've been checking them since the first loads).  The primers appear no different than the ones that I took from the lower grains loads, not showing any compression.  I have been checking all cases with a calipers and micrometer.  I've also been looking them over with a magnifier.  Everything at this point looks normal!  I appreciate you input and I'll let you know my final decision.

[PaulS]

Bluegunner,

I will make a quick attemt to find the articles about findings on actual pressures of loads that showed signs of over pressure. I feel the need to have it and it would come in handy when someone asks the kinds of questions that you are asking.
I know that the NRA published one of the articles but there was another one that was published by one of the powder manufacturers too. They both agreed that the only reliable way to know what the pressure a round is generating is to test it with the proper equipment after calibrating that equipment with calibration loads. (neither of which the common reloader has access to) when I find them I will post them and see if I can get it made into a sticky that will stay on top of the reloading page.

[The Sodbuster]

I can't remember the magazine (probably Handloader), but there was a good article by John Barsness (I think) regarding handloading and pressure signs.  The gist of it was when you see traditional high-pressure signs (cratered primers, difficult extraction, etc.) you are already in the danger zone.  He recommended using a chronograph to estimate pressure.  Velocity is directly related to pressure, and if your velocities exceed those of max loads in the manual, you're probably exceeding pressure limits too.  Makes sense to me, although I haven't gotten a chronograph yet.