Author Topic: My shooting sucks. Could use some advice! (Read 2151 times)

jeager106 · « **on:** April 16, 2006, 12:08:11 PM »

O.K. boys and girls. Lemme give ya some background then explain the problem and get my ego out of the way.
I'm retired Lt. Commader of SWAT, disabled 'in the line' some 11 years ago.
I was tactical defensive pistolcraft instructor and a gobblin might have been at deadly peril in my younger days.
I did shoot a lot, often, and could place all 8 shots from a 4506 in the K-5 of a silhouette target at 100 yards from the prone. After I left police work I quit carrying a handgun and quit shooting but remained a legend in my own mind!

Handgun hunting is vastly different from tactical weaponscraft.
I want to harvest a deer with a handgun.
I have the revolvers, .357, .45 a.c.p., .45 Colt, .44 mags, .44 special, .41 mags, all in 6 to 7.5 " all with issued sights.
From the bench they shoot well. Sometimes I get groups of 1.5" at 25 yards and under 3" at 50.
Good 'nuff what?
It's my offand shooting that stinks!
I do well enough at 25 but at 50 I fall apart.
I can NOT keep all 6 shots in a paper plate at 50.
I'm embarassed :oops: but have enough sense to tell the truth.
My skills have gone to crap.
I'm shooting the Ruger 3 screw Super Blackhawk with full house .44 mag. loads and can't hit squat offhand at 50 yards!
What do I do about it?
I'm not flinching as far as I can tell.
Perhaps I should go back to basics?
What do you think?
Dig out one of the .357 "N" frames and a pile of .38 spl. ammo and start practicing?

How about the .22 Ruger auto?
I know I do shoot the "N" Smiths better than the Ruger single actions, maybe it's familiarity from police work?
Maybe I shouldn't have tried full house magnum loads to start with after 11 years of very little handgun shooting?
Thoughts please?

swampthing · « **Reply #1 on:** April 16, 2006, 12:48:36 PM »

Long range shooting aside, for inside about 50 yds, trajectory is not much of a factor. I'd use that .41 or .44mag, as that is waht you will probably end up using to hunt with any way, and find "ACCURATE" low recoil, cowboy type, lead SWC loads for the .41 or just get a bunch of "ACCURATE" .44 spec el cheapo lead loads stand a 25yds and practice till you can hit inside 3or4 inches all day no problem, then I would move out to 35yds and repeat, then 50yds and also repeat. I like to set up clay pigeons on a back stop and take standing shots.
One piece of advice, clean all the copper jacket fouling out of the gun before you shoot lead, then just make about 15 passes with a brass brush when done with the lead and shoot out the rest.
Also I would take a look at www.oneraggedhole.com and grab a set of there peep sights for $25. ,well worth it and much cheaper than scopes, you would probably get them faster if you order them from www.brownells
Also hogue, www.getgrip.com, makes some great ergonomic grips if you really don't like your Rugers feel.
With these low velocity loads you will get a good feel for when the trigger breaks. When you start practicing with hunting loads, you may have to adjust your sights, the trajectory inside 50 yds will be just about identical.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #2 on:** April 16, 2006, 01:33:37 PM »

I don't care what anyone else says, 50yds. is a long way to shoot a handgun!
The more you shoot, the better you will become. I have a One Ragged Hole sight on my single six, along with a Marble's ramp and 1/16 ivory bead; shoots a lot better than with the factory stuff.
If you can put the bullet where you want it at 25yds., I think you are ready to hunt whitetails. Work on your hunting skills and I think you won't have a problem getting within 25yds. from a deer. Just hunt like you are carrying a bow, not a firearm, and you will be ok.

Good Luck,

Jim

mr.frosty · « **Reply #3 on:** April 16, 2006, 02:01:46 PM »

I still shoot at 25 yards then I will work on 50 using a scope.
With iron sights I wouldn't go any further than 30 or 40
with a scope I may go farther than 50 buts thats me and a scope.

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #4 on:** April 16, 2006, 02:08:57 PM »

This is how I got decent enough for hunting with a revolver.

Start shooting that 357 magnum at 100+ yards at targets like clay birds, or such. At first, you'll naturally be terrible with nothing but the occasional lucky hit. After several hunred, more likely thousands :lol: of shots, you'll be either hitting them pretty good, or at least coming very close with most shots.

After doing that for a few weeks, back up to around 50 yards, and see just how much better you've become. The only tip I can give you that would be different from combat style shooting is to "follow through" with your shot just like you were shooting a bow.

rockbilly · « **Reply #5 on:** April 16, 2006, 03:38:11 PM »

:shock: jeager106. You didn't state your age, but years sure do weird things to the eyes. At one point in my life I was a NRA Master Pistol Shooter, I managed to gain a spot on teams at most all of the military bases I was station on. About four months before retiring from the Air Force I passed a flight physical with flying colors. Approximately 8-10 months later I couldn't see the back side of a barn. Glasses corrected the problem, but even with the glasses, I don't shoot as well as I once did. I hunt with a pistol quite often, I use open sights and scoped guns. With my sight, I favor a gun with a scope, and then limit my shots to about 50-75 yards.

If you are still having problems, make an appointment and have the old eyes checked. Even if you already wear glasses, it may be necessary to have a pair made just for shooting. :wink:

jeager106 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2006, 04:08:10 PM »

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
None of you guys are shooting deer offhand at 200 yards?
Good gawd, wassa matter with ya? :-D
Wow it's great to get some sensible advice for a novice who wants to hunt with a stock six gun.
Defensive tactical pistol craft is a far different ball game than hunting with the handgun.
I maintained my defensive skills but the range was 25 yards maximum and it's far different hitting a human sihlouette in the K-5 offhand with a combat pistol than hitting the vitals of a deer at 50 offhand.

By the way. Which poster here has taken big game with a stock revolver at 200 yards offhand?

myronman3 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2006, 04:10:09 PM »

the secret is not extending your range, it is staying with in your ability. do that and you will be fine.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #8 on:** April 16, 2006, 04:15:33 PM »

Quote from: Jerry Lester

This is how I got decent enough for hunting with a revolver.

Start shooting that 357 magnum at 100+ yards at targets like clay birds, or such. At first, you'll naturally be terrible with nothing but the occasional lucky hit. After several hunred, more likely thousands :lol: of shots, you'll be either hitting them pretty good, or at least coming very close with most shots.

After doing that for a few weeks, back up to around 50 yards, and see just how much better you've become.

Jerry,
That is GREAT advice!!! I gotta' start doin' that. I have been doing that kind of stuff for years with the bow; shooting lots of broadheads at 70-80yds. Then when you get up to 30yds. the target looks absolutely huge. Now, I have to go buy some more brass so I can really stockpile loads....

Jim

jeager106 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2006, 05:00:29 PM »

Quote from: myronman3

the secret is not extending your range, it is staying with in your ability. do that and you will be fine.

Another sensible piece of sound advice.
I sure wish I could make offhand kill zone shots on big game with a hunting revolver!
By the way. How many experienced dedicated handgun hunters feel it's plausable to make 200 yard, even further, shots on big game with a hunting revolver under field conditions?
What does a dedicated handgunner have to do in order to get proficient enough to ethically sling lead at game animals at 200 yards and further with a hunting revolver?

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2006, 05:20:13 PM »

jeager106
A couple hundred yds? I dont think so. Even with a scope you would have to make a quick adj (say 18" high @ 100yds?) to get a hit out there.
100yds: much better, the first time I did this I sprayed 20 into 9" shooting offhand from the sitting position with iron sights.
Have since done better but the above was like a hunting situation where I only allowed a shot window of three to six sec to simulate the actual time avalible for a shot at a deer.

I normally practice at thirtyfive to sixty yards. Worked my way up slowly and dryfiring helps out a bunch. (dryfire every day)
Have Taken Two Deer so far. First was right at 30yds and the second was a whisker over 45yds.
I am happy with these ranges. Will continue to setup stands with this in mind. Kinda like a good pool shooter will tell you, leave the ball where you will never have to make a hard shot. :wink:

Skeeterbaymac · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2006, 05:26:53 PM »

I won't and can't hit anything with a pistol at no 200 yds. But I have heard that some fellows can do some pretty amazing things with contenders (read pistol form) at long ranges. I have never witnessed it but I guess there are guys that shoot farther than 200 yds. Some guys have a nack for shooting and spend there whole lives shooting at long distances and they are good at it. I guess there is even some long range matches for contenders. Some guys on here have talked about them and hitting steel plates at long ranges. I don't doubt them when they say they can do it I think some can and do.

My father was a fair pistol shot (read better than I) and I once witnessed him shoot a fox at about 80 yds with a revolver. Now he carried that same revolver most of his life and knew exactly were it shot. But when he was done he looked at me and said lucky lucky shot. I ask him about it later and he said he would never be able to do it again. I am not sure of that. But thats what he said and thats what I saw.

Just my two cents worth on the subject.

Skeeterbaymac · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2006, 05:36:25 PM »

I must be loosing my mind as I forgot about the late Elmer Keith. I guess he could make some amazing shots on wounded game with a stock revolver. I understand that he even proved it a few times for folks that didn't believe him. My point is I don't doubt the guys that can. I am just mad that I can't! :lol:

PaulS · « **Reply #13 on:** April 17, 2006, 12:34:36 AM »

jeager,

I used to shoot 1000 rounds a week at targets from 25 to 100 yards. No rest - no support from body parts - those were the rules. My gun was a 6" Ruger Security-Six.
I would start at the beginning if I were you. If the 44 mag is easy for you to shoot then find an accurate load - one that you will use for hunting.
Shoot it at 25 yards until you can keep them inside a two inch circle with a four inch bullseye. Shoot 25 rounds into that 2" group. When you can do that go to 50 yards and use the same four inch bullseye. Shoot at it until you can keep your rounds in a three inch circle. When you go to the range set a target at 25 and another at 50 yards and alternate between them.
Don't shoot until you are tired just shoot fifty rounds into each target as accurately as you can. When you get home empty and clean the gun and then practice dry firing in double action with a dime laying on the front sight blade. When you can pull the trigger five times without dropping the dime you are gaining ground. If you squeeze your hand just a bit more on one shot than you do normally or hold it just a bit more relaxed than normal you will shoot low and high by 2 - 4 inches at fifty yards and you will be off the paper at 100 yards. A consistant hold and smooth trigger pull is a requirement if you are shooting with a revolver. Keep shooting until you run through 100 rounds at each target before you begin to feel tired. When the 50 yard target has two inch groups on it then go on and place a target at 75 and start trying to hit that 4 inch bull at that range. You can increase the bull to 6 inch if you have to but it will take longer to get your groups down. Now you will be shooting at 25, 50 and 75 yards alternating 5 shots into each target and then going to the next. When you get a group then adjust your sights for 75 yards. Lock those sights down. It's back to the basics again double action dry firing with a dime on the sight, shooting one inch groups at 25 yards, 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards and 5 to 6 inch groups at 75 yards. Keep practicing until you get 4 to 5 inch groups at 75 yards. Your 50 yard groups will shrink to 2 inches about then. Then you go to 100 yards with a six inch bullseye and practice until you can keep all your 25 shots inside that 6 inch bull.
All practice is off-hand - no rest. Practice six days a week. You will be burning up over a thousand rounds a week and practicing a couple of hours each day at home dry firing. You will be reloading every day and then shooting them up the next day. After six months of doing this you will be ready to shoot game at 75 yards and have confidence that you will kill what you aim at. After a year you will have the same ability at 100 yards and if you keep up the training and keep stretching the range, in 2 or 3 years you will be able to shoot off hand at 200 yards.

BTW; after six months, shooting at 25 yards will not be satisfying anymore - your groups will always be under 2 inches and there won't be any challenge to it at all - Thats when you print up targets on construction paper (8 1/2 x 11) with five 1 1/2" bullseyes and shoot at them - then you will shoot around them, just to make it challenging you do paper cutting to remove the small black dots.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 17, 2006, 01:11:27 AM »

Quote from: jeager106

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
None of you guys are shooting deer offhand at 200 yards?
Good gawd, wassa matter with ya? :-D
Wow it's great to get some sensible advice for a novice who wants to hunt with a stock six gun.
Defensive tactical pistol craft is a far different ball game than hunting with the handgun.
I maintained my defensive skills but the range was 25 yards maximum and it's far different hitting a human sihlouette in the K-5 offhand with a combat pistol than hitting the vitals of a deer at 50 offhand.

By the way. Which poster here has taken big game with a stock revolver at 200 yards offhand?

You seem to have a fascination with shooting 200 yards with a revolver. Off hand shooting can be done at that range with the right gun and round, but in hunting conditions a rest is your best choice. Any time I am handgun hunting I carry shooting sticks and will take 90% of my shots under 100 yards with the aid of the shooting sticks. I would not of attempted anything further with a "revolver" until the 460 Mag came out. Yes the gun is capable and with the practice it is very doable but rare. Even though I can make longer shots, I prefer to get close as I can to game, I do enjoy the hunt and use my hunting skills to the fullest. You are only limited by the limitations you put on yourself.

Why waste your energy trying to prove a point? Concentrate on the task at hand.

Qaz · « **Reply #15 on:** April 17, 2006, 02:25:41 AM »

Jeager- Please take no offense, but your 50yd bench shooting is nothing to brag about, but I think you know that. :-) You may already do this, but I will mention it anyway. Sit down in a quiet room and just hold the pistol at arms length and aim at a spot on the wall for as long as you can. At first you will not be able to do it long before quivering. Build the time up to what you think it would take for a shot hunting and then add one minute. Now start doing it dry fireing and see how long you can hold it steady. I think you just need to retrain the muscles. You will be suprise how much better your off the bench shooting will be after doing that exercise.
An old pistolero told me when I got into the pistols; Most people can shoot well at 25yd, half that at 50yd, few at 100yd and very few past that. From what I have seen, it should be; some at 25, few at 50, very few past that.

Good Luck, Qaz

Questor · « **Reply #16 on:** April 17, 2006, 03:09:35 AM »

Jaeger:

You're very close to where you want to be. If you're shooting well enough at 25 yards, then you are also shooting well enough at 50 yards unless you let some attitude problems get in the way. Just practice some more at 50 yards and you'll get used to it. It seems like a long distance, but once you've practiced a bit more, it'll come naturally. By the way, I had a similar block recently when I switched from 50 yards to 50 feet. Those targets just looked different and they intimidated me a bit. Then I realized the problem for what it was and everything's OK now.

jeager106 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 17, 2006, 03:14:35 AM »

Quote from: Qaz

Jeager- Please take no offense, but your 50yd bench shooting is nothing to brag about, but I think you know that. :-) Yup sure do! You may already do this, but I will mention it anyway. Sit down in a quiet room and just hold the pistol at arms length and aim at a spot on the wall for as long as you can. At first you will not be able to do it long before quivering. Build the time up to what you think it would take for a shot hunting and then add one minute. Now start doing it dry fireing and see how long you can hold it steady. I think you just need to retrain the muscles. You will be suprise how much better your off the bench shooting will be after doing that exercise.
An old pistolero told me when I got into the pistols; Most people can shoot well at 25yd, half that at 50yd, few at 100yd and very few past that. From what I have seen, it should be; some at 25, few at 50, very few past that.

Good Luck, Qaz

What? My shooting stinks? No kidding. :-D
Your post makes very good sense. Most of the guys here post sensible stuff about realistic handgun hunting ranges and conditions.
Thank you for that. :lol:

Redhawk: I'm fascinated that anyone would make posts about long range shooting at targets and lead readers to believe that owning a .460 gee-whiz bang-bang magnum means a hunter can shoot game at 200 plus yards.
THAT is what fascinates me.
Here in Ohio we are pretty much limited to handguns, shotties, and black powder for deer.
There are reasons for that. When these laws were made pistols were short range, ergo, less dangerous, than an errant shot with a 30-06.
NOW we have the .460 (and others) and people posting that game can be taken at hundreds of yards.
It creates a misleading impression.
Here in Ohio we can always tell what idjit thinks he's Elmer Keith by the shots we hear. Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, followed by much cussing and all the other hunters crawling back out from behind cover.
We hear LOTS of this in the fall gun season.
I truely look for six shooters to be banned from hunting here in the near future.
Shotguns are now limited to three shots and the guys are getting sick of ducking boolits flying around the woods from six guns.
You see everyone does not hunt in Montana.
The shotgun guys are complaining now that if they have to use a plug to reduce capacity to 3 shots why can the handgun guys have 6 shots and now we have six guns that are capable of killing anything at long range and people posting about 200 yard accuracy without posting that shooting at game that far is unethical for 99.9% of the hunters in the field.

There is a huge difference between shooting a target from the bench at 200 plus yards and cleanly taking game at that range and perhaps people should post that when they write about how accuarate the big boys can be.
Once and only once I made a running shot on a button buck at 175 paces with a smoothie 12 bore and foster slug.
The slug hit the thing in the left ear hole dropping it like a stone.
I should never have attempted a stunt like that, I know it was a slobber shot and when I tell the story I say the truth.
No one should ever sling lead at a game animal at that range.
I was wrong to have tried it.
I was lucky, and the deer must have been cursed. :evil:

Now teach me how to hit and take deer at up to 100 yards under field conditions and I will be enternally grateful. :grin:
Oh, lest anyone misunderstand. I can hold my own in a gun fight but I'd rather not get involved with that anymore thank you very much.

:?

Skeeterbaymac · « **Reply #18 on:** April 17, 2006, 04:25:47 AM »

I see a problem that worries me greatly:

You stated "You look for six gun hunting to be banned in the future" and that "Shot gun hunters are complaining that they are limited to 3 rounds, why should six gunners have more".

This is a real problem and one we should all think about. We are being divided and in the end we will all loose. I understand this may or may not be your opinion Mr. Jeager106. But like you say some are complaining.

My point is I may not like to Bow hunt. But there is no way I will complain about bow hunters. Do I care that they get a early season where I live. No I do not, more power to them. By me supporting bow hunters, I am supporting my own interest as well. In the end Bow hunter's fighting for their rights is helping me fight for mine.

When it's all said and done, if the fine folks of the State of Ohio, outlaw hunting with revolvers you ALL will loose! The anit's will jump on it and pretty soon shotguns will go and before long you will be left with just bows. Then what? Should I care about what happens in the great State of Ohio, knowing I will never hunt there? You bet I should! If you folks loose your rights to hunt with handguns it could and will snowball over to other states, and where it will stop is anybodies guess.

I have looked at a number of your posts and have noticed that you have more than once refered to hunting with a handgun "were legal" Also some of your verbage leads me to believe you were a resident or have spent a lot of time in Canada. I may be wrong and I am sure you will tell me.

It has been my experience (living on the border) that many (read more in Canada than the USA "NOT ALL" Canadain's but more than in the USA), dislike handguns or handgun hunting. Could it be possible that your opinons of handgun hunting have been formed from time spent in areas that did not allow handgun hunting? I don't know it's just a theory :?

I know you refered to poor hunting safety as the reason. Well poor hunting safety happens just as much with shotguns and muzzle loaders as it does with handguns. If you have that much of a problem with safety issues in Ohio. I would be getting ahold of the NRA and the state officials responsible for hunters safety. Maybe some new training methods for young hunters or some constant reminding of safety practices for the old timers are in order. We need to police our own on this and stay ahead of a problem. The last thing anyone needs is the anti's taking the ball and running with it!

Just my opinon and thoughts!

Mikey · « **Reply #19 on:** April 17, 2006, 06:27:27 AM »

Ummm fellas - first of all let's get back on track.

jeager - give yourself a break man! 50 yds is difficult enough with a pistol not to mention an old 3 screw Ruger - those things have a hammer fall like a ton of bricks and if you haven't had that hogleg worked over by some expert to make it as slick a trigger and hammer as a S&W then you are already at a disadvantage. Then you add full house 44 mag loads into the equation and you aren't helping things at all. That is not the best combo to go offhand at 50 yds with. If you want to stay with that Ruger then load down some loads until you re-fam yourself with the intricate sweetness of a hammer heavy long barrelled magnum.

If you like the Smiths then go the same route - lighter loads first then up yourself to magnums. Go back to your basics. Start with that 22, then try your 38/357 and so forth. HTH. Mikey.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 17, 2006, 07:23:11 AM »

jeager106, The only reason I bring up 200 yards shooting is because I respond to your posts. I never said anyone can make 200 yards shots. I am saying the S&W 460 Mag is more than capable in the hands of the right handgunner. Just because the gun is capable does not mean the shooter is. And as far as my skill to be able to take game at long range, I CAN. So I am not allowed to give my personal experience without you thinking I am telling other they can do it if they buy a 460 Mag. You will always see, I post that a lot of practice is need to be able to make such shots.

All I can say is I hope you get your first deer with a handgun and see the pleasure you achieve by using a handgun. Once you do that and you make the commitment to practice you will want to try further shots. Good luck and I hope you do well.

Skeeterbaymac · « **Reply #21 on:** April 17, 2006, 08:08:50 AM »

Mr. Mikey: Sorry about getting off topic. :oops: I realize the original question was about how to improve shooting. I guess I just get nervous when I hear anything about doing away with some form of hunting. I will also say I am sorry to anyone else I may have offended. :oops:

xphunter · « **Reply #22 on:** April 17, 2006, 09:32:02 AM »

I do not know of anyone myself that is capable of making consistent 200 yard offhand shots on deer with a revolver in the field. I'm not saying there is not some who can do it, and I applaud their abilities and committment to the trade for those who can. Just because there are a few that can do it, doesn't mean that everyone else should try it while hunting (have all the fun you want on paper & steel).
I am one of those LR nuts and I do get to hunt in open areas. I don't hunt with a revolver much anymore, but when I do I carry shooting sticks, a pack, and I look for rests from nature itself. The lower I can get to the ground is usually the better for me. If stand hunting I make sure it is set-up in such a way that I can take advantage of the abilities of my revolver. I do not feel handicapped with a single-shot. Lethal First Shot Connections is what it is all about for me whether a revolver or a SP is used. You are not going to change people, but if someone is being dangerous or breaking the law I won't hesitate to call the authorities.
I would never try some things with my 6 inch S&W 586 that I would be willing to do (if the conditions were good, good rest, my heart rate was under control, and a safe backstop) with my 7.5 inch FA 454. Game being hunted, capabilities of the gun used, capability of the shooter, and the conditions are some of the main factors that determine what one should or shouldn't do.
Little OT here but it fits the analogy I mentioned above:
My first big game cartridge in a Contender was a Super 14 7mmTCU. My current XP (which will be in my hands this week Lord willing :-D ) is a 7mm Dakota (200 grain Wildcat Bullet @ 2700 fps, BC of .850 or a 160 Nosler AB around 3000 fps). The difference between these two SP's is the difference of night and day. Take a skilled shooter in field conditions and it would be wrong and unethical IMO to me to use the Super 14 TC at the distances he could use the 7mm Dakota.
Take an unskilled shooter and give them both SP's and the distances he could ethically take big game with in the field would be about the same or close to it.
In fact, the unskilled shooter would be more likely to miss or be hurt w/the Dakota since there is an intimidation factor with such a big case and flinching could be an issue to top that all off, it has a Leupold rifle scope mounted on it & it's lowest power setting is 8.5x.
Several have said to live within your limitations and practice to increase them. I agree.
If you increase your abilities beyond that of your handgun, either be content with the limitations of your handgun or get another one that is bigger.

jhalcott · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2006, 09:52:37 AM »

skeeter, you beat me to it on this! Is jaeger looking for advice or an excuse to condemn hunters? I NEVER shoot offhand if i can help it. No matter what I'm shooting. I practice hundreds of rounds a week with handguns, mostly airguns in the basement or back yard. I use a 22 rf to keep familiar with the sights and reduce the stresses of recoil.I have killed deer with T/C's and bolt pistols beyond 200 yards using scopes and good rests. I've used my 44 mag Ruger SBH WITH A SCOPE to kill deer past 100 yards.I practiced shooting clay pigeons for 2 months before I tried it on a live animal.I shot silly wets for years to help with the shooting. Maybe you could find a club in your area that hosts these shoots.When you see some guy shooting his revolver at the shoot off targets it will open your eyes to the possibilities of LONG RANGE shooting.

xphunter · « **Reply #24 on:** April 17, 2006, 10:08:48 AM »

jaeger (or anyone else),
jhalcott's post caused me to think about something else. If you want to see what (sorry revolver shooter's) SP's are capable of there is a shoot/seminar coming up the first of May in North Central Nebraska.
This is on steel targets and there will be one for sure that is a wet behind the ears novice shooters to expereinced ones. Targets will go out to 1k. If you are a doubting Thomas about what is possible, you can see the SP's and witness the targets. If you ask politely, you can shoot some of these rigs yourself

The same format could be done with wheelguns if one wanted to put it together.

Skeeterbaymac · « **Reply #25 on:** April 17, 2006, 10:34:26 AM »

Mr. Jhalcott: I am no pistol shot of anykind. Your shooting is by far better than mine.

I can do ok with open sights out to 50yds. I can hit a Skoal can or a clay bird a good bit at 25yds. When I miss it's a close miss. If I have a scope on a long barrel pistol then I can go out to maybe 75 yds effective range For game. I don't trust myself much after that. All this is with a field rest, such as a tree or log, ect.

My earlier comments at the start of the thread were just to point out that some guys such as you can shoot long distances (I am not one). But even though I can not I do not doubt you can. :grin:

jeager106 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 17, 2006, 02:56:29 PM »

Hokey smokes fellas I ain't condemning handgun hunting just relating some experiences here in Ohio.
I hunted in Canada for years and handgun hunting is not allowed.
Too bad. Canada sucks.

I'll take the advise on practice at 50 with the open sighted revolver.
I'll try the Smith since they fit me better and with lighter loads at that.

Speking of handgun hunting experiences.
Years ago, mayb 30 years ago I was invited to a "pay hunt" in 3000 unfenced acres.
Catalina goats and wild hogs were the most popular 'game'.
I took a Marlin .35 Rem and dropped a 300 pound boar with one shot at 75 yards.
One of our party shot a Catalina goat with a Python 6" TWENTY FOUR TIMES.
Another took a 200 pound bore with a .44 mag wth ELEVEN shots, and another guy using a .41 mag took a meat sow using FIVE shots from the Smith.
Not too impressive.
I will say that the expanding bullets of that period were not very good.
In fact we recovered quite a few and there was no expansion at all especially the .357 158 grain factory load.

Redhawk: I'm glad you can make long range shots on game.
I'm completely impressed.
I doubt I'd ever have the skills to try such a thing myself.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 17, 2006, 03:45:59 PM »

Quote from: jeager106

What? My shooting stinks? No kidding. :-D
Your post makes very good sense. Most of the guys here post sensible stuff about realistic handgun hunting ranges and conditions.
Thank you for that. :lol:

Redhawk: I'm fascinated that anyone would make posts about long range shooting at targets and lead readers to believe that owning a .460 gee-whiz bang-bang magnum means a hunter can shoot game at 200 plus yards.
THAT is what fascinates me.
Here in Ohio we are pretty much limited to handguns, shotties, and black powder for deer.
There are reasons for that. When these laws were made pistols were short range, ergo, less dangerous, than an errant shot with a 30-06.
NOW we have the .460 (and others) and people posting that game can be taken at hundreds of yards.
It creates a misleading impression.
Here in Ohio we can always tell what idjit thinks he's Elmer Keith by the shots we hear. Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, followed by much cussing and all the other hunters crawling back out from behind cover.
We hear LOTS of this in the fall gun season.
I truely look for six shooters to be banned from hunting here in the near future.
Shotguns are now limited to three shots and the guys are getting sick of ducking boolits flying around the woods from six guns.
You see everyone does not hunt in Montana.
The shotgun guys are complaining now that if they have to use a plug to reduce capacity to 3 shots why can the handgun guys have 6 shots and now we have six guns that are capable of killing anything at long range and people posting about 200 yard accuracy without posting that shooting at game that far is unethical for 99.9% of the hunters in the field.

There is a huge difference between shooting a target from the bench at 200 plus yards and cleanly taking game at that range and perhaps people should post that when they write about how accuarate the big boys can be.
Once and only once I made a running shot on a button buck at 175 paces with a smoothie 12 bore and foster slug.
The slug hit the thing in the left ear hole dropping it like a stone.
I should never have attempted a stunt like that, I know it was a slobber shot and when I tell the story I say the truth.
No one should ever sling lead at a game animal at that range.
I was wrong to have tried it.
I was lucky, and the deer must have been cursed. :evil:

Now teach me how to hit and take deer at up to 100 yards under field conditions and I will be enternally grateful. :grin:
Oh, lest anyone misunderstand. I can hold my own in a gun fight but I'd rather not get involved with that anymore thank you very much. :?

jeager106, I just wanted to give you some food for thought in response to some of your comments.
The 3 shell rule with shotguns. Where did that come from? Well here you go. A long time ago when the old duck hunters were shooting the double barreled shotgun, and then the pump shotguns started showing up, they did not like the fact the pump shotguns held 5 rounds. So the up roar from the old double barreled shotgun guys caused the feds to make a 3 shot rule for duck hunting, which carried over to deer hunting in shotgun only states. A lot of states allow 5 to 10 rounds in rifles so why not 6 shots in a revolver?

PaulS · « **Reply #28 on:** April 17, 2006, 03:52:38 PM »

Jeager,

One thing you should understand . . .

Only a fool shoots without a rest when one is available. In hunting situations there are trees, rocks, shooting sticks and even laying on your back using your knees to support your shooting arm - especially at long ranges. That is not to say one might not be good enough to shoot a deer (in the vitals) without the support - just that a wise man uses everything to better the odds in his (her) favor.
Practice without the rest and when you make that hunting shot from behind a tree, use it to steady that shooting arm of yours.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #29 on:** April 17, 2006, 04:42:08 PM »

Quote from: jeager106

What does a dedicated handgunner have to do in order to get proficient enough to ethically sling lead at game animals at 200 yards and further with a hunting revolver?

This is an easy one...buy a decent rifle!!! :shock: Seriously though, if due to terrain, prey, or lack of hunting ability, you are unable to get closer than 200yds. to the animal, why even carry a handgun???

Kinda' like gettin' into bowhunting and then wanting to know how to be able to stick a deer at 80yds with an arrow...kind of misses the whole point of bowhunting.

As I get off my soapbox, let me say that the guy who leaves powder burns on the deer's hide impresses me a whole lot more than the guy who gets one at 300yds. It's called hunting....not shooting.

Jim