Kentucky or Hawken?

[22rimfan]

Hello all.  I am in the market for a traditional BP rifle and I was wondering between the Traditions Kentucky Rifle and a Cabela's Hawken Rifle, which would you choose?  Both would be a flint lock and I would like to shoot just patched round balls from both.  Which would be a good first flint rifle?  I like the long barrel and traditional look of the Kentucky but I would take the Hawken if it is a better rifle for someone who has never used a flint lock before.  I have use a Hawken percussion, dad's, and my Knight Disc so I have some knowledge on ML's just not flints.  Oh and the Kentucky would be ordered from Thunder Ridge Muzzle Loading.  I have never done buisiness with them so is there anything I should watch out for there?  Thanks for your responses and time.
Aaron

[Snowshoe]

If it was a cap lock you were after I would say go with the one that feels better, but a flinter is picky. I would get a Lyman, they are just better all round.

[captchee]

A good flint lock ignition is just as and  reliable and fast as a cap lock  BUT
 When that ignition isn’t properly maintain , built correctly our built and not tuned  it can be a living nightmear to get to work consistently .

 IMO Traditions puts their flash hole two low  in the pan .  that’s an easy one . They insist they don’t  but I have yet to see any of their guns that I have worked on not have this problem . this creats  slow ignition  and un relability  if the shooter does not watch his pan load a lot

 The other thing is depending on your physical build the roman comb of the stock on the traditions  guns may not fit you well and cause a problem with proper sighting  or un comfortable shooting .
 Other then those two things the   traditions guns I have owned I enjoyed . They can be nice shooters but IMO will need some lock work  to make the fast and consistent at the very least .

 The cabalas hawken isn’t a bad buy , again frizzen problem  as to hardness seems to be a roll of the dice  but over all not bad .
 Now the lyman ? For a first time shooter  who wants a reliable entry level piece  with few common problems  , that’s the way to go . They spark well . Flash hole is placed properly or close to it . They shoot very well right out of the box .

 The other thing I might add is to find someone near you to mentor you in flintlocks so as to help you through the learning curve  because  your going to learn a whole new set of rules concerning how to , what to do  and what not to do .
 You might also check out the Traditional Muzzleloading Association  and their organization forum . they traditional muzzle loading  only  lots of info  and knowledge their , Concerning custom guns as well as production  side lock  weapons like CVA and traditions .
 
 If you go down  their site to the trade blanket , you will often find  used weapons for sale at good prices

http://www.traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/index.html

 Now all that being said  I have only flint locks that I shoot … hands down , that’s where my enjoyment lies

[horseman308]

since the others have mentioned it, I'll just go ahead and say it: check out the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. From all accounts it's got to be the best out of the box side-lock ML out there. Yes, it can be a bit more expensive than some other guns, but my opinion is that you get what you pay for. The GPR just seems better built. Also, if you are interested in it, you can get the GPR in kit form for about $300 for MidSouth Shooters Supply (www.midsouthshooterssupply.com) in flint. Even better, if you really like it, you can upgrade the lock with one from L&R (check out Track of the Wolf) and upgrade the touch hole liner and you'll have a gun that will literally last more than a lifetime with good maintainence.

[Wing]

Here in Pa. Flitntlocks are mandatory for the 2nd muzzleloader season and was the norm until the recent addition of the early muzzleloader season for doe in Oct.  I have friends that own the cabela's in the 50 & 54 cal. and love them. They are very accurate.  I have a friend who also had one and sent his back because the powder was leaking from the pan.  I own 2 TC Hawkens and love them. They are accurate and hardly misfire. My son has a Traditions deer hunter. It's made cheaply but pretty accurate and very light.  I also have a few friends that have the lymans in a couple different models and they love them. I have seen quite a few flintlocks over the years and would suggest saving your money and go with a TC or Lyman, both have excellent customer service and stand behind their product.  But if I had to choose between the two your are asking about  I would go with the Cabela's (made in Italy).  The components are a higher quality and the wood is much nicer. It's just better made overall.

[22rimfan]

Thanks everyone for your replies.  I appreciate the info that was given.  I have another question to ask.  I have been told and read the FFFFg powder should be used to prime a flint lock.  I have looked for this powder today at my local gunshops and could not find it.  Could a person use FFFg or another form of Black Powder to prime the pan safely or is FFFFg the only safe way to go?  Like I stated earlier I am completely new to flint locks.  Thanks for your replies.
Aaron

[ButlerFord45]

Prime from the horn. In one rifle, I get faster ignition with 3F than I do with FFFF.

[captchee]

Thanks everyone for your replies.  I appreciate the info that was given.  I have another question to ask.  I have been told and read the FFFFg powder should be used to prime a flint lock.  I have looked for this powder today at my local gunshops and could not find it.  Could a person use FFFg or another form of Black Powder to prime the pan safely or is FFFFg the only safe way to go?  Like I stated earlier I am completely new to flint locks.  Thanks for your replies.
Aaron

 
that depends on the make up of the rifle .
 if you have a large  coned flash hole , a liner that enlarged ,3 F can be fine . its also less  susceptible to humidity  then 4F
   There are many late self priming lock designs that  used the same powder as the main charge .
 Myself I like 4F , I have always found it to be consistent. I have used 3F in a pinch

[Bob Hurley]

Since this is your first flintlock, there's one important thing you may not know (thanks to the movies and TV) - a flintlock should go BANG!, not pfffsst...BANG. If you can detect any delay at all between pulling the trigger and the gun firing, something isn't right.

[Swamp Yankee]

I myself would go with the Hawken or any rifle with a hooked breech. The reason is I can remove the barrel from the stock for easier cleaning. There wouldn't be a problem using fff to prime with....Jim

[22rimfan]

Hello all.  Again thanks for your replies.  I just wanted to let everyone know that I ordered a Lyman Great Plains Rifle.  After what I have read here and seen I went Lyman.  Thanks for the sugestion.  Now the wait beings.  A couple more questions if I may?  What do I need to know about this rifle?  Is FFFg a good powder to prime with, since as stated earlier that is all I can find except for Pyrodex R and RS and the Triple 7?  Is 80 grains a good load for this rifle with a patched ball?  I know it depends on the rifle but is 80grs a good place to start or should I start with 50 and work my way up?  Thanks again.
Aaron

[dodd3]

get on the lyman site and click on black powder scroll down till you see
instructions here you will need acrobat reader scroll down the instructions page till you get to the load data ..try this http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/index.htm
bernie

[flintlock]

I didn't see what caliber you bought..So I'm assuming a .50 or a .54...
I shoot 80grs ff as a deer load in my .54...but you are safe using between
80 to 100 ff or fff in either caliber as a hunting load....I drop down to 50 grains when I squirrel hunt with the .54...I would recommend shooting the first few shots with 50 grs just to get used to the gun...then move up to 75 to 80 and adjust the sights and start working on the load....Enjoy....Good luck...

[Winter Hawk]

3f will work just fine for priming.  It cuts down on carrying something extra (priming horn).  My expereince with 4f has been that it will turn to soup in rain, no matter how tight the pan closes.  I don't have that problem with the fffg.

You didn't say what you were working up a load for.  I would start at 50 gr, maybe even less and work up until you find what the rifle likes.  You shouldn't need to go much more than 80 grains for a deer load.

You might want to take a 3M Scothbrite pad, cut it into 1 1/2" squares, spray them with WD-40 and run them down the bore and back.  It will take about a hundred in-and-outs, but your bore will thank you for it.  Be sure to change the green scrubbie patches often.  Then clean it well and oil it with olive oil (get the cheap stuff, it doesn't need to be virgin or extra-virgin).  Most folks say don't use petroleum based lubes, though there are those who swear by WD-40, Breakfree etc.

Have fun.  It can be addictive!   :grin:

-Winter Hawk-

[Stock02]

The same company that makes the Lyman also makes the Cabelas for what it's worth.