Winchester Super Express Controlled or push feed?

[PDR]

Does anyone know how to tell whether a Winchester Model 70 “Super Express” .375 H&H is push feed or controlled feed? I am going to look at one on Saturday. The dealer tells me that the rifle is probably about 10 years old.

I’ve looked at Winchester’s site and it looks as though the “super Express” was introduced in 1990. Winchester went back to controlled round feed in 1994.

Is there any way I can tell by looking at the rifle bolt?

I've been looking for a .375 H&H and was thinking about a CZ550 new, but there is this Wincester available second hand for a great price with reloading gear and 100 empty cases. Has to be worth a look.

Thanks in advance.

[Cecil]

control feed has a lobster claw extracter like the masuer, push feed dosn't , hope this helps

[CowboyEngr]

Yes, Cecil is correct.  The controlled round version has a mauser type extractor and the push feed version has a Remington 700 type extractor.  The Mauser type extractor is mounted to the bolt by a retaining ring that goes all the way around the bolt itself.  The controlled round extractor is approx. 2/3 the length of the entire bolt, while the push feed type extractor is much smaller and attached directly to the "head" of the bolt within a locking lug.

[corbanzo]

How much?  If you don't mind the asking.  I know I'll piss some people off with this one, but a lot of model 70's are overpriced.  Not saying they aren't good rifles, but the quality to price ratio just isn't that great.  I have a CZ550 in .458Lott, and it's a shooter.

[PDR]

Thanks for the help.

To answer your question Corbanzo, maybe I should point out that I live in “Rip off Britain” so we already pay much higher prices.

I guess that I should also state that I am already a big fan of CZ Rifles and own a .22 model 452 Varmint, .308 model 550 Laminate Varmint and an old .22  model 581 BRNO semi auto.

I was considering buying a new CZ 550 American Safari in .375 H&H, but a friend told me that he had seen this Winchester model 70 and that it was a good buy.

The dealer told me that “there must be a couple of hundred quids* worth of bullets, cases & reloading gear”. The price is $703 which seems very good to me.

*quids, slang for £££ like you use bucks for $$$

To give you some idea of recommended retail prices over here and discounts where available:

CZ .22 Varmint            (new) $500      with discount I paid $400
CZ. 308 Varmint Lam. (new) $1,616    with discount I paid $1,104

On order:
Marlin 1895GS .45/70 (new) $1.280      with discount I will pay $1,122


Tomorrow I will be picking up a good used Marlin 1894C .357/38. These cost new $850 and second hand between  $625 - $750. The asking price for this 1894C  is $400 which is a bargain over here. We get ripped off all the time, a gallon of gas is $8

[MGMorden]

Interesting.   I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that you guys weren't allowed to own any "real" firearms.  Would you mind filling my in on the status of the laws there?  (ie, what you can own and what you have to do to purchase).

If you'd prefer you can respond via PM to keep the off topic stuff out of the thread, but I'm sure other people would be interested in the info.

[msorenso]

I have 2 safari expresses in 416 and 458.  I have no complaints. Though I do not own one I do plan soon to have a CZ 550 magnum in 458 lott & 375.  They are very nice.  I would agree the price to quality ratio are better with the c-z.  You just can't beat the price of the c-z's.  

[PDR]

Hello MGMorden,

I don’t mind at all.

I will put this link here to the Police / Home Office guidelines:
http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/operational-policing/firearms.html

We have two main types of licence, one is the Shot Gun Certificate (SGC) the other is the FireArms Certificate (FAC).

The SGC is the more common with about 500,000 issued for vermin control / game bird or clay pigeons. It is much easier to get than an FAC and providing the police checks come back ok and you have good reason to own them (farmer or member of shooting club) and you have somewhere safe to store your guns, then you can go out and buy as many “normal shoguns” as you like. You can not have a shotgun with a magazine capacity of more than 3 shots on a SGC but you can on a FAC.

FAC’s are more difficult to obtain and the police checks are more stringent. Currently there are 140,000 people with an FAC. There are two categories of FAC, those for sporting use hunting / vermin control and those for target use.

Hunting FAC’s:
For rifles used for hunting, the land has to be checked and cleared by the police. They will state the maximum calibre that can be used on that land and also what species of animals may be shot with a given calibre. The person has to give “good reason” for each rifle owned or requested. Some people are able to have 2 rifles of the same calibre, one with a scope for daylight hunting and another with night vision for after dark. Typically a person might be granted 2 or 3 calibres. .22RF for rabbit, .243 for fox and .308 for deer. There are a lot of different calibre choices, but these would be typical of what a person might ask for. You might get a multishot shotgun for vermin control but they prefer not to grant them. Over the last year or two there have been several cases where deer hunters have been granted centre fire pistols for humane dispatch of deer at close quarters. You can use expanding ammunition but can’t have any for large dangerous game calibres because we don’t have any dangerous game in the UK. I think they might make an exception for Zoos & Safari Parks.

Target FAC’s:
Once you have joined a shooting club and done a probationary period, you can apply for a FAC for target shooting. The Firearms Dept. are a bit more lenient when it comes to guns used only for target use. They don’t normally like you to have more than one gun of the same calibre (though I had two .308’s). An exception is .22 RF. You can have one bolt action for slow fire precession shooting and a semi auto .22 for fast fire round comps. You might be able to get another .22RF if you say you want one for the iron sight class comps.

Gallery Rifle is another popular choice, where lever actions are used .357/38 & .44  Muzzle loading rifles and pistols are another common class. At an indoor range you will typically see people shooting .22RF, .357/38, .44 and .36 / .44 cap & ball revolvers.

At outdoor ranges you will see a wider range of calibres but typically these would be .243, .308, .300 win mag, .45/70 and .50 on some ranges. Each range will be given a safety template with the maximum power calibre to be used. Both the military ranges I shoot at are cleared up to 3,281 fps & 5,163 ft/lbs. I was thinking of applying for a .338 calibre rifle but they have banned civilians shooting these because of the extended range of this round.

You can’t have any expanding ammunition for target shooting at all!

There is an FAC class of shotgun which is used for Practical Shotgun shooting where High capacity magazines are used. These are used at special ranges

Changing guns / calibres can be a real pain and you have to send off new forms each time you want a variation. It normally takes about 10-14 days to process but last time mine took 2 months.

Currently I own:
.22RF CZ Varmint, bolt action
.22RF BRNO semi auto
.308 CZ 550 Varmint Laminate
.44 black powder revolver
Plus a number of shotguns.

Tomorrow I will be buying a Marlin 1894 in .357/38 and going to look at a Winchester.375 H&H. I know that the .375 is not a “typical” target rifle but I have spoken to my firearms officer and he says that I can have one but can’t have expanding ammunition. I have always had an interest in Safari Rifles and have spent time in Africa. We do have an Express Rifle Club in the UK.

I also have a Marlin 1895 GS in .45/70 on order since Jan this year and I’m still waiting.

As far as handguns go, we can have anything that muzzle loads including pocket derringers. We can have long barrel pistols/revolvers so long as they are at least 24” in overall length. (In Northern Ireland they can own proper handguns like you guys). Handguns where banned on the UK mainland in 1997 following the massacre of school children in Dunblaine. Handguns have been banned for 9 years but they are easy to obtain illegally in the big cites and many drug dealers carry them.

What we can’t have:

Centre fire hand guns under “24
Self loading rifles
Semi auto rifles except in .22RF

Any weapon at all intended for personal or home defence!

Hope this answers your question and gives you an insight to shooting here in the UK.
Regards, Paul

[MGMorden]

Yes, that was exactly the type of info I was looking for.  Thanks.

As mentioned I was under the impression that anything above air-soft was flat out illegal.  From the sounds of it it sounds similar to the process we'd have to go through for a full-auto weapon.  

While the whole process does seem like a huge hassle, I am glad to hear that you guys over there can at least continue to shoot at some level.

[victorcharlie]

Sounds to me like you need to vote in some gun friendly politicians.

[PDR]

Ok, I’ve been and had a look at the rifle. It is in good condition, with only a few very small dings in the woodwork. It is the push feed version of the Super Express. The previous owner took it on several trips to Africa hunting the big stuff. It comes with plenty of reloading gear. I put down a deposit to hold it while I get a variation on my Fire Arms Certificate sorted.

Also bought the Marlin .357 I mentioned. Came with all manuals and plenty of extras. So it’s been a good day for me.  :grin: