357 vs. 44

[Nomdic1]

Hey all,

I'm looking at purchasing a new handi for a "canoe" gun. My wife and I canoe quite frequently and are planning on doing some overnight trips. Would like to have a little back-up. Whats your opinions on the 357 vs 44. I'm thinking of a more survival/protection round. Capable of taking large (deer) and small game if necessary. Also thought about cutting barrel of either caliber, as to make it the most compact possible.
Thanks.

[cpj]

Cant go wrong with either one of them. The .44 would be sweet chopped off to 16 inches or so. Since it will be in a canoe, definately get the synthetic stock.  The .357 would be cheaper to shoot, but if you  reload, than there wouldnt be much difference, I suppose. Both are capable of taking whitetail deer.

[knight0334]

alternative suggestion..

the nickel 45/410 survivor lopped off..   then have a smith rethread the barrel for a choke.   The 45LC can be hopped up to 44mag levels easily.

[mt3030]

I did the same thing to make a "Hiking" rifle years ago. It was one of the earlier Topper 357s, with the light profile barrel. Cut it to 16.5 inches, Williams receiver rear sight. This was before the currently available synthetic stocks, which as already mentioned, is the way to go. Lighter and water proof.

I went with the 357 because I wanted the option of using the wide assortment of 38 Specials, especially the wadcutter lead loads, for small game. Cheap to shoot factory, cheap to handload for, less weight and bulk of ammo, less recoil and muzzle blast (easier to shoot accurately),.....

Wish I still had mine. Now I think I need another!!

Wally

[ddhotbot]

you could do like i did and get the 357 mag and lengthen the chamber too handle the 357 max cartridge.then you could shoot the 38,357 mag and the 357 max.it going too be a great little deer gun.i had a 357 mag barrel fitted too a .223 survivor frame,great set up, light and quick handling plus you have storage in the butt .hope this helps don

[Blammer]

I'd go with the 357 because you can get some snake shot for it.

the 38's do wonderful for small game like rabbits, etc and the 180 gr bullets are good for deer out to about 100 yards if needed.

bullets are smaller and weigh less, and may be cheaper.

[cgturner7]

I, too, am interested in getting a .357 barrel.  I know I'm showing my ignorance here but what are wadcutters?  Also, I'm not a reloader, but is there a place where I can buy .357 max ammo?  I understand the idea of reaming to max and I would like to do it if I buy a new barrel but if I don't have anywhere to buy ammo then it's pointless.  Thanks for the help.

[darat100]

I have the .357 and love it.  I don't know how comfortable your wife is with guns,but the .357 is an easy shooter.  I have heard some of the comments on here about the .44 and it may not be something she is comfortable with.

just another thought

[Mac11700]

I'm looking at purchasing a new handi for a "canoe" gun. My wife and I canoe quite frequently and are planning on doing some overnight trips. Would like to have a little back-up.

In this situation of wanting it for a canoe..I wouldn't go for a single shot rifle..I would be looking for a good 357 or 44 mag pistol and a good holster to take along.. but this is just my thinking..it will suffice to take game with..and offer personal protection as well..

Mac

[quickdtoo]

I'm not a reloader, but is there a place where I can buy .357 max ammo?  

I know of 2 sources for .357 Max ammo, Reeds and Bullseye...

Tim

https://shop.reedsammo.com/splashPage.hg

http://www.bullseyeguns.com/danammo.asp

[MSP Ret]

"what are wadcutters?"

A wadcutter is a cylindrical bullet, looking much like a bullet that has been cut from a piece of a lead rod the same diameter from front to back. It has a fairly flat nose and usually a hollow base. It is used primarily in revolver target ammo and many .38 Specials/.357 Magnums are loaded with them for target practice use. They cut a perfectly round hole in the target paper and are very easy to score. They also are deadly on small game and some have loaded them reversed in the shell case for small game and close range protection loads to take advantage of the hollow base and use it as an extremely large hollow point bullet. Even in a mid range .38 special it is a good defense load, especially for women because of the reduced recoil....<><.... :grin:

[myarmor]

I agree about the 45/410 in this particular application. Light weight,Compact, and you can carry a couple Slugs for bigger game, and shot for snakes and other baddies/bunnies, etc..
I believe it would be the most versitle as well as less $$ too.
But the question was about either a 357 or 44Mag.
I say 357.
-Aaron

[Awf Hand]

Is there any reason that you're not considering a shotgun (perhaps a 20 gauge?) for your protection/survival gun?  You can do all of the tasks that you'd be asking the 357 or 44 to do, and you can easily take deer/birds/rabbits etc. should the need for survival become the top priority.  Just about any boonies' gas station will have shells for them as well.  
I already own a 357 Handi, but it wouldn't be my choice for the ONLY gun I'd take into a remote area.

The 410 slug is pretty much useless in my opinion.  -Unless you just wanted to scare that deer away.

[dbking]

I'd go with the 44 mag. For three reasons: 1) You can shoot fullpower 44 mag loads and they handle alot more than any 357, 2) You can also shoot 44 special loads and 3) If you reload(like I do) you can load from 44sp to 300+ grn 44 mag loads. With a 44 you can cover all your bases--from low to extra hot.



All opinions above are mine.................so get your own :-)

[Nomdic1]

Awf Hand,

I did consider the shotgun aspect, however I guess part of me may be using the canoe gun as justification to get another handi, and I already own several shotguns(not handis) and I really wanted a 357/44. I feel as though either of these calibers would be an easy shooting, but potent combo that I could use outside of camping for deer or just plain shooting. It's all logical in my head. Just don't think the other half see's it my way. LOL.

[aulrich]

I think it is a toss up the 357 should do better on small than 44 but 44 is a better deer round.  One other consideration is you  you can pack more 357 that 44 so you can save yourself a couple of pounds in ammo.

[RemingtonMagnum]

The 357 is so sweet that your Lady will love every trigger pull.

Don Jackson Remington Magnum/Ultramag   :grin:

[safetysheriff]

hey,

Mac' alluded to something to think about, since your 'main squeeze' (wife) will be out with you after dark, along a river, in a woods, etc.etc.etc.

you need to think of self protection, and that means a repeater.    nobody in their right mind -- today -- buys a single shot when it may be needed for protection.   you get up off your wallet and buy a repeater because your marriage and your safety are easily well worth it.  

i'd get a Marlin lever action in .357 mag' and load it up almost full when i took 'momma' out overnight.    it'll kill deer --- and miscreant souls who think that making trouble for you is a fun idea!

there are too many violent people out there who don't mind hurting others.   don't let anyone turn a camping trip into a nightmare for you......at least not for free!

best to you,

ss'

[Mac11700]

SS...your right.. :wink:

I still wouldn't go for a rifle though..I've tumped canoes several times...and the last thing I want to worry about is losing a rifle when this happens...(ergo...invest in a good holster...) and depending on just how big and mean the critters are..would determine wither I opted for a 357 or a 44...I've hunted small game with both...and both work well with the right loads..but if there are bears around..make mine a 44 MAG...

Mac

[A.J.]

I'm sorry, but I just cringe when I see somebody buy a Handi or a contender in a pistol cartridge. It is such a waste of the rifle/pistol's potential! You want something small and handy in a revolver chambering? Buy a revolver! If you're just wanting an excuse to get another Handi (like we all are), and are looking for something cheap and easy enough to shoot that the Missus would even enjoy shooting AND have all the power you might need, get a Handi in 7.62x39. The shells are cheaper than the new .17 rimfires, have a light recoil, and can still take a deer down inside a hundred yards. I think if you shop a little and compare you'll find the 7.62x39's are cheaper than any of your pistol caliber bullets you're looking at, possibly with the exception of the .38's. Whatever you decide to do, though...DON'T be shooting at a deer at a hundred yards with a 38 special...not even with 180 grain bullets. Respect your game!

[RackWrangler]

I agree with Mac.  I've dumped my canoe a few times, and was glad that I had my gun holstered.  Go with a revolver and a holster.  I love my Ruger GP100.  I can accurately hit a deer's vitals at 50 yards shooting off-hand (I've take 2 this way in the last 4 years) and 38's make nice small game/practice bullets.  Not to mention it's lighter and easier to carry than a rifle.

Your other option would be some kind of secure mount in the canoe.  It wouldn't be as quick to bring into play as a holstered pistol, but if you're stuck on a Handi it will keep your gun off the floor of the river/lake.  

In that case, I'd go with the 44.  Might as well get everything you can out of the rifle.  

RackWrangler

[safetysheriff]

while i would definitely restrain a rifle that is in a canoe, so as not to lose it if tipped over, {yeah, Mac's right!} i still think that the rifle is the better choice for protecting, hunting, and helping with a lady aiming/handling the thing.   sure, women can handle handguns; but .357 rifles are easier on the shooter than even a heavy Ruger double action revolver.   the recoil and the muzzle blast are Both part of the equation.   i myself have used both the Marlin in .357 and the Ruger GP-100.......so i know.  

i'd get a .44 mag' any day ahead of a .357 or .41 mag, or a .45 LC, for hunting, and protection.   it's just more versatile with light loads for small stuff and thumpers for 'whatever'.   but, can momma handle one?

a .357 with 180 or 200 grain bullets of proper construction can readily hunt and provide protection to maybe 150 yards.  

but, those are just my opinions.

good luck,

ss'

[quickdtoo]

You can always buy a floating gun case, I bought one for turkey hunting when we float the Klickitat river in my cataraft, they're not expensive and you have an extra gun case when you need it!! :wink:

Tim

Floating gun cases at Cabelas

http://www.mackspw.com/sort.asp?id=360_364&d=Floating_Gun_Cases

[Nomdic1]

As far as the wife handling the recoil, she will be fine. She has some experience in shooting, and has shot some centerfire and shotgun. She just finished qualifying on the M9 beretta 9mm with the gov't. and is qualifying with the M16 next month. In discussion with her, she feels more comfortable with having a long gun in a situation as opposed to a handgun. So it sounds like a green light to me for a new handi. As far as actions go, I think that in a crisis situation she would handle the simplicity of a break action single shot better than safetys and actions on a repeater. Push a buuton, the action opens and drop one in and cock it. Keep it simple principle. I sicerely hope I never need to test that theory. And I like the principle of make the first shot count as far as food gathering.

[A.J.]

Just one more post...This business of shooting animals out to 150 yards with a .357. Energy-wise, a .30-30's maximum practical range on deer sized animals is 150 yards. All I ask is you look at a ballistics table and compare the energy of a .357 to a 30-30 at varying distances. With a good hot accurate round in an accurate rifle, I think the 357 would be a capable coyote round out to a hundred yards, and a competent deer round under 50 yards if presented with a broadside through-the-lungs shot, and you'd STILL have some tracking to do. I don't care WHAT round you get, but before you choose one, study the trajectory and energy charts and make an informed decision. The 357/38 is basically a toy in a rifle. I'd hate for you to realize it's limitations after you bought it and wind up retiring it early to the back of the gun cabinet. Again, as long as you keep deer-size and larger game off the menu, it's a fun little cartridge to plink with. I still don't understand if your wife is so capable with firearms why you're not looking at a little more potent rifle round. Even the pip-squeak .223 will run circles around a .357.

[RemingtonMagnum]

In trajectory we must also ascertain has this information ben calculated from a Revolver are a 18 ½" barrel? Yes the 357 Mag is a viable Deer choice at 100 yards. I will vote for the 357 mag. I have one for my wife and 12 year old son to use. So it is not advice without personal experience. Not just someone giving advice with calculations only.

Don Jackson Remington Magnum/Ultramag

[Uncle Ji]

For the 357 vs 44 argument I deffinately lean towards the 357 mag especially if you want to lop off the barrel which will reduce weight.  The 44 will kick considerably more than the 357 which is a pussy cat.  Your wife will enjoy the 357 but most likely fear the 44.  Yes I do own rifles chambered for both so I speak from experiance.  Also you can practice alot more with the 357 rifle using cheap 38 Special ammo which kicks about like a 22RF.   If you handload you can make up "cat sneeze" low vel loads using .360 round balls and Bullseye powder, perfect for quiet small game hunting, and CCI shot caps perfect for snakes.
It's not an NEF/H&R but my truck/boat gun is a (now discontinued) Rossi single shot .357 mag rifle in stainless steel including the receiver this receiver also being a .410 size so this rifle is 2 lbs lighter than the comperable Handi.  I've shot our wild goats here as far as 150 yards with open sights so this is very accurate and reliable firearm.  I'm considering shortening the barrel to 16.25 inches and adding the ATI composite stock set, not very pleasing to the eyes but very practical especially the telescoping butt stock ala CAR-15.   Same could be done to a Handi.  
http://www.atigunstocks.com/product-rossi.html
http://www.atigunstocks.com/product-HRNEF.html

[safetysheriff]

Just one more post...This business of shooting animals out to 150 yards with a .357. Energy-wise, a .30-30's maximum practical range on deer sized animals is 150 yards. All I ask is you look at a ballistics table and compare the energy of a .357 to a 30-30 at varying distances. With a good hot accurate round in an accurate rifle, I think the 357 would be a capable coyote round out to a hundred yards, and a competent deer round under 50 yards if presented with a broadside through-the-lungs shot, and you'd STILL have some tracking to do. I don't care WHAT round you get, but before you choose one, study the trajectory and energy charts and make an informed decision. The 357/38 is basically a toy in a rifle. .

i respect your post and the theory you believe is involved.  but experience tells me different.   anytime you are using a handgun cartridge the energy theory goes out the window.   the pertinent aspect of handgun hunting is bullet performance on the game.   energy is misleading with handgun bullets (jacketed for deer) that will expand at lower energy levels (read that:  lower velocities ) because of their modern-day design.   that's what would allow a 158  to 200 gr'  JHP bullet out of a Marlin rifle to kill deer -- with proper shot placement -- out to 150 yards.   want a REAL treat, that some of the guys hate?   shoot a  Large buck out to 150 yards or a little more, with a 55 or 60 gr' Hornady spire point out of a .223 Rem'  -- with decent shot placement -- and watch  how cleanly the harvest is made!   once again, it's the bullets design and not the energy tables that do the killing.   I've seen it done by landowners i know.    it's amazing.

speed kills, along with proper bullet construction and placement.  

in any event, all the best to ya'

ss'

[A.J.]

Want another treat? I'm a cop and wear a ballistic vest (you call it a "bullet-proof" vest) every day. Stick that "BIG" 357 MAGNUM muzzle up against a ballistic vest and pull the trigger and see what happens....It won't begin to penetrate it...Now back off a hundred yards and pop a little 223 at it...It'll zip right through...You "Big Game hunters" knock yourselves out with your big magnum. If you start getting too much meat damage with the 357 (blowing deer completely in half..etc...)you can always step down to 38 wadcutters.

[RemingtonMagnum]

I have run across one deer wearing a red collar. Must have been a tracking device but I don't remember in 50 years seeing a deer wearing a bullet proof vest. I be sure to shoot him with my Marlin 1894C 357 then after it knocks him down run over and cut his throat.

Even though it was legal for me to take the Radioactive doe I left her running in the woods. Sometimes there are more advantageous actions in the wild than my taking meat at any given moment.

Don Jackson Remington Magnum/Ultramag