Author Topic: 357 vs. 44 (Read 2509 times)

hellacatcher · « **Reply #30 on:** April 28, 2006, 11:21:35 AM »

I know I don't know a lot about it but I have taken deer with both the 44mag 260gr bullet and a 357 max 180 gr bullet both rifles. The one with the 44 was maybe 10 to 15 yrds and it staggerd aroud like a drunk sailor befor going down. The 3 with the 357 max where from a 100 yrds to at least 130 they hit the ground fast. I would feel comforable with eather.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #31 on:** April 28, 2006, 01:05:59 PM »

Quote from: A.J.

Want another treat? I'm a cop and wear a ballistic vest (you call it a "bullet-proof" vest) every day. Stick that "BIG" 357 MAGNUM muzzle up against a ballistic vest and pull the trigger and see what happens....It won't begin to penetrate it...Now back off a hundred yards and pop a little 223 at it...It'll zip right through...You "Big Game hunters" knock yourselves out with your big magnum. If you start getting too much meat damage with the 357 (blowing deer completely in half..etc...)you can always step down to 38 wadcutters.

"I" personally don't call 'em bulletproof vests. I call 'em a waste of money. If I want to hurt a bad guy in a 'vest' I'll hit him with hardcast lead out of a .44 mag' Ruger heavyily-loaded round.....and watch him fall and fold up. The .223 piercing a vest is no more news than a broadhead doing the same. My old Bear 6-wheel adjustable bow could do that.....with less energy and less velocity than a .30-30. That's why I'd rarely bother buying a vest for Any reason.

A 'search' of www.findarticles.com with J.D. Jones as the subject reveals a number of his articles. He does a decent job of explaining why jacketed bullets work better on deer than hardcast. I'll let his reputation and credentials continue that part of the debate.

Nobody on planet earth "blowing deer completely in half..etc..." can tell me that they are being honest. Sure, you can thoroughly waste a couple shoulders or a couple hams with a .270 Win' shooting 100 to 130 gr' bullets at 'em with high-enough velocity. But you don't hear me uttering anything about blowing deer in half.

For a canoe "rifle" I still suggest a Marlin in .357 mag'.

One quick question: will a hardcast Federal (I believe) 200 gr' bullet out of a .357 Mag' rifle break the ribs on a guy who's wearing a vest? I'd expect that it would. I've had one cracked rib from an auto accident. It became amazingly painful in short order. If you've never had a cracked rib then you don't know what you are missing. If pain is good, then extreme pain must be extremely good! A cracked rib does it all for me!
:shock: :shock:

ss'

knight0334 · « **Reply #32 on:** April 28, 2006, 01:35:02 PM »

With the mention of "vests", bullet construction would play a part in that. Yeah, I'm sure a vest would stop my 125gr JHP's @ 1950fps MV, but I also have some 125gr FMJ's @ same MV that will punch a nice hole clean through. ...done it, proven it at the range on a "retired" vest of the same protection level in use.

Bullet shape also plays a part, a pointed tip delivers energy to a smaller surface area. perfect example, take an unsharped pencil and stab your leg.. nothing.. now sharpen it and repeat the action(no need to actually stab yourself, I'm sure you'd know what would happen).

Mac11700 · « **Reply #33 on:** April 29, 2006, 04:32:19 AM »

Quote

Hey all,

I'm looking at purchasing a new handi for a "canoe" gun. My wife and I canoe quite frequently and are planning on doing some overnight trips. Would like to have a little back-up. Whats your opinions on the 357 vs 44. I'm thinking of a more survival/protection round. Capable of taking large (deer) and small game if necessary.Also thought about cutting barrel of either caliber, as to make it the most compact possible.[/i]
Thanks.

The wider metplat of the bullet is entangled in the Kevlar fibers because they seperate from their compacted form ..which is why a rifle bullet penatrates easier.Most folks needing additional protection usually wind up going with the ceramic inserts.In all my years I have never seen a deer with a kevlar vest on..

Both the 44 mag & the 357 mag are proven deer cartridges..the 44 is a better choice if your going to be around bears..because of the heavier bullets.

I've had floating rifle cases before in a canoe that got tumped..it's no fun having to retrieve things that aren't secured down..and having it in a floater isn't any garentee you'll find it if it gets hung up on a blow down that's submerged in the stream.Been there..done that..Having either a 44 or a 357 pistol secured in a ballistic holster on your person would eliminate this real possibility from happening..It may not give you the range of a rifle..but for convieniance sake it is hard to beat,and if properly trained shouldn't pose a problem in the taking of edible game or self protection.

Again..my choice would be a small holstered pistol.One in either caliber would be more benificial..since it's primary purpose is a back up and not for primary hunting purposes.Both are capable of dispatching the largest of deer and any advisary you might encounter if the need arises..and if bears are in your area...my choice would definatlty be the 44 mag..if no bears around..then the 357 would more than suffice..With 38 speacial cases...I've shot quite a few squirels with a 155 grain cast bullet and 3.5 grains of Unique...or a 125 grain jacketed with 4 grains of Unique..both will dispatch squirells and rabbits with ease with little meat lost and have always been very accurate out to about 50 yards..about 600fps with the cast..and about 500 with the jacketed..Both round were extreamly quite with little recoil..

Mac

MSP Ret · « **Reply #34 on:** April 29, 2006, 09:18:15 AM »

You guys crack me up!!!, and thanks, it's been a while since I have smiled and laughed this much!!!....<><.... :-D :-D :-D

A.J. · « **Reply #35 on:** April 29, 2006, 09:23:21 AM »

DITTO!!

cpj · « **Reply #36 on:** April 29, 2006, 11:34:59 AM »

You so called "experts" (all of you) really dont have a clue about what you are talking about! All this talk about the power it takes to kill a deer, you guys must get a grip! I guess you dont know that deer are now developing bullet PROOF vest's. Thats right, the deer are developing these. I have stumbled upon them at their secret meeting in the woods. They all ran away with their tails in the air, but one stayed out ar about 50 yards. He stayed to see if I had seen what they were working on. I finally ran him off, but I know that he was still out there watching me.

I found what they had been working on, it was a ceramic reinforced kevlar suit. It looked just like regular deer fur, so it will be easy for them to fool hunters. I found the blue prints for the suit, and it had notes on it saying that the only thing that could penetrate it was either a rocket propeled grenade, or a .50 BMG. So all of deer hunters better go get yourself a Barrett .50 cal, or you will be out of luck come this deer season. (RPG"S are hard to come by)

P.S. I know that the deer are after me, since I have uncovered the plot against us. Want proof? I had 3 of them jump in front of my truck on the way home from the woods. Sort of a suicide mission to protect their secret. But being the well prepared hunter that I am, I knew what their plan was, so I was going slow enough to avoid them.

:-D :-D :-D :-D

Dean van Praotl · « **Reply #37 on:** April 29, 2006, 12:09:26 PM »

Nomdic1, a handi is a great hunting and plinking gun, but IMO your criteria of "survival/protection" eliminate single shots. Get a revolver, in stainless steel. Keep it in a holster that you're wearing, then if your canoe tosses you out, your backup won't be on the bottom and you can shake the water out and keep going.

Cookiemann · « **Reply #38 on:** April 29, 2006, 05:04:49 PM »

I am more of a shotgun guy, but, considering the choices you asked about, I would go with the 357 w/Survivor stocks and maybe shorten the barrel to 16 1/2in. My choice for the same situation would be a straight 410 Tamer. Just my 2 cents, since you asked.
Cookiemann

safetysheriff · « **Reply #39 on:** April 29, 2006, 05:22:53 PM »

i really believe that Mac has brought up some good points re: the portability of a revolver. but with 'momma' along? i doubt you can find too many gals that can handle a .44 mag' properly. a lot of guys can't!

that's the same problem with serious hunting loads in a .357 revolver....i'd expect. i don't think the women can handle them properly in seriously-heavy, deer-rated 90 yard loads. i shoot Ruger revolvers...because of the Heavy handloads (original industry spec's) they can handle. my wife wouldn't care for them.

so, i still like the .357 repeater, in a rifle for 100+ range hunting.....and if going into bear country then momma and the daughters can all stay home. in the lower 48 States i'll take a .44 mag'; and a .454 Casull preferably if going into Alaska after bear.

but what has all that to do with our original canoe trip? we were talking about deer and small game, and protection against 'upright critters' i thought...

ss'

Mac11700 · « **Reply #40 on:** April 30, 2006, 05:57:39 AM »

SS:

I think you missed a valid point of mine..I said..

Quote

but for convieniance sake it is hard to beat,and if properly trained shouldn't pose a problem in the taking of edible game or self protection.

For the record...my Daughter when she was 9 years old could shoot any of my pistols..and those included a scoped 357 Colt Python..a Kimber Classic 45 ACP..and a Smith & Wesson 44 Mag..and a Ruger Blackhawk 44 mag...and she could shoot them proficiantly...granted..full house loads in the 44's weren't the easiest for her to shoot..but she could still shoot them..and with the tons of lighter loads she shot with each..she was a great shot..

As with any gun...be it handgun or rifle..or shotgun...it's all in the training

The main issue I see with this isn't wither the 357 or the 44 mag is capable of taking deer down...cause we all know they are..the issue as I see is portabilty..accessability..convieniance..and safety..for both the weapon and the person carrying it..

CPJ...don't worry about those dear wearing ceramic and kevlar vest..African tungston solids will dispatch them easily thru our Handi's

Mac

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #41 on:** April 30, 2006, 07:13:03 AM »

I think the wild hogs down here have been wearing those ceramic and kevlar vests for some time down here. Digger :-D :-D :-D

safetysheriff · « **Reply #42 on:** April 30, 2006, 09:02:32 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700

SS:

I think you missed a valid point of mine..I said..
Quote
but for convieniance sake it is hard to beat,and if properly trained shouldn't pose a problem in the taking of edible game or self protection.

For the record...my Daughter when she was 9 years old c

As with any gun...be it handgun or rifle..or shotgun...it's all in the training

Mac

hello, Mac'

i, too, have a couple daughters; of which one would probably be able to handle a .44 mag' ten minutes from now. i could probably teach both daughters to loosely hold onto the magnum with a bent elbow (as i do) and let the recoil roll, etc.etc.etc. but i wouldn't bet a nickel on my wife being able to do so. i wouldn't want my wife handling more than a .357 mag in a heavy-bodied Ruger, if even that. yet they all could handle the rifle in .357.

it was interesting to see how Madleine Kay in "Hunting for Handgunners" has done such excellent work with the .454 Casull. yeah, it's largely the training, but a lot has to do with a woman's own prejudice re: weapons.

i just see more limitations with most peoples' ability to handle a weapon safely, i guess. probably because of the problems i've seen so many veterans and long-time hunters have with weapons; and the problems i had before i adopted my present system of shooting heavily-loaded .44 mag's.

take care, Mac,

ss'

Mac11700 · « **Reply #43 on:** April 30, 2006, 06:45:58 PM »

SS:

They have to start with little steps and work up..that's the key with any gun.....Heck..I had her shooting my Blackhawk with full loads within a month and a half..Bisley style....and when she got hold of my Kimber...well let's just say it became her favorite..and in bowling pins games..she could put many a "trained veteran" to shame

I think your right though....it has to do with a womans disposition..My daughter grew up with many guns and bows available to her..so it was natural for her...her Mom was a different story..she was scared stiff of them and wouldn't participate at all.....

Mac

safetysheriff · « **Reply #44 on:** May 03, 2006, 02:04:25 PM »

Mac

my wife just doesn't take safety concepts seriously! handing her a firearm would be a contributing factor in the death of how many ? :shock: :shock: :shock: she, too, grew up without training around firearms and it seems to be too late. the daughters are much more inclined to adhere to safety-related precepts, however. i had one start with a .22LR at age 17, and the other one at 14. I wouldn't be afraid of them handling a weapon on a hunt or in self defense if they were given proper training and ammo'.

i hope all is well with you,

ss'