Author Topic: A rd's being the most that most can handle  (Read 1729 times)

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Offline slink

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A rd's being the most that most can handle
« on: April 22, 2006, 08:53:37 AM »
does not make it even nearly like the max effective rd that CAN be controled, by a highly skilled man. It's just the best that can be handled by the typical lame, who won't practice enough, that's all.

Now, with the right bullet, at the right speed, the 9mm or 38 can be made to be considerably more effective than the current factory offerings (like about twice as powerful-effective) with the same or less level of recoil. However, such solid copper bullets, at 2200+ fps, are AP, and lots of cops get shot with their own gun, or their partner's gun. So they dont want to carry AP ammo in their sidearms, much less want anyone else to have such handgun ammo.  So there's about zero demand for maximally effective handgun ammo, because that ammo is AP on Kevlar vests. Consequently, no large, or even small, commercial ammo maker is going to offer such loads for sale.  

Only the most committed fan of ccw will take the trouble to make such ammo for himself, so almost nobody is aware of its much greater potential (than standard ammo).  Such a man also won't restrict himself to a .38 or 9mm, so his research goes into what he can get out of a 357 Sig pocket auto, or out of a 10mm or. 45 Belt gun.  So there's very little work being done on maximising the effect of loads likely to be used by the "common man". That's why so many say that there's no difference in handgun loads.  They are right, about TYPICAL ammo, but they are quite wrong (and provably so) about the top loads that can be had.
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Offline predator_huntin

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A rd's being the most that most can handle
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2006, 11:17:10 AM »
i'm not sure what your trying to say...


are you telling me my S&W j frame or my Taurus 85 snubbie are now ineffective with the old "Chicago" load i carry in them, or the 125gr +P hydrashocks?  i think now...

now way you'll catch me (or any other CCW'er in there right mind) with armor piercing rounds in my CCW piece...or any other firearm of mine...

Offline RollTide

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A rd's being the most that most can handle
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2006, 07:12:00 PM »
Slink,
To the best of my knowledge,  making an AP handgun round is illegal, as is possessing or selling same.  Years ago there was a company that made a 25acp solid brass round at about 1200fps.  That little 25 round would defeat body armour and was discontinued when the law about AP handgun ammo went into effect.  Then they switched to a solid copper slug which seemed to be legal.  I believe Cor-Bon is making some solid copper projectiles aren't they?

Roll Tide

Offline S.S.

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A rd's being the most that most can handle
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2006, 03:37:54 AM »
Back in the mid 1980's several tons of steel core 9mm para
ammo got through customs. The Feds had a fit about it because it would
punch threat level III body armor. I talked to some Federal officers not too long ago about some of it that had come into my posession at a gun show and they said that if a magnet will stick to it then it is illegal for handguns. That 100 rounds was disposed of promptly. I can't spare the ten years from my life to stay in prison for doing something that stupid.
I have since heard that steel jacketed handgun rounds are not legal either.
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Offline chris s

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AP ammo
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2006, 02:57:38 AM »
What is the definition of armor piercing ammo? Alot of the commercially avaiable rifle ammo will defeat body armor that LE uses.

Offline Old Griz

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A rd's being the most that most can handle
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2006, 07:32:49 PM »
:cb2: Oooops . . . never mind.
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Offline Savage

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A rd's being the most that most can handle
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2006, 04:58:38 AM »
I don't know of any centerfire rifle rounds that will not penetrate Lvl lll body armor with a ball round. The same holds true for some pistol rounds like the 7.62X25. Body armor provides protection from most pistol rounds, some blunt tramma, and little else.
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Offline Robert357

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45 Long Colt
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2006, 07:14:51 PM »
I took a co-worker and his recently graduated from college daughter and her female room-mate along with their two boy friends shooting.  First we had a firearm safety session, followed by a how each of a series of single action revolvers, double action revolvers, and semi-auto's work.  Then we discussed range rules specific to this particular range.

I opened the gun safe and brought 22 LR Single Action & Semi-Autos; 32Auto Semi-Autos; 9 mm semi-auto's; 38 Special double Action, 357 Mag Single & Double Action, 45 (Long) Colt Single Action.

My co-workers daughter preferred the Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt single action!  She had never shot before and was in the black on most shots at 25 yards with the Ruger 45 Colt.  I only had her shoot SAMI standard pressure 45 Colt loads not the hot near 44 Mag handloads I sometimes use for the Ruger Blackhawk.

Most folks I know can handle a 45 LC in a single action.

Offline BillP

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AP rounds
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2006, 06:00:59 PM »
Back in the early 70s when I was a newly minted cop, It was not uncommon for officers to carry a few AP rounds either as the last rounds up in their gun or for reloads.  This practice was not as prevelent with city cops as it was with HP officers and others who delt mostly with motor vehicle stops.  Most who carried 357s felt they had adquate penetration but 38s did not do as well.  The thought was that after the first couple of shots they would probibly be shooting at someone in or behind a vehicle.  When speed loaders became available and the practice was to carry two on your belt, some officers loaded one with HPs and the other with APs.

Today very few officers carry anything other than the ammunition they are issued and the specter of overpenetration makes AP ammunition something available to special units only.

Offline Old Griz

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A rd's being the most that most can handle
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2006, 09:02:07 PM »
:cb2: Speaking of body armor . . .

Remember the bank robbery in L.A. several years ago where the two robbers had body armor about two feet thick? They were walking around shootin' folks, cops, anything that moved. No telling how many times they were hit, but like the Energizer Bunny, they just kept going, and going, and going. The L.A. police went and raided some sporting goods store and grabbed every AR15 they could get their hands on. I forgot how the first one was killed (head shot?), but the second was brought down by a smart cop who was flat on the deck, and shot him in the foot from underneath a car with a shotgun. This was about the only unprotected place to hit him. Then when robber #2 was on the ground the other officers rapidly moved in.

My question, why did they grab AR15s? I would have been looking for something a heck of a lot bigger than a .223! I'd want something in a .416, 300 mag, or at least a .45-70? At least make it hurt when it hits!

There was a lot of news coverage on this. Where do you can find this on the web?
Griz
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I Cor. 2.2 "For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."

Offline Old Griz

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A rd's being the most that most can handle
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2006, 09:57:47 PM »
:cb2: By the way, I found a report about the 02/28/97 blotched robbery at

www.emergency.com/lapdbank.htm

It mentions that the gun shop owner was giving them shotgun slugs, but I remember seeing on the news a bit later where he was selling the used AR15 the LAPD "borrowed" for the occasion. I'm sure they went at a premium price!
Griz
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I Cor. 2.2 "For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."

Offline Dusty Miller

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Re: A rd's being the most that most can handle
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2006, 08:55:46 AM »
Big dummy here...............Uh.............whut's an "rd"?
When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away!

Offline Dusty Miller

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Re: A rd's being the most that most can handle
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2006, 05:42:17 AM »
Anybody?
When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away!

Offline Robert357

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Re: A rd's being the most that most can handle
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2006, 04:58:25 AM »
When I responded I assumed that "rd's" mean the rounds or caliber of a handgun that was as powerful as most folks could handle with reasonable accuracy.  That is why I responded that a recently graduated from college lady and first time shooter enjoyed shooting my (Long) Colt 45 Single Action Ruger Blackhawk.

To find out the real meaning you might need to send a private message to the person who started this thread.

Good luck

Offline Dusty Miller

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Re: A rd's being the most that most can handle
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2006, 01:51:23 PM »
Oh.  :-[
When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away!