Author Topic: Witnessed at the range yesterday. Shocking! (Read 2753 times)

Questor · « **on:** April 24, 2006, 04:00:26 AM »

I just couldn't believe what I saw at the range yesterday. This is a private members-only range: Two guys were practiing some short range rapid fire drills for action shooting and one guy was shooting while the other guy was crawling around on the ground between the shooter and the target picking up brass! At first I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Then I introduced myself and gently expressed a concern about the safety aspects of what they were doing. I was basically told to mind my own business.

This really tops all bad things I've seen at the range because it wasn't a simple error of perception or gun handling. This was an error in judgement that I am at a loss to explain.

In hindsight I should have been firmer about this because if they get hurt then the range could suffer. I also wish I had had a camera.

jerkface11 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 24, 2006, 04:32:17 AM »

One day while I was at the range a group of horseback riders came riding across the top of the safety berm right behind the target stands :eek: We all stopped shooting and they paused directly in front of the firing line. Thru the spotting scope i could tell they were giving US a dirty look. About 5-10 minutes later they rode back the other way!!

corbanzo · « **Reply #2 on:** April 24, 2006, 06:06:20 AM »

We were out a couple of months ago, at a local rock pit, and my buddy had some city folks visiting from Chicago, who didn't really know much about guns. We went through the whole safety talk, but then about half way through the day, I'm lining up a shot, and hear from about 5' behind me, boom! the guy was about 5 feet to my right, and 5 feet back. I had been introduced, so I wasn't so nice. I told him, if there was ever a gun pointed in my general direction again, I would defend myself, but in words not quite so nice.

Patriot_1776 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 24, 2006, 08:16:08 AM »

Questor, that really bites. You expressed concern not only for the whacko who thinks brass is more important than safety, but also for the future use by everyone who uses the facilities, and you're told basically to stuff it. Some people just don't care for crap. :x :evil:

-Patriot

Dand · « **Reply #4 on:** April 25, 2006, 12:11:31 AM »

Once in the middle of a match shoot off, we were down to 2 guys shooting one at a time for the final prize. One contestant took a long time sighting, put down his rifle and says there's a guy out there messing around behind the targets! It was late in the day and light was falling. 3 guys went down range and found a guy checking fox traps!!!. The trapper insisted it was no big deal "keep on shootin', I survived Nam!".

We waited for him to get out of there. We all agreed maybe he really didn't survive Nam mentally. And we weren't about to finish him off.

We were shooting .22 LR at 100 yds offhand and this guy was about 50 -60 yards back of that, right close to our back stop.

I still shiver when I see that guy around town.

Jim 44-40 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 25, 2006, 12:29:04 PM »

Don't visit the range here in PA right before deer season opens.All the last minute,hurry up,get'er done folks are doing crazy things. Last year a kid was pointing a old 30WCF around all over the place! I told him that if the hammer was not at half cock it was'nt safe,like the newer ones with a real safety. His dad/uncle got a real nasty look on his face. So I got the hell out of there.

Skeeterbaymac · « **Reply #6 on:** April 25, 2006, 01:09:24 PM »

That's to bad that they got mad when it was brought to their attention. My son's are grown, but I will tell you what. If someone told me they were being unsafe with a gun. They wouldn't have a gun any longer and I would have told you, thank you for spotting it.

We have a local range and it's not bad. I never had a problem with safety issues when I went there. But I did get sick of waiting for folks to get done shooting to check targets. So I took the bulldozer/Hoe, and built a 200 yard rifle range at my camp. Now I got no wait and no hassles. It works out good for folks who are staying at the camp also. They can re-check zero before heading out hunting. Plus it's a good excuse for me to take off to camp for awhile. :grin:

Swamp Yankee · « **Reply #7 on:** April 25, 2006, 01:20:50 PM »

When it comes to gun saftey, I have no trouble putting people in their place. Straighten up or leave! There is no room for stupidity. When your dead you don't get a second chance!!! Jim

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** April 25, 2006, 01:29:42 PM »

Jim 44-40:

I know what you mean. I volunteer at our range during the deer sight-in, when it's open to the public. Some of the scariest ones are those that come carrying their gun in the box the gun was shipped in.

Win 73 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 29, 2006, 05:31:12 PM »

I was shooting pistols on the 25 yard range at an unsupervised public range. Another fellow and I were at one end of the range. A group of Mexicans (three men and three women) were at the other end. We all went down range to check and change targets. The Mexicans went back first. The other fellow and I finished putting up new targets and started to walk back to the shooting benches. While we were still down range, the Mexicans opened fire! I yelled and they only fired one shot. When I got back to the benches I told them in no uncertain terms that one more shot and I would have been shooting back. I don't know if they could understand my words because they had been talking only Spanish but I am sure they could tell I was not a happy camper.

I was mad enough to have done it. I also had the capability. I had my 9 mm Ruger P89 on my hip and a .38 snubbie in my pocket. One thing I never do when out shooting is shoot myself empty. I always have two guns loaded besides the one I am actually shooting. Sometimes even three or four.

dubber123 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 29, 2006, 08:20:06 PM »

I see it's not just Vermont that has range idiots. Most but unfortunately not all have been "city folks", that probably learned gun safety from some movie, probably the same movies that let them believe holding your handgun sideways is the best way to aim. Maybe all these fools will shoot each other off and we'll all be the better for it!

dave375hh · « **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2006, 03:07:39 AM »

These situations happen all the time, just about everywhere. I've seen stupid/dangerous stuff so many times I'm suspicious of anyone that I don't know at the range, and I watch them closely. Like the two guys with an open bottle of JD on the bench between them while they were shooting...... membership cancelled! I've asked some to leave, ordered some to leave, and once ripped up a guys membership card right in frount of him. The president wasen't too happy about my methods but did backup my, In Your Face, cancellation of membership.

There are three reasons people make these screwups. They don't know, they don't think, they don't care. learning to identify which one it is, quickly, is important. I never go into these situations unarmed or alone if possible. With the two hardcases with the Jack Daniel's I had three other guys with me. Otherwise I'd have just called the Twp Police to handle them(the PD are all members also). Having the local cops as members is a distinct advantage to any club.

ihuntbucks · « **Reply #12 on:** April 30, 2006, 06:22:17 PM »

Questor,sounds like you just meet "Dumb and Dumber" The one crawling would be "Dumber";but the other a very close 2nd.......Rick

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2006, 02:08:10 PM »

Quote from: Questor

I just couldn't believe what I saw at the range yesterday. This is a private members-only range: Two guys were practiing some short range rapid fire drills for action shooting and one guy was shooting while the other guy was crawling around on the ground between the shooter and the target picking up brass! At first I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Then I introduced myself and gently expressed a concern about the safety aspects of what they were doing. I was basically told to mind my own business.

That has got to be one of the dumbest stunts I have ever heard of...Especially at a private club with "experienced" shooters... :roll:

1marty · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2006, 02:36:25 PM »

I only shoot at a range which is heavily regulated and the range master will throw any member off who is being unsafe; call me a snitch but I have no problem in advising the range master of some dope who is acting in a unsafe manner; I was shot once in Nam and survived and don't feel at this stage in my life getting my brains blown out by some idiot.

papajohn428 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 06, 2006, 04:54:53 PM »

Having been a rangemaster at a couple different police departments, and seeing all the stupid stuff cops can do with guns, I thought I'd seen it all. Then I joined a private club, with a strict set of rules posted everywhere, and it's worse. If there's no rangemaster around, people think they can do whatever they want. Since I'm not a rangemaster, they don't think I'll say anything. WRONG. I've seen people shooting over the backstops, blasting beer cans ten feet in front of them, bouncing bullets all over creation. Our club range is surrounded by new housing developments, full of people who would just LOVE to see us get kicked out and shut down. They bitch about the noise, when they knew full well we have been there for forty years, and we are noisy. They chose to build there, but now they want us out. We have gone to extraordinary lengths to keep it safe, but there are always a few idiots who are willing to screw it up for the rest of us, for the sake of "having some fun."

I have a zero-tolerance policy for stupid, unsafe shooting practices. And though we have a no-holstered-guns policy, I always pack, discretely and concealed. On two occasions I've had guns deliberately pointed at me as a threat, and one guy wound up getting taken down at gunpoint, handcuffed, held for the police, and arrested for Unlawful Use Of A Weapon charges. He no longer has the right to own, possess, or even TOUCH a gun. And it's his own fault. Stupid is as stupid does! And these idiots WILL get lawful gun folks kicked off our own ranges. It's not a gray area with me, you're safe or you're not. We have to defend ourselves, and our ranges, or we don't deserve the right to shoot. Period.

Papajohn

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 07, 2006, 02:15:05 AM »

I would go to the club officials and let them know what happened. At our club there membership would be terminated. Also I don't have a problem confronting anyone being unsafe.

CyberSniper · « **Reply #17 on:** May 07, 2006, 06:39:24 PM »

PapaJohn:Makes me wonder how much some of those people are getting
paid by outside interests to "prove" the range is a danger and
needs to be shutdown.
"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me."

papajohn428 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 08, 2006, 06:46:32 AM »

CS, You may be paranoid, that's true. We should all be a LITTLE paranoid. But personally, I don't think these guys are smart enough to get paid off. They're just too stupid to understand the consequences of their actions.

Then agin, some folks are just downright sneaky. Several years ago, there was a group that wanted to shut down the Olin Pistol range in East Alton. Their efforts to close it legally failed, so they claimed that they had found fired slugs on a golf course BEHIND the range. The entire back, top and sides of the range were enclosed, and the bullets could never have gone in that direction, but Olin had to spent about a hundred grand to "Redo" the baffles, which were just fine.

Our enemies have an agenda, and will pull anything they can to close us down!

Papajohn

S.S. · « **Reply #19 on:** May 11, 2006, 05:05:03 AM »

At our local range he would have had a hard time crawling
with all of our shoes up his Butt !!! This sort of behavior simply would not have been tolerated. Idiots with guns are a scary mix.

papajohn428 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2006, 05:59:15 AM »

It wasn't like the bullets came from the Olin range, someone just took some fired slugs, dropped them on the golf course, then conveniently "Found" them. The judge tried not to let their stupid ploy work, but in the interest of "Public Safety," he had to do something. Remember, just like with legislation, it's not about what the bill or action does, what matters more is what it APPEARS to do. There have been lots of stupid things attached to good bills, and a responsible legislator would likely vote against a bad (junk-laden) bill, but who wants to have to defend his vote against a bill that is called something like, "The Omnibus Anti-Crime Law?" That's how most of this garbage gets passed!

Those that don't research what the bill entails, ALL of it, would never know the difference. Makes a line-item veto sound pretty good, doesn't it?

Papajohn

SAWgunner · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2006, 06:19:10 AM »

When I was stationed in Korea, we had a M249 SAW range that had a dip in the middle and a road going through it. Our target burms were about 100 meters on the other side of the Road. Well, the rangemaster and the MPs would lock the gates to the road when the red flag went up to indicate a hot range. It would never fail, we would be sending 5.56 down range with these High Velocity Crowd Pleasers, and Adashi would meander down the middle of the road. "CEASE FIRE! CEASE FIRE! CEASE FIRE!" I know that most of these people have served in the R.O.K Army or Marines or even as KATUSAs, so this never made any sense to me at all.

unspellable · « **Reply #22 on:** May 12, 2006, 07:50:17 AM »

It is always firearms. I was once squatting on my heels with an open tool box in front of me. Somebody tossed in two or three dynamite caps. You DON'T handle dynamite caps that way! I was not pleased.

loaded4bear · « **Reply #23 on:** May 13, 2006, 02:55:44 PM »

I too had a similar experience years ago at a local public range. This was a privately owned shooting range, opened to the public, where you could shoot for a fee. When you paid, the range staff issued you a target frame that you placed downrange @ the distance of your choice (25, 50 100 yards etc.). A "cease fire" would be called every 20 minutes or so, for the purpose of checking or setting out your targets.

Anyway, I was shooting with my dad & my brothers, when these two asian guys showed up. The rangemaster explained the rules to them, collected their fee, & issued the target frames to them. Now mind you, this was on a weekend, when there were 20-30 other shooters actively firing on the range. Well these two guys proceeded to nonchalantly stroll downrange while everyone else was still shooting!!! The rangemaster was blowing his whistle like a madman, but these guys continued out to set up their targets. After the emergency "cease fire" was called, these two got an "education" from the rangemaster before being sent on their way.

This particular range had a good safety record, and was well run with zero tollerance for such antics. Still think about those two guys from time to time when I'm shooting...wondering "what the %#@* were they thinking?"

GRIMJIM · « **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2006, 11:36:27 AM »

WOW, I LIKE ALL THE CITY FOLKS COMMENTS. I AM FROM THE CHICAGO AREA, AND I AND MY FRIENDS THAT I SHOOT AND HUNT WITH ARE MORE OFTEN A LOT MORE SAFE THAN THE DRUNKEN REDNECKS WE COME ACROSS IN CAMP. LOCATION IS NO EXCUSE FOR STUPIDITY! JUST BECAUSE I COME FROM THE CITY DOESN'T MEAN I DON'T HAVE THE COMMON SENSE TO HANDLE A FIREARM SAFELY.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #25 on:** May 15, 2006, 04:48:21 AM »

The real pity is the response you got! Everyone makes mistakes now and then, and my brothers and I make it a point to point out errors whenever we catch each other. It's just done matter-of-factly.

We can be standing around planning the days hunt, and it just happens with no more fan-fare than telling your buddy he's got some grape jelly on his chin.

"Watch your muzzle..."

"Oops. Thanks"

And that's just how it goes. No ill feelings. And it is that free ability to speak up that keeps safety on our minds.

dubber123 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 16, 2006, 10:57:17 AM »

GRIMJIM, I apologize for being one of the offenders with the "City Folks " comment. I shouldn't let my own personal experiences turn into a broad generalization of all city people, especially on a medium such as a forum where my comments may affect someone elses perception before they can draw their own conclusions. If you are ever in Vt. the first box of ammo is on me. Thanks.

GRIMJIM · « **Reply #27 on:** May 16, 2006, 02:33:30 PM »

MY APOLLOGIES AS WELL. :oops: WAS HAVING A BAD DAY TO BEGIN WITH AND I KIND OF LOST IT THERE. I WAS JUST TRYING TO SAY GENERALIZATIONS ARE ALMOST ALWAYS WRONG. ALL COUNTRY FOLK ARE NOT LAZY AND ILLITERATE, AND ALL CITY FOLK ARE NOT IGNORANT JERKS. ALTHOUGH I HAVE MET BOTH THAT WERE.

SAFETY, ESPECIALLY GUN SAFETY SHOULD BE EVERYONE'S JOB. IF I WERE DOING SOMETHING I SHOULDN'T I WOULD BE GLAD IF SOMEONE LET ME KNOW.

dubber123 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 16, 2006, 03:45:34 PM »

Grimjim, no apologies necessary for having a bad day, I have them almost daily myself! If it matters, my last boar hunt I went on consisted of a lodge with 4 "Poor-boy-hillbilles" myself included, and 20+ bonified "City Folks" straight out of NYC. The city boys turned out to be a pretty decent bunch that made the trip alot more fun, to the point that when we go again this year, I intend to try and book at the same time they do. You see no matter what comes out of my mouth, I know all city people aren't bad!

ck · « **Reply #29 on:** May 21, 2006, 06:37:53 AM »

Wow some real stupid people out there. The one time I remember something like this was at the Maplegrove gun range in Michigan. There was a lady mowing the grass on the skeet range while people were shooting. The crusty old rangemaster said dont worry shes used to it,she gets hit all the time! :shock: