New to Hand Loading, have many "newbie

[nasem]

I first posted this in the wrong form, here goes:

I would like to say, that Im very new to the idea of reloading, I shoot alot and, some of my bullets are costing me about $1.5 a pop, its getting very expensive (338 win mag and others).

I would like to start reloading, I know nothing about it. I don't know anything about presses, powerders, I don't know what a "die" is or anything in that matter, BUT I wanna learn how to do it,

Where Should I start ? Is there a manual for reloading. I would like to start reloading for 7.62X54R and 338 win mag

Any help regarding info / website links / websites that sells manuals and everything else

[Idaho_Hick]

I think you would be best served by purchasing a Speer reloading manual.  You could buy one from cabelas, my wal-mart carries them, or probably just about any sporting goods store.  They are currently selling the 13th edition, but if you find an older used one, grab it.  I have several manuals now, but my first one was a speer and I taught myself from their directions, which I think are very good.  Every reloading manual has instructions for reloading, but I feel Speer gives the best combination of usefull details and simple instruction, Nosler is overly simplistic, Sierra is very concerned with accuracy, lee is a trivia laden advertisement, whereas speer seems to be most concerned with 100% reliability.  After reading throug their directions a few times you will be able to come back here with some good questions.

[hunt127588]

Everyone is new to the game at some point or other. However, you can get up to speed in no time with some patience, safety and knowledge. With that said, I read for two months before I started. I also asked questions when I was unsure of something. Start by reading some good reloading books. Some of which I would recommend are:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=738288

and

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=823498

and

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=484416

[ricciardelli]

I'm not going to suggest you buy a book and read it 500 times!

I suggest that you visit your locally owned gunshop (not a pawn shop, but a real gun shop and reloading center) and speak with the man (or woman) behind the counter.

And after they show you what they have and what they suggest, BUY YOUR STUFF FROM THEM!

Sure, you can get it cheaper mail-order, but you cannot get the expert information from some stock clerk at one of the mail order houses.

And keep going back to that same gun shop for your supplies, until you start ordering bullets in the hundred-of-thousands and powder by the case lots.

The information and experience you receive from a real gun shop has no dollar value...and, eventually after you become a "regular" customer, the price difference between your local shop and the mail order houses will greatly shrink.

[qajaq59]

I agree..... Get several books and read then cover to cover. I like both Speer and Lyman.

And go slow with it at the beginnng. If you get stumped just stop and hop on here. Someone will try and help you. Or if you can find a store nearby that sells reloading equipment the owner might be able tio introduce you to a local hand loader. Most of us are more then happy to help someone get started.

The only thing I would say you should NOT do is take loading data from people such as myself that you really do not know. Get your loading data from one of the manuals only.

[astrix]

Have to go with Steve on this one.If you build a
relationship with a good shop,the price differences
will shrink significantly.It now costs me as much to
buy online with the heavy shipping charges.The
wealth of help and information from a knowlegable
shop is also very valuable.I also don't have to wait for
deliveries any more,I just go down and pick up what
I need.I feel lucky to have a good shop to deal
with,I understand some do not.

[Questor]

Buy the Speer #13 reloading manual. It gives step-by-step instructions.  There's really not much to reloading, you just need to follow the documented process.

For equipment, consider the Rockchucker kit from RCBS and add a RCBS hand priming tool.

[nasem]

Buy the Speer #13 reloading manual. It gives step-by-step instructions.  There's really not much to reloading, you just need to follow the documented process.

For equipment, consider the Rockchucker kit from RCBS and add a RCBS hand priming tool.

Im sorry, Im not entirly sure what a hand priming tool is, is that the thing you use to remove the old primer and install a new one ?

You guys have given me some good information, I never thought about how to get started with reloading, I will defenetly give a call to one of my fav gun dealers here in Michigan (I live in the detroit area, I don't know many gun dealers around, so I have to drive 40 miles to get to one)

Im planning on buying the Speer #13 manual along with the ABCs of handloading (both of these books seem to get good reviews)

[Questor]

A hand priming tool inserts the primers into the case. I've read ABC's of Reloading and didn't find it worthwhile. The Speer book will cover any other equipment questions you'll initially have.

The important thing when contemplating reloading is that it's expensive to get into and there's a period of amortization before you start to recover value from the investment. Figure about $500 to get started with good equipment. An alternative that some use is to go with the Lee Anniversary kit, but I don't recommend it if you're at all serious about reloading for the long-term. Regardless of whether it costs you $200 or $500 to get into, you'll want to figure the cost versus how much shooting you do. If it'll take you ten years of shooting to recover the investment, then it seems like a waste of time and money to get into.  Reloading only makes sense for people who shoot a lot or like it as an end in itself.  

I'm sure someone will post a reply about how they got into reloading for under $100. Ridiculous! The cost of components to make your first 100 cartridges for both those calibers will easily cost $100.

[nasem]

Im not about to reload for a caliber that comes in surplus (like .223, 7.62X54R, 30-06) and whatnot, those calibers I can easily obtain them from surplus ammunition websites.  I usually buy 440 rounds of 7.62X54R of 149-grain FMJ for about $50 to my front door (thats a hell of alot cheaper than reloading I think), even though it is corrosive ammo, just wash your gun with hot water and soap after every shooting secion and your good to go.

But Im more concerned about my 338 win mag and my 375 H&h, I usually go through 20-40 rounds of 338 a month (thats about $50 of factory ammo every month)......I was hoping to get some of my brass (oh god, I have so much saved up brass it will last me forever), spend about $200 for the equipment (whatever it is I need) and just reload my brass time and time , over and over.  I wanted to start with the 338 for a while and see how it goes.........  Would $200 cover it ?

[Jim n Iowa]

Nasem
Shooting and hunting are expensive interests. If the average hunter totaled up the TOTAL cost of even deer hunting, they could buy KOBE BEEF delivered to the door even or cheaper. When I bought my 338 a 20 rd box of ammo was $35 for 225g federals. This is the first time the price of ammo really got my attention. As a reloader I don't think about how much I am saving but rather the fun and interest in creating your own, to me its worth it. I did some fire lapping on a 338, using a safe but light load I was amazed by the amount of powder disappeared from a 1 LB can. The big boys are great to reload, and more forgiving but like cars the suv's are more hungry than Cooper's.
Jim

[davem270win]

I began reloading a long time ago (1972). No one I knew reloaded, but I was fascinated by the articles about reloading in places like Gun Digest and outdoor magazines. I ordered an RCBS "Reloader Special", which included most of the stuff I needed to start reloading, and included a small instruction manual. I first bought a Lyman manual, and from there was able to teach myself reloading.

Finding components was a real chore. If a local gun shop carried anything, they might have one brand of bullets in the most common calibers and weights, and much the same for primers and powder. They would only stock the stuff they knew they could sell. Fortunately, I did find one larger store that carried a pretty good selection of components. But much of my load development was based on what I could get, not what I really wanted to use.

Today, with forums like this, you can get help from anywhere - and with places like Midway or Midsouth, you can pretty much get your hands on anything made for reloading.

My experiences with the "Local Gunshop" and reloading advice have not been good. About ten years ago, I went to a well-known local store that someone recommended since I wanted a new press. Long story short, the "gunsmith" didn't have a clue and handed me a line of BS, and then charged me list price for a press that he had to order for me, which I think he felt was a lot of extra work on his part. I have a local guy I sometimes go to now, but he's so grumpy he wouldn't want to be bothered with a newbie.

Bottom line is you need to educate yourself by reading, and take any "advice" you get with a grain of salt. Be very careful - read all the safety warnings in whatever book you buy. Work up your loads carefully, and heed things like component changes or the maximum recommended loads, even if someone tells you they get great performance with a load thats 5 grains over the maximum in any manual. Once you have some experience, you'll get a better sense of what's safe and what isn't.

Good Luck!

[Travis Shuck]

http://www.reload-nrma.com/NRAinstruc.html

Try this web site perhaps you could find some one in your area who is a certified reloading instructor.

Good luck

[qajaq59]

If there is a certfied instructor near you, as Travis Shuck suggested, that would really be the way to go. It would likely save you some money and you'd learn more faster.

[Robert357]

(1) Take the NRA reloading course.  I did.  It was helpful, especially after I have read a couple of manuals and before I purchased a lot of my gear.

(2) You have chosen two bolt action rifle cartridges.  That is a very good good way to start.  An even better start would be a straight walled revolver cartridge, but what you have chosen is basically OK.

I reload both 7.62x54R (MN 1891/30) and .338 Win Mag (Win Mod 70).  I would start with the 7.62x54R first.  It headspaces on the Rim.  That is really a nice thing when you start out.  After you have mastered the basics, then you can are ready for the .338 Win Mag.  The problem with the .338 Win Mag is that it theoretically headspaces on the magnum belt.  Practically speaking, it headspaces on the shoulder.  This means that you need to be much more precise in your full length resizing.  That means hold off a while.  Alternately, you could get into necksizing, which bolt actions can handle and that will make your brass last longer and it will reduce some of the issues on bumping the shoulder back.

(3) get some case guages so you can check to see that the resized cases are of the right length and will fit your chamber (if you full length resize)

(4) You really need multiple reloading manuals and books.  I have several.  I have a Hodgdon Annual Magazine, a Lyman manual, two Lyman cast bullet, a Lee manual, a Hornday two volume manual, a couple of powder brand load books, and a bunch of books on reloading.

[nasem]

Im trying to get a hold of one of them reloading instructors, but that webpage seems a little old and those numbers are no longer valid.  Once I get a hold of one of them, Im gonna ask and see what I can do with him.....  What Kind of pricing am I going to look at for the training ?

[qajaq59]

Nasem, try this page. It has a quite a bit of info, including the NEW instructor list. http://www.reload-nrma.com/ I didn't go thru too much of it but it looked helpful.

[nasem]

Question:
what is the difference between these 2:
RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme Press (price about $110)
RCBS Partner Single Stage Press  (price about $60)

[Travis Shuck]

The Rock Chucker supreme is a heavier press you definitely want to go with that one for your 338 and 375.

[nasem]

there seems to be 2 types of brass:
Regular brass & Nickel brass....... Which one is better.  Seems like the nickle is more expensive.

Im going to start learning how to reload for my bushmaster 223.  I belive the diameter is .224 of the bullet is that correct ?  And also, How many times can you actually reload your brass ?  Some people say for small calibers like the 223 rem, you can reload a single brass up to 10-12 times.

[Robert357]

Im going to start learning how to reload for my bushmaster 223.  

I would hold off on reloading for your bushmaster for quite a while.  Reloading for a semiauto has some challenges that a beginner might want to avoid.

For a semiauto you have a much narrower tolerance range of powder/bullet weight than for a bolt action.  If your powder burns too slow, you might not properly cycle the action.  Each cartridge/bullet/powder combination has a specific pressure curve.  Only a limited range will work the action reliably.

To further complicate things, a crimp is important to the reliable functioning of a semiauto.

To have a reliable semiauto operation you have to do far more things right all the time on your reloading.  If you are very careful and don't mind throwing away or pulling a fair number of bullets or don't mind hand cycling your bushmaster, then go for it.  Otherwise learn the basic techniques on your bolt actions and when you feel you have mastered the skills move to the semiauto.

Good luck

[nasem]

Ok, I'll take that advice, I have also been reading that semi-autos can be a little dangerous to reload for (esspecially if you don't sit the primer right and the bolt smacks into it as it trys to pick up a round to chamber it)

I will start with my 30-06 I guess, I have alot of "one time shot brass" that I would like to utalize.  How many times would you recommend shooting the same brass ?

[SAWgunner]

That really depends a alot of things.  My 30-06 brass usually last 5-6 reloadings before I anneal the necks.  That is the process of taking a torch and heating the neck of the brass to make it pliable again.  I only do this to plinking ammo, because I, myself, do not fully trust the method and it is alot easier to end a day at the range than it is a hunt because fo ammo problems.  Honestly, only you can be the judge of that.  I am very picky when it come to target/hunting brass.  I weigh them all and ream the primer pockets so they are perfect.  You have to visually check for split cases, deformed brass, etc. to come up with a reliable answer to how long brass lasts.  For instance, I cannot reload brass shot out of my H&K 91 because of the fluted chamber.  Similarly, I cannot reload some of the brass from my Bushmaster M4 because of the way it hits the brass deflector.

When it comes to nickel and brass, nickel does not last as long reloading.  I have found that after only a few reloadings, the nickel plating starts to flake off.....but, you can still reload it (Not after the nickel flakes off, of course).  The reason manufacturers nickel plate them in the first place is because they feed smoother because of the nickel.  I do have some Coated Barnes X Bullets that I have reloaded in Winchester Nickel brass that look great, but act the same as the same load in a brass case.

There are many, many variables in reloading.  I found it easier to learn from someone showing me than reading.  Like you have staed above, there are just some things you have no idea what they are and do, so reding about them dosen't help a whole lot.

When you buy equipment, I highly, highly suggest the RCBS Rockchucker Supreme reloding kit.  Mine even came with a hand priming tool and a priming arm for the press.  The press is cast iron, and you will never wear it out or hurt it.  I think I found mine for $380 at Wal-Mart about 3-4 years ago.  After that, you will need dies, bullets, powder, brass (used or virgin), a case trimmer, a micrometer, and that will get you started.  After that a brass tumbler is helpful.  Oh yeah, and manuals for any brand of bullets you buy to reload.  Barnes is the most expensive I own at $32, The Hornady is a two volume set and is a great guide, and Nosler was pretty cheap, etc., etc.  Bullets range from anywhere at about $13 for 100 Hornady V-Max .224" to about $30 for 50 Barnes Triple shocks/X-bullets.  Nosler Ballistic tips are fairly cheap.  Powder is about $18 a pound for IMR 4064, and it will reload a couple of hundred of my .220 swift cases.  primers are really cheap.  Anyway, hope that helps.


SAWgunner

[nasem]

I did settle on the RCBS supreme.  I was going to buy a used one, and used hand priming tool, used 505 scale, and try to keep the cost of material to around $200.  Everything I was going to get was going to be RCBS.

What Kind of primers do you guys use for 30-06 ?  "large primers" ? military primers (m-34) ? or what type is good.

thanks

[qajaq59]

I use CCI 200 large rifle primers, but check your loading manual anyway so you will be sure that is the right size for exactly what you are intending to load.

[nasem]

I noticed that the RCBS RC supreme kit does not have a case trimmer..... is that a must have item for a new reloader ?  I'll be mostly reloading 30-06, then shifting to .223

[james]

You can usally get a couple of loadings before the case stretches and you have to trim it.  When you have resized the brass and the bolt won't close on the case, it is probably too long and needs trimming.   You will eventually need a mic (micrometer) to measure the case and overall length.  Lee makes some individual caliber hand trimmers or you can get one from RCBS with a hand crank or motor. I started out cheap and gradually worked into the more expensive equipment.    I use an electric screwdriver on the hand crand model because I'm cheap.
james

[CyberSniper]

Im not about to reload for a caliber that comes in surplus (like .223, 7.62X54R, 30-06) and whatnot, those calibers I can easily obtain them from surplus ammunition websites.

I'll be mostly reloading 30-06, then shifting to .223

Ummm.....Not to nitpick, but what's with the .223 flip flop ?
As for a case trimmer, I'd suggest you get one also.
The brass will need trimming after a few firings at best, maybe
even sooner.

[CyberSniper]

Whoops !
Loading .30-06 also I see....is the .30-06 in question a bolt action ?
Pick a single cartridge to start with, and learn how to load
that first. Don't spread yourself too thin here too fast.

[Cheesehead]

nasem

You are lucky to have so much good advice just a mouse click away.  Not only from GBO but the entire internet for info and components. I started reloading in 1990 when I started shooting bullseye center fire competition with the 1911/45acp. I bought quantities of loaded 45acp ammo and generated a lot of once fired brass, similar to your situation. I made things very difficult for myself buy starting out with a new Dillion 550 progressive press. This was very complicated for me being a "newbe"at the time. I started with the 45acp and then the 7mm Remington magnum, loading them progressively. I did not get the accuracy I was looking for in the 7mm. So I slowed down and loaded the 7mm single stage on the 550 progressive loader. I spent a lot of time on brass preparation, trimming, deburring primer pocket uniforming, flash hole deburring and inspecting every case and weighing each powder charge. My point is to start out with single stage equipment and maybe some day move to a progressive loader and be able to stamp out 400 rounds an hour. I do not know if reloading has saved me a lot of money but I now go to the range with a 5 gallon pail of ammo instead of a box or two.

Good luck and have fun.

Cheese