Going To Give The 338/378 A Try

[Sourdough]

Got a new Weatherby Accumark in 338/378.  Want to try and get better range than my 30-06 and 338 Win Mag.  Right now 600 yards is my maximum range for a sure kill.  While I can hit beyond that range with the 30-06, the energy just isn't there.  The 06 is great for wolves and cayotes, but not for anything bigger.  With the .338 Win Mag velocity has dropped off where bullet expansion is not always reliable.  Hence the 338/378.  I'm not going to be able to use it for bear season this spring, not enough time to become familuer with it's capabilities and trajectory.  But I should be comfortable with it by August for Sheep and Caribou.

[Lone Star]

Several years ago I was at the Anchorage range in early August pursuing one of my favorite pastimes - watching the once-a-year goofballs getting ready for hunting season.  You see some of the sillyest stuff at a busy big public range!  Anyway, a guy walks up to the bench next to me dressed up like an African PH - bush shorts, hat with zebra band, safari boots, the works.  I know what this usually means, so I got ready for the show.  He set up his target at 100 yards and proceeded to uncase his rifle - a brand new Accumark in .338-378 with a huge Swarovski scope.  'Man, this is going to be fun!' I thought to myself....

He loaded up and sitting at the bench - holding the rifle up in the air with his elbows up too - and fired off three quick shots; the muzzle blast from that factory brake was brutal!   Giggling to myself I inconspicously shifted my spotting scope over to view his target - 'did he even hit the target backing?' I wondered?  I was shocked - the three shots were within 2" of each other!  That guy could shoot!

[Thebear_78]

You just can't beat the big 338s for long range hunting.  I have a 338 RUM and am very impressed with its abilities.  My buddy had that same rifle for a few years, made a great long range carabou rifle.

[Sourdough]

Took the 338-378 Weatherby to the range this morning, fired ten rounds.  Recoil with the brake was somewhere between a .243 and a .308.  I was surprised at how light recoil was.  Started at 97 gr of powder and went to 101gr of IMR 7828.  No high pressure signs at the maximum loading.  Shot a Nosler 250gr Partition bullet, using a gun rest.  At 100 yards nine of the holes were touching one another.  I pulled one shot, one inch to the left, by jerking the trigger.  (I gotta quite shooting skeet, messes up my trigger pull).  (Ha! I gotta blame it on something).  Going out later in the week to work on out to 200 and 300 yards.  Goal for this summer is a consistant hit on a 9" pie plate at 800 yards.

[killdeer]

Did you set up the chrony?
Am thinking you will reach your goal sooner rather than later.
That sounds like a mighty nice weatherby Sourdough.

[Sourdough]

Settled on 100gr of IMR 7828, one grain below max.  At three hundred yards My group was 2 1/2 inches shooting off a rest.  Unfortunately the range at Fairbanks is only 337 yards long.  And it is breakup now so I cannot go out onto the riverbed where I have shot at longer ranges all winter.  Working on trying to get onto the army range at Ft WW.  It's a long drive to Ft Greeley just to shoot at 1000 yards.  According to the Nosler Manual my velocity should be over 3000fps with a 250gr Nosler partition.  Will have to take the Chrony to the range next time.

[LeadPoison]

I went elk hunting this past year with a friend who shoots this caliber. He rolled a 500 pound cow elk off the mountain side at 550 yards. The whole off side shoulder was ruined. He was using the 250 grain Partitions. Recoil as you stated with the muzzle break wasn't bad. Muzzle blast was at ludicrous levels though. Ear protection a must.

It's a helluva round that on paper should be good to 800-900 yards if you really do your homework and range work.

[BUSTER51]

I have an Accumark in 338-378 and to me it kicks like a 300 win mag not bad at all ,must be the brake .it is loud as hell . I have a IOR 4x12 with a 1 inch tube mounted with Tally base and rings this rig will shoot inch and ahalf groups at 200 yards with factory Weatherby ammo .The trigger is superb. the ammo is very pricey to say the least . the only 338 that can beat it is the 338 laupa (spelling) ,some day I'm going to have one built on a Dakota action if I live long enough . 33 cal's are such a great long range hunting round you just gotta try one to be a beliver. :-D

[BUSTER51]

I have an Accumark in 338-378 and to me it kicks like a 300 win mag not bad at all ,must be the brake .it is loud as hell . I have a IOR 4x12 with a 1 inch tube mounted with Tally base and rings this rig will shoot inch and ahalf groups at 200 yards with factory Weatherby ammo .shot a nice elk cow at 415 lazered yards across a canyon droped where I shot her .had a hell of a time winching her off that ridge .The trigger is superb. the ammo is very pricey to say the least . the only 338 that can beat it is the 338 laupa (spelling) ,some day I'm going to have one built on a Dakota action if I live long enough . 33 cal's are such a great long range hunting round you just gotta try one to be a beliver. :-D

[jro45]

I own the 338 RUM and have shot it to 400 yds with a nice group of 4.5".
The most power I load in it is 95.5 MAX thats for the 250gr bullets. Now the 225's I can load to 3225 fps. Thats fast enought for me.

[Sourdough]

Buster51:  Recheck your ballistics.  You'll find that the 338-378 beats the .338Lapua, not by much but it is out front.  Then comes the .338RUM.

[Demonical]

Sourdough I am sure you are a wonderful shot and the rifle is as accurate as you claim.

But what the hell does extreme long range shooting have to do with hunting!?



There is no way when you line up on an animal that is 800 yards away that you can be prepared when the thing takes a step or maybe the wind gusts and things change. Suddenly the shot is not in the critical vital zone and the animal may require a finishing shot but it escapes before you can administer that.

If you were actually hunting and were in the normal 50-100 yard distance then you are much more certain to #1 hit the animal in the right spot and #2 if the animal did need a finishing shot (or 2) then again it is much more certain that you will be able to do that cleanly.



Hey I watched a video of some clowns that were shooting animals at extreme yardage. They shot antelope, elk, mule deer, coyotes etc... at distances from 450 yards all the way to 1,100 yards. Of course the video only showed their kills and left out the misses...

Just do not confuse this activity with hunting!!  :roll:

[nasem]

Took the 338-378 Weatherby to the range this morning, fired ten rounds.  Recoil with the brake was somewhere between a .243 and a .308.

Why Im sure thats true, take off the break and you'll come back here cussing my life out for the suggestion lol.....  I shot 30-378 without the damn break and it was the worst thing I was ever talked into doing, ever since that day, I decided to stay away FROM ALL weatherbys.

Sourdough I am sure you are a wonderful shot and the rifle is as accurate as you claim.

But what the hell does extreme long range shooting have to do with hunting!?

I have never shot anything at such ranges, I think the posibility of you missing the shoulder and hitting the gut is very very very likly and that poor animal should not suffer  .... there for, Im going to agree with Demonical

[killdeer]

If I recall correctly, Sourdough is hunting wolves at long range.
Not that he need justify or comply with YOUR definition of hunting.


Leave it be.............

[IOWA DON]

I shot a 275 yard moose with my .338/.378 in year 2000. It was an Accumark Weatherby but was inaccurate. Since then I had it bebarreled with a heavier Shilen 28-inch barrel and now it is accurate. I shot several deer with it at over 400 yards. last winter. It really knocked over some, but one hit thru the lungs a t 475 yards ran over 200 yards before falling over. And two at less than 250 yaards ran a while before going down! I really can't imagine there is anything better for long range hunting, but even it did not drop everything instantly in its tracks with good bullet placement. Also, if you really want your shoulder beat up, this is the caliber to do it! (The light factory barrel with the muzzle break kicked a lot less then the heavier barrel without a muzzle break.) I will probably use it for my long range gun for a long time, versus my 7mm STW, but long range hunting is not as certain as 50 yard shots.

[Demonical]

Elmer Keith said it best, "I like to do my hunting before I squeeze the trigger".

Meaning he emphasized getting as close as possible before shooting, although of course Elmer claimed to have shot big game at amazing distances many times.


killdeer I always attempt to get as close to the animal as possible but I also practice in the event that a "long" shot is presented. In my definition that is 300 yards.

FYI I have shot a bull moose at a measured 280 yards a mule deer ar 220 yards and a whitetail buck at 320 yards but in each of those situations there was no possibility to get closer and the fact is I hit each of those animals in the center of the lungs and killed them quickly, the moose I hit twice, both perfect shots.

In the video I referred to the guys doing this long range shooting were deliberately seeking opportunities to shoot at the greatest distance possible. Instead of attempting to get closer, they were disappointed if a shot was 450 yards, they wanted 750 yards!

My opinion is shooting at those ranges is great sport when done against other men shooting at paper targets or on steel rams. But on live game I just do not agree.

You justify the long range shooting because it is wolves? What does that mean? There is less concern or compassion for them because they are varmints?

I am not against hunting wolves but IMHO the right way to do it, as with any other big game animal is to do it as humanely as possible. Call the buggers on a winters day in Jan-Feb. They are extremely territorial and will come into the call. Shoot lots, they are hell on the moose herd around here...

In 2005 I shot a black bear at 40 yards, a bull moose at 195 yards and a whitetail buck at 200 yards. My rifles were .45-70 for the bear, .338WM on the moose and then a .270Win on the deer.



But I disagree with the long range "hunting" fraternity with lazer range finders, tactical scopes and these ultra-magnum long distance cannons.


A wise man once told me "Opinions are like A**Holes, everybody has one..."


But I feel the need to express mine anyway.

[Sourdough]

In fortyfive years of hunting I have only lost one animal, a Moose shot at 40 yards.  So getting close does not mean anything to me.  Also what is close?  100, 200 yards?  All my guns are sighted in for 300 yards.  A 400 or 500 yard shot is a peice of cake.  As for the animal turning, or a gust of wind coming along, that can happen at 100 yards as well as 400.  But, first off I'm not hunting Moose, or Bears at long ranges (500 to 1000 yards) I'm hunting wolves.  Try getting close to a pack of wolves in the mountains above treeline.   At the first call they scatter and run, so getting closer is not an option.  I do also hunt Caribou at long ranges.  My longest shot so far has been at 700 yards, one shot right through the lungs with a 30-06.  This Caribou dropped in his tracks.  As long as I can continue to make clean one shot kills, I do not see range as a limiting factor.  And I won't be hunting Caribou until I have proven myself compatant, "to me" with this new gun.  Compatant is hitting a 4" clay target everytime at that range.  

Yes I do use a lazer range finder, I'm pretty good at estimating range but why leave it to chance when I can be exact.  I also have a Light Force 3.5X15X50 scope for this Weatherby.  Nothing is left to chance.  I'll post a picture when I get the scope mounted.

As for the brake, I'll never shoot this Weatherby without it.  My Remington 600 in .350Rem Mag cured me of that.  I'm not into pain.

[Demonical]

In my hunting career the longest shot I have ever attempted is 320 yards on a whitetail buck and I killed it with one shot. That was with my .338WM and a 250gr Nosler Partition. I was looking for moose at the time and this decent sized buck appeared.

Sourdough it sounds like you are shooting at extreme range because that is what is offered. I am not familiar with the terrain where you hunt these caribou and wolves. Sounds like it is pretty wide open country though.

If you can hit a 4" target regularly at 700 yards then you are a helluva shot.

I guess if you practice this regularly and can execute the shots, who am I to judge? I have said my piece and now I'll get off my soap box.


Later... Jim.

[Don Fischer]

Tried to get it in here but couldn't get it done. Photo of a Grey Wolf I shot last week in the Cassiar in British Columbia. Shot it with a Nikon D70 and a 300mm lense. Range, don't know as I don't have a lazer range finder but would guess it to be about 30yds!

Demonical, your wasting your breath. I agree with you 100%.

[nasem]

so, your going to shoot a wolf at what.... 800-1000 yards then what..... walk all the way there to pick it up or leave it there to be ?

whats the plan here, just grabbing a shooting bench, looking in all directions, and waiting for an animal to stop by ?  This sounds like a lot of time waisting....I never done this, but I don't think its "joyful".

I would hate to shoot at ANYTHING past 300 yards, we are talkin about bullets here, these things can stretch for miles, I wouldn't want it to go somewhere and maybe cause harm to a human being.  At a 1000 yards, man you better hope there is not a single human within 10 miles from you in any direction.  People like you make me hate going onto a mountain hunt..... at over 1000 yards, you can easily confuse me for a varmint (hehe Im your friendly 200 lbs Woodchuck).

[Sourdough]

nasem:  With wolf pelts going for $250.00 to $400.00 each they don't get left in the field.  In the Alaska Range where I hunt there is no one in 15 to 20 miles.  Nearest road is 40 to 60 miles.  We ride around on snow machines in the winter.  In summer we ride to the area either in a plane or on a 4-wheeler.  Then we walk the trails above tree line.  We do a lot of glassing, looking into valleys, and on mountain sides.  Quite often when we see them they have already seen us and are on the move.  No chance to get closer, take your shot when it's offered or pass it up.  I pass up a lot because there is something I don't like.  Too much wind, differance in elevation, target never stops moving, or this old man is just winded.  If I don't feel 100% sure of the shot, I pass.  And I mean 100%.  

I also have done everything possiable to prevent any veriables.  I use powders that are designed to matain even pressure at differant tempatures.  I use a Leopold lazer range finder that also gives differances in elevation between target and shooter.  A scope that gives clear images of the target at longer ranges.  I'm pushing a 250gr bullet at over 3000fps.  I use a bullet (250gr Nosler Partition) that will punch a hole completely through the target at any range.  And a rifle that has enough velocity and energy to do the job.

I also saw the video "Beyond Belief" where they are shooting cayotes at 1100, 1700, even 2400 yards.  But they were not making one shot kills.  Notice that many of the cayotes are jumping around for several seconds after being shot.  That is not my idea of clean kills.  When I start doing that I will quite.  


When I can hit my target more efficiently at 600 or 800 yards than the average shooter can at 150 yards, I don't have a moral problem with what I do.  As I said before I have never had an animal lost at long ranges.  I have only needed a second shot once, and that was to stop an already wounded animal that had been gut shot at 40 yards by someone else.

[nasem]

Sourdough ~

sounds like you got it all planned out  
I guess it takes alot of patience to do what your trying to do, and I respect that, some might not call it "hunting", but it defenetly takes alot of will not to take a shot unless you "think" your 100% right on the money.

It also sounds to me like money is no issue to you .  How come you didn't get a 50 BMG for such hunt, oh I forgot, you want a wolf courpse without being blown to pieces lol

Is there anything that is flatter than a 338-378 (in the 338 class) ?  There is that wildcat, umm, 338-416 (I think its based on the 416 rigby case),,,,Isn't that a bit more powerful ?

[Don Fischer]

If I recall correctly, Sourdough is hunting wolves at long range.
Not that he need justify or comply with YOUR definition of hunting

I'm afraid your wrong Killdeer. If you look thru "Custom Rifles" you'll find that this cartridge was brought up by Sourdough and his stated intention was shooting Caribou out to 8ooyds. Just to keep the record straight!

As for the price of wolf pelts, at Toad River, B.C. tanned wolf pelts have a price tag on them of $600. How many are sold for that is another story. That price is as of the 20th of May this year.

Nobody need conform to my defination of hunting but it would be nice if someone could tell us where hunting ends and pure shooting begins.

Near as I can tell, the Wolf and the Caribou have two things in common. They are both generally hunted for SPORT and they both BLEED. Paper is also shot for sport but it DOESN'T bleed!

[nomosendero]

Blood is Bio-degradable.

[killdeer]

If I recall correctly, Sourdough is hunting wolves at long range.
Not that he need justify or comply with YOUR definition of hunting

I'm afraid your wrong Killdeer. If you look thru "Custom Rifles" you'll find that this cartridge was brought up by Sourdough and his stated intention was shooting Caribou out to 8ooyds. Just to keep the record straight!

Gentleman, I'm not going to quibble over this.
The post mentioned is not the only post discussing the intended use of the rifle.
 We all have our limitations and likely have a better grasp of what they are than some anonymous internet poster.
 I understand emotions can run high on this subject, discuss away if you must, but lets not tell someone with a lifetime of hunting and shooting experience they are dangerous, not hunting, and unethical, just because we don't agree with the legal method they are utilising.
  Elmer Keith didn't enjoy the benefit of todays powders, bullets, ballistics computers, laser rangefinders, metallurgy or optics we have today. Guess if he were here now, he might even take a long poke every once in a while himself.

[Mac11700]

If I recall correctly, Sourdough is hunting wolves at long range.
Not that he need justify or comply with YOUR definition of hunting

I'm afraid your wrong Killdeer. If you look thru "Custom Rifles" you'll find that this cartridge was brought up by Sourdough and his stated intention was shooting Caribou out to 8ooyds. Just to keep the record straight!

Gentleman, I'm not going to quibble over this.
The post mentioned is not the only post discussing the intended use of the rifle.
 We all have our limitations and likely have a better grasp of what they are than some anonymous internet poster.
 I understand emotions can run high on this subject, discuss away if you must, but lets not tell someone with a lifetime of hunting and shooting experience they are dangerous, not hunting, and unethical, just because we don't agree with the legal method they are utilising.
  Elmer Keith didn't enjoy the benefit of todays powders, bullets, ballistics computers, laser rangefinders, metallurgy or optics we have today. Guess if he were here now, he might even take a long poke every once in a while himself

Well said :agree:

Mac

[Sourdough]

Gentlemen:  I also hunt with a muzzleloader, and with a bow.  I've taken Whitetail, Mule Deer, Black Bear, and Caribou with a Bow, and with a 30-30 Contender pistol.  I've taken Moose with a 50 cal Hawken.  So I can relate to someone saying get closer.  I used to feel that way myself.  But as the years progressed, as my abilities, but mostly technologies improved.  I have changed my attitudes.  As a younger man I did not have the finances to afford the high tech equipment I am currently using.  Some retirees spend their money on restoring old cars, it brings back fond memories.  Others tour the world, been there done that.  Me, I spend my mony on guns and shooting equipment.  I'm lucky I have a wife that supports me on that.  I enjoy hunting and shooting.  My wife works, my teenage son goes to high school, so I am home alone.  Shooting and Hunting has become my full time hobby.  I'm lucky to live in hunting paradise.  I've outgrown my 30-06, and .338 Win Mag, it's time to move on.   Everything I do is to better my hunting oppertunities.  I learned to fly just so I could get into areas others could not get to.  I got a motorcycle for the same reason.  Now I'm looking at a hovercraft, just to get into areas that I can't get the plane into.  And areas that the airboaters can't reach.

Someone made a comment about the .50 BMG.  I know people that do that.  It's just not my thing.  Again, I'm 100% comfortable with the shot, or I pass it up.  

We all have our attitudes, abilities, and limitations.  This makes up our comfort zone.  We all need to live within our comfort zone, but realise that others have differant zones.  We should not begrudge others just because their zones are differant than ours.  I don't hunt Brown Bears with a bow, I know my limitations there.  But if you are the kind a archer to hunt Brownies with a bow, go for it.  I'll use a gun.

[Demonical]

Sourdough I like that you admit watching that extreme range shooting video Beyond Belief and did not agree with all of it.


Post some pictures of your long range wolf/caribou kills later on this fall okay?

[Demonical]

I freely admit a bias against all Hyper Velocity calibers; RUMs, Lapuas, Weatherbys and various wildcats. I just gotta add that point, in case it is not obvious...


So back-tracking a bit, when I read Sourdoughs post about the .338-378 and the intent to shoot big game at long range, well frankly that just is a pet peeve of mine, so I had to throw in my opinion.


Like I said, I have also seen some of the video "Beyond Belief" and I do not like it. I still do not like the idea but I will say that Sourdough at least seems like the sort that might actually know what he's doing.


Later, Jim.

[nomosendero]

There are too many goof balls out there that don't know what they are doing at 100 yards or any yardage.

Sourdough is merely sharing information, I think that is what these forums are about. When someone knows what they are doing & stay within
HIS limits, there is no problem. Sourdough, please let us know how your
Caribou hunt goes.