Author Topic: Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?  (Read 5647 times)

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Offline alien319

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« on: May 01, 2006, 01:48:03 PM »
I just thought I would see how many people still like the .30-30 Winchester.  I like it.  It provides enough power out to 200 yards for deer sized game, which most people don't shoot farther than.  At least on the east coast.  Just thought I'd see what people think?

 Brent
When an Army captain asked him for the direction of the line of retreat, Col Puller called his Tank Commander, gave them the Army position, and ordered: "If they start to pull back from that line, even one foot, I want you to open fire on them."
Turning to the captain, he replied "Does that answer your question?
We're here to fight."
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Offline killdeer

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2006, 02:00:04 PM »
Yep, I still see more 30-30s at the range during deer season sight in days than any other .30. Plus it's still a great learning cartridge.
 Most of my deer have been closer to 40 yds than 150.

Offline Idaho_Hick

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2006, 03:06:40 PM »
I've always thought the 30-30 was a bit like an ugly woman that cooks real well - I have one (30-30 that is) and enjoy playing with it.  Very practical.

Offline jim21

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2006, 03:21:13 PM »
I seen this nice eight pointer about 75 to 90yards away from me.I took my winchester 30-30 and shot at it.The deer never moved,I shot again,
this time the deer moved forward about 5feet,I shot again,and again,I
ended shooting at that deer 7 times before it fell.We skined it out that
evening,we found 7bullit holes in him.We had a game warden age the
animal,it was around 9years old.Some of the toughest venison I ever ate.
I never took that winchester hunting again. 8)
I'm not in VietNam anymore,so get someone else to walk point.('69-'70)

Offline Brithunter

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2006, 10:48:04 PM »
Hmm well this says it all :-

Quote
I seen this nice eight pointer about 75 to 90yards away from me.I took my winchester 30-30 and shot at it.


    It's noticable that jim21 does not say where the seven holes were located :roll:  to work correctly the bullet has to hit the right place and do the damage to the vital organs.

I have used the 30-30 on a fair number of occasions with excellent results, however my 30-30 is a Bolt action and I shoot spitzer bullets through it so it's hardly a fair comparision, anf friends use the cartridge to very good effect. The 150 grn Winchester HP load seems to do a lot of damage on the beasts. The 30-30 has worked and will keep on working for many years  :lol:

Offline Mikey

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2006, 02:05:20 AM »
alien319 - the 30-30 is an excellent cartridge that has a lot more utility than most people think.  And lots of guys shoot it at ranges farther than 200m.  Take a look at a couple of posts up in the lever action forum and you will see posts from folks who shoot the 30-30 to 500m for metallic silhouette, and who are successful with it.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2006, 03:29:37 AM »
The .30-30 is a relatively new addition to my collection, but I’ve been shooting Marlins in .375 win and .45-70 for several years.  I like them all.

Factory 170 Winchester Power Points are quite accurate in my Marlin.  I shoot them at 200 yards on a regular basis – as in more often than any other range.  At 300 yards they have a bit of a drop, but I can ring a 12” steel gong around 90% of the time at that range if the wind isn’t blowing too hard.

As a deer cartridge where ranges are moderate, it’s hard to beat the .30-30.  It has enough of the right stuff for timber elk (say 100-125 yards) and at 200 yards a 150g bullet at 2400fps will still carry over 1,100 fpe – more than enough for deer.

Light recoil, good accuracy, enough energy for most shots and a light, easy to carry launcher.  What’s not to like?
Coyote Hunter
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Offline mountainview

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2006, 04:21:13 AM »
A fine deer hunting round and one that has been responsible for getting many a person started (myself included) into the sport. I still like to carry one from time to time as it allows me to spend a nice day afield and to bring back some nostalgic memories.

Offline Harold50

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2006, 05:02:47 AM »
Can't "keep house" without a 30-30:

Kept downstairs in a single-rifle rack overhead in the coat closet it is ready for instant service.

Lying unloaded across the seat of the pick-up it is handy.

Hearing it cycle at the top of the stairs is probably all the warning an intruder needs or deserves.

Every rifle nut needs one if for nothing more than comparison.

Best wishes,
Harold
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Offline Savage .250

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2006, 07:30:19 AM »
My son just bought a new Marlin lever in 30-30.  We took it to the range a few weeks back and he really likes it.  Going again this sunday to fire
   some more rounds through it  then do the final sighting in with the new
   Hornady Leverevolution ammo.
  He`s been shooting a Remington 7mm mag for years and after that this
  30-30  is a piece of cake.
" The best part of the hunt is not the harvest but in the experience."

Offline alien319

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2006, 08:54:22 AM »
I agree, I have Model 94 Winchester and love it.  It is a great rifle and I highly doubt it took 7 shots if placed properly.  The .30-30 is plenty powerful for deer if the correct shot placement is made.  Makes me wonder why we use the 5.56mm NATO in my M-16 A2 Service Rifle.  But those things are accurate.  I wish it was at least the new 6.8mm SPC if not the 7.62 NATO.  Oh well, that is for another post.  Thanks for your opinions fellas.
When an Army captain asked him for the direction of the line of retreat, Col Puller called his Tank Commander, gave them the Army position, and ordered: "If they start to pull back from that line, even one foot, I want you to open fire on them."
Turning to the captain, he replied "Does that answer your question?
We're here to fight."
- Chesty Puller at Koto-ri in Korea

Win. Model 94 .30-30, Lakefield Arms MkII .22LR, Mossberg 500 12GA, Ruger P345 .45ACP, Remington 700 .308/McMA4 stock, 1932 Mosin Nagant

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Offline huntswithdogs

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2006, 09:43:20 AM »
The lowly thutty thutty is one of those cartridges that folks can't figure out. Why does it kill a deer so well? I personally believe it's because it expends all of its energy on the animal thats ben shot. I've rarely seen a deer shot more than once,unless shot badly. Keep it within its and your paramters and it's deadly.

HWD

Offline beemanbeme

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2006, 09:45:01 AM »
30-30 has probably wounded more game than any other cartridge.  Followed closely by the .243.

Offline killdeer

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2006, 11:18:11 AM »
Quote from: beemanbeme
30-30 has probably wounded more game than any other cartridge.  Followed closely by the .243.



the implication is?

Offline Redhawk1

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2006, 11:23:42 AM »
Quote from: jim21
I seen this nice eight pointer about 75 to 90yards away from me.I took my winchester 30-30 and shot at it.The deer never moved,I shot again,
this time the deer moved forward about 5feet,I shot again,and again,I
ended shooting at that deer 7 times before it fell.We skined it out that
evening,we found 7bullit holes in him.We had a game warden age the
animal,it was around 9years old.Some of the toughest venison I ever ate.
I never took that winchester hunting again. 8)


Sounds like you need to learn shot placement.  :wink:
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Offline Larry Gibson

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2006, 11:25:57 AM »
Quote from: beemanbeme
30-30 has probably wounded more game than any other cartridge.  Followed closely by the .243.


I would beg to differ based on observation not opinion. I have observed hundreds of shooters at sight in days and other events prior to hunting seasons.  I find there are four types of shooter/hunters. Those who can shoot will shoot any cartridge/rifle combination well. Those who can't shoot (unfortunately the majority of hunters) most often will most often be overgunned with some gawd aweful magnum they are afraid of.  Then there are the once a year shooters who have a 30-30, 30-06 or some other rifle that their father or uncle, etc., used.  The last group will be youngsters or women with little shooting experience who often have a 30-30 or .243 because they can handle the rifle and the recoil.  

It is my observation that the second group, the gawd aweful magnum shooters, are the worst offenders when it probably comes to wounding game. They believe the magnum, if they hit the deer/elk anywhere, will kill it immediately.  They believe, because the gun rags say so, that they really can make 400+ yard shots so they really do blaze away at game that far away. Since the rifle knocks the snot out of them they have it "bore sighted" by the local Wal-Mart clerk so they are "zeroed". Or if they are "on paper at 100 yards that "is close enough". The fact is 99% of them do not practice with their rifles at all (a couple of the other groups don't really either) particularly from hunting shooting positions.  Many don't practice because they spent $100,000+ on the 4WD PU and 5th wheel trailer and bitch about the cost of the magnum ammo. Most of them not only have the biggest baddest rifle but they must have the biggest baddest scope on it because that's what the gun/hunting rags write about or it's to impress their buddies.

So what am I saying? 99% of all big game are shot on the short side of 200 yards with 80% of those shot on the short side of 100 yards. Survey after survey prove this regardless of whehter the huning is done in thick eastern and western coastal forests or the "wide open spaces" of the west.  Since this thread revolves around the 30-30, a deer cartridge, a 300 RUM with a 4.5x14X scope and $30+ daollara box of premium ammo is hardly needed to kill deer.  

Most deer hunters would be far better served with a rifle combination that they could learn to shoot, and shoot well. That is where the 30-30 in various types of rifles is so popular with the once a year deer hunter; it is entirely capable and deadly on deer within 200 yards. It is easy to shoot for those who don't shoot that often. It doesn't knock the snot out of you when you shoot it. You can shoot a lot more 30-30s (read that practice) for the same amount of money that magnum ammo costs. But primarily because hunters who don't shoot that often can shoot it better because it does not knock the snot out of them (read that; more accurately) they will, in fact, wound less game with it.

At sighting in days it is most often the magnum shooter who quickly demonstrates he has no idea how to shoot. Then after some instruction they manage to close their eyes and jerk the trigger through 10-15 shots. Then, and I don't know how many countless times,  I've had one of the magnum shooters ask me to finish sighting in his rifle because he was flinching so bad he couldn't keep it on a very large target at 100 yards from the bench.  He was usually complaing about the cost of the box of ammo he wasn't hitting anything with by this time also. Usually I tell them to rack the magnum to let the barrel cool and suggest they take a few "practice" shots with my 6.5 or .308 an occasionally a M94 in 30-30.  I get them to relax and coach them through marksmanship fundelmentals and have them dry fire a few shots to control the trigger jerk. Then I have them shoot my rifle. I've not had any miss the target or not shoot a deer killing 3 shot group. The all see the light and say they'd be better off with a smaller rifle but their egoes (usually larger than the magnums they shoot) get in the way.  I end up zeroing their rifle (for me not them) and they are off hunting. Sometimes they don't really care that their rifle is not zeroed and they go hunting anyways.

On the other hand I've had numerous men with the family 30-30 sit down and say they've not fired it since they got their deer the year before. Most are attentive when I talk them through basic marksmanship. I generally find the rifles are zeroed and they keep 5 shots in a 6" bull at 100 yards. Many shoot some very good groups with the iron sights on the M94s and M336s. Many will end up shooting one or two boxes of ammo practicing from standing, kneeling and sitting positions. No egoes there, they say thank you and head out hunting.

The best to teach are the woman and youngsters. I usually have dad go get some coffe or something and find a very attentive and willing to learn shooter. They listen and do as they are told. They shoot their 30-30s and 243s quite well and I seriously doubt they are the ones who wound the game.

Just some of my observations.

Larry Gibson

Offline killdeer

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2006, 11:48:40 AM »
Long way of saying, it aint the cartridge.




 I might know a guy drives a 300 RUM with a Leupie 4.5-14x40............

Offline ScoutMan

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2006, 03:56:25 PM »
Amen Larry!

Now if we could get them (those sighting in) to understand the concept of "Open Suprise Break" on trigger control and learn to "Call their Shot", we can send them home to do dry fire practice. They would become very good shots in a short time.
If you can get closer, get closer
If you can get steadier, get steadier.

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Offline beemanbeme

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2006, 05:50:21 AM »
Lets see now, my statement is an "opinion" but your observations AT A RIFLE RANGE (which seemed to be an opportunity to do a little magnum bashing more than anything) becomes "facts" in the deer woods.  Give me a break.  :-D
A good bit of what you said, I'll agree with.  But the discussion is about the 30-30, not an open forum for magnum bashing.  By the very nature of the weapon -model 94-, it appeals to the spray and pray crowd.  And you put a grossly overpowered scope on it with the obligitory see thru mounts and you definitely have a formula for disaster.  

By the way, quite a few magnum shooters shoot them well.  Its all about practice.  It doesn't make any difference what a fellow is shooting, if he's a box a year shooter, he isn't gonna be very good with it.  The fact that its a 30-30 or a .243 or such, makes no difference. When he roots it out of the back of the closet, there isn't gonna be any blinding flash of light that changes him into "deadeye man".  :grin:

Offline Don Fischer

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2006, 07:01:38 AM »
I do believe that the following quote probally triggered Larry Gibsons reply, not magnum bashing!


Quote
30-30 has probably wounded more game than any other cartridge. Followed closely by the .243.



Great piece Larry, wish I had said it! I too have seen far to much of what you described.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline steve66

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2006, 07:09:53 AM »
Quote from: jim21
I seen this nice eight pointer about 75 to 90yards away from me.I took my winchester 30-30 and shot at it.The deer never moved,I shot again,



he was dead on his feet.  i have seen people whack deer with 300 mags and they have stood there.  they werent completely alive but not quite dead.  also if you hitt it in the hindquaters hes not going down if you hit him with a .338 mag.

i love 30-30's i just bought a marlin a couple of weeks ago and hit hits dead on at 50 yard but havent tried it further yet.   a 30-30 was the first rifle that i ever shot.  levers are by far my favorite action type.


the 30-30 has also taken many big bull moose, and im sure it has even acounted for its share of grizzlie bears (though i wouldnt use it for either)

Offline killdeer

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2006, 11:21:13 AM »
This thread has a little something for everyone.

Anti .243
Anti .30-.30
Anti magnum
Anti lever action
Anti casual shooter
Anti see through mounts
Anti high powered scope

Now if someone wants to comment on the virtues or lack thereof pertaining to the .30-.30 we can continue.

Offline alien319

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2006, 04:04:29 PM »
I wasn't trying to start a problem.  ALthough I do disagree with a few of the comments on the .30-30.  It is a wonderful round and I highly doubt it took 7 rounds for that deer.  I have never heard someone say it took that many rounds of a .30 cal. bullet to drop a deer.  Well I hope people continue to post on this topic I did enjoy hearing opinions on the .30-30.  Thanks guys and I hope you all continue to shoot and have fun doing it because that is what is great about the United States!!!

                   Brent
When an Army captain asked him for the direction of the line of retreat, Col Puller called his Tank Commander, gave them the Army position, and ordered: "If they start to pull back from that line, even one foot, I want you to open fire on them."
Turning to the captain, he replied "Does that answer your question?
We're here to fight."
- Chesty Puller at Koto-ri in Korea

Win. Model 94 .30-30, Lakefield Arms MkII .22LR, Mossberg 500 12GA, Ruger P345 .45ACP, Remington 700 .308/McMA4 stock, 1932 Mosin Nagant

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Offline Golsovia

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2006, 04:08:49 PM »
The worst thing about the 30-30, or 30 WCF, in my view, is the fact that it isn't new and it consequently isn't cool. That makes me and my 30-30(s :wink: ) go along together quite well.

On the plus side, one of the best things about a 30-30 are the guns it is chambered in, not the least of all the Winchester M94. If that isn't a friendly gun to handle, I don't know what is.

To cap it off, I don't think I have seen a gun which will drop an appropriate animal more quickly than will a 30-30, seven shots on a whitetail notwithstanding. I have whacked several carbiou very soundly with mine along with a host of other animals. All which were hit well, died quickly including a moose which took two shots to drop - less than some have taken with my 340 Wtby Mag. I'm not sure what conclusions one can draw. None as far as I can tell. I do know a 30-30 bullet will sever a moose spine and I have seen Failsafes and Nosler Partitions stopped by the same. Again, I don't know what conclusions one might draw but I suspect none.

A 30-30 in good hands is good company and it can keep good company with other bigger stuff when all are held in capable hands. (But sell it short as did the previous owners of the other three 30-30s I have- every rifleman deserves deserves a bargain now and then and the 30-30 is it.)

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2006, 05:27:26 PM »
Quote from: jim21
I seen this nice eight pointer about 75 to 90yards away from me.  I took my winchester 30-30 and shot at it.  The deer never moved, I shot again, this time the deer moved forward about 5feet,I shot again,and again,I ended shooting at that deer 7 times before it fell.  We skined it out that evening, we found 7bullit holes in him.  We had a game warden age the animal, it was around 9years old.  Some of the toughest venison I ever ate.  I never took that winchester hunting again. 8)


You don’t mention where your first shot was placed, nor the others.  I’m guessing placement left something to be desired?

My last elk was shot with a .45-70 at 213 yards.  The 350 bullet was doing about 1539fps and carried around 1840fpe at the time of impact.  It passed through the front foreleg, obliterating a section of leg bone in the process.  It then entered the chest cavity, obliterated a section of rib, nicked the heart, shattered a far rib and came to rest under the hide on the far side.  In the process it expanded to .6225” and retained 271g.   It made a big hole and did lots of damage in the right places.  Nothing wrong with the load or placement.  The amazing thing, however, was that the bull remained standing for perhaps 20 seconds.  Sometimes they just do that.

At 75-90 yards a typical 150g or 170g .30-30 load carries around 1500fpe.  That’s far more than is needed to take deer cleanly.  It certainly doesn't take 7 well-placed shots.
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Offline ms

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2006, 04:35:58 AM »
:-D  :-D  :-D  
I seen this nice eight pointer about 75 to 90yards away from me.I took my winchester 30-30 and shot at it.The deer never moved,I shot again,
this time the deer moved forward about 5feet,I shot again,and again,I
ended shooting at that deer 7 times before it fell.We skined it out that
evening,we found 7bullit holes in him.We had a game warden age the
animal,it was around 9years old.Some of the toughest venison I ever ate.
I never took that winchester hunting again.  
You are going to hell for this story now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline longwalker

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30-30 M94
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2006, 06:12:56 AM »
A good combination.

I like the 30-30 because it is easy to carry and shoot. It kills deer and when used with in its range is a point and shoot gun. The first deer I Killed with it went down in about 50 feet. Since then It has done it's fair share of putting deer in the freezer. I have witnessed bang flop kills and I have seen deer killed and just not known it for a while. I can claim the same experiences with bigger calibers. So whats it prove? Only that there is no one best caliber. You should hunt with what you want and not what someone thinks you should.

Isn't half the fun in getting just a little bit closer. Heck, the idea of making 300 yard plus shots is really only target practice. Getting close to the game is the essence of the hunt.

longwalker

Offline steve66

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Re: 30-30 M94
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2006, 07:04:09 AM »
Quote from: longwalker


Isn't half the fun in getting just a little bit closer. Heck, the idea of making 300 yard plus shots is really only target practice. Getting close to the game is the essence of the hunt.

longwalker


exactly when i got my moose i had a shot at him at 200 yards.  i knew my -06 would get the job done but i called him in to 15 yards.  it was alot more fun seeing the moose at 15 yards then it was at 200.

Offline Larry Gibson

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2006, 07:35:33 AM »
I kind of banged away there and didn't correct the spelling or some of the grammer, sorry about that.

beemanbeme

I wasn't bashing magnum shooters en toto. I was bashing those who can't shoot and won't bother to learn. Those who buy the biggest to massage their egoes and impress friends. The fad these days is magnums and crew served scopes. I know many good shooters with magnums who shoot them well. I have a couple magnums myself though I only hunt deer with the 375 H&H with cast bullets (equivent to 375 Win) occasionally. Besides, most of those who have magnums and can shoot them don't show up at sighting in days to zero. They are already zeroed and are probably the ones working the sighting in at the range like me.

The jist of my post was in rebuttal to your statement, actually opinion because you did not back it up with fact or observation. You merely stated; " 30-30 has probably wounded more game than any other cartridge. Followed closely by the .243."  The use of the word "probably" makes your statement an opinion, or at least that's how I took it.  I would be more than happy to hear any experiences or observations you have to substantiate your opinion.  

I think you'll have to agree that bullet put where it's supposed to be put whether it is a magnum, a 30-30 or a .243 will kill a deer. It's the "putting it there" that is the problem with many hunters. Not whether any of them kill any better.

Larry Gibson

Offline Idaho_Hick

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Your thoughts on the .30-30 Winchester?
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2006, 09:44:41 AM »
Just to stir the pot a little more, thought I would share a personal observation of mine, I, personally, have seen more game wounded with a .22 LR than all other cartridges put together.