Author Topic: Building Up Your Soil For Food Plots  (Read 2749 times)

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Offline Hunter Mann

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Building Up Your Soil For Food Plots
« on: May 03, 2006, 02:46:36 PM »
Up here in the north, we have a real sandy loam. It really lacks organic matter. One of the things we just did to build organic matter in the soil in a new food plot is plant rye. We will disc this rye into the ground and follow it with a planting of winter wheat around the second week of August.

By tilling in the "green manure" we will have an incredible black top soil in just a few seasons.

The same can be done with an early planting of buckwheat when the soil gets to a temperature of about 45 degrees. We can follow this in August with a planting of forage rape and turnips (purple top is what's available here).

Not only does this build up tremendous organic material in the soil while providing nutrients to your following crops, but whitetails relish this stuff.

What are some of the things you've done to build up your soil?
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Building Up Your Soil For Food Plots
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2006, 04:03:25 PM »
Florida soils are noted for their prehistoric "beach" sands which were left following the rise of this low lying State from the Primordial Ocean.  Soil nutrients leech out very quickly through these permeable soils due in part to our greater than 52 inches of normal rainfall annually.  

I take samples from my fields to the Agricultural Extension Agent for testing ($2.00/test) and soil amendment recommendations based on the "crop" I intend to plant.  Sometimes our commercial advertisers are quicker to make seed available that has not been tested by the Ag. Center (some Mossy Oak Biologic stuff).  It didn't fair too well and the deer were not too keen about trying it.  We don't plant it anymore.

I could write for days about annually varying weather conditions, lack of mositure, too much moisture, and wildfires; all of which aided crop failures in the past.  When we "got it right" our iron clay peas were doing VERY WELL intersperced with red ladino clover, wheat, rye, and oats.  

In two days, immediately prior to the deer season opening, the deer ate all of the peas to the ground.  I'm talking two acres of 6-inch high pea plants gone in two days!!!  The ground looked like a highway of deer hooves had been there.  We didn't see one deer all season after that.

The last two deer seasons we have had severe hurricanes.  The land was flooded and too wet to plow.  The only good thing about the hurricanes, they topped trees and blew most of the limbs/leaves off of the trees.  The sunlight got back to the previously shaded ground and new natural growth inspired the BEST deer activity we have seen in 18 years.

Go figure.  A controlled burn is what we really needed, but we got five hurricanes instead.  Now we know, add soil amendments, plant the right crops, encourage native growth, and add lots of sunlight.

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Offline Hunter Mann

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Building Up Your Soil For Food Plots
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2006, 04:05:19 PM »
We had our soil tested two years ago, and then tested it by ourselves for pH last year. We will send in a soil sample to the local county extension service. Our soil tests cost us $10 a piece...... :(

Our soil recommendation was for 2 tons of lime per acre. The soil pH was 5.1. We had them come in with a truck and broadcast 6 tons of lime. That cost us about $125 total. But the results were night and day from years previous. Corn was twice as tall and twice as green. Brassica (a Biologic blend) was twice as tall, as well. It must have been more pallitable from the liming. The deer wouldn't let it grow. Brassica is an acquired taste for deer. You might have to plant that Biologic a couple years in a row for the deer to become fond of it. But when they do, they'll devastate it. Just like your clay peas.

Most people, unless they are serious farmers, don't realize the importance of a balanced soil pH. Improper pH throws off the plants uptake of all major and minor nutrients. That and weed control. If your plants have to compete with native grasses and weeds, they will most often lose that battle. Round Up is our best friend against bracken ferns. They are incredibly thick.
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2006, 03:46:13 PM »
I've got a "managable" 20 acres compared to your 80+.  By no means could I be considered a "farmer".  I struggle with the basics.  

Let's start with what goes right and degrade from there.  Tractoring has become a real asset.  I REALLY enjoy the work that I am able to do with the tractor.   I bush hog a lot and have a pretty good handle on that.  I use a 20 blade disc harrow and have had pretty good results with it too.   Ditto with the box blade.  Ditto with 20-feet of chain link fencing used to drag over newly spread seed.

Liming is not my firend.  I need lime but getting it is an unknown to me.  I have not limed before.  I am uncertain where to start to look for it.  I suspect the local feed and seed or tractor repair shop might steer me into the right direction eventually.  Maybe the Agricultural Extension Agent is the right place to start.  Certainly this season with its 3-month drought stretching into 4 is a "perfect" time to lime.  The truck, if I can find one can get in and out without getting stuck.  

Problems will come with the resumption of the rains.  Our average is over 52-inches per year and we're way behind right now.  The soils are sandy,  the water table is artificially very low, and high intensity rainfall will swiftly percolate nutrients right past the root zone.  Same with fertilizers.  

Implement repairs are a big hinderence when farming is not "in the blood".  My disc needs new bearings.  Trying to get the end nuts off is a bigger job than my current tool set will allow.  I believe the purpose of the flat bar bent over the flat of the keeper nut on the 1-1/8" diameter "disc gang" shaft is to prevent that nut from backing off when the implement is in field use.  That is good in the field, but not so good when it is time to remove the nut.  I wonder how others get that flat bar and nut off?  I don't have a cutting torch - yet. Is that a fortunate occurrence?  Perhaps.  It keeps me from ruining things too quickly.  

Investment in a LARGE tool set for farming implement repair is an unanticipated expense.  I am thinking I need a new deep socket to fit that nut.  I don't know if my existing 1/2" breaker bar will be enough metal to turn the nut.  Then there is the difficulty of keeping the gang of disc's from rotating when trying to remove the nut (if I get that far).

I know, I know.  Stop the whining...

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Offline Hunter Mann

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Building Up Your Soil For Food Plots
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2006, 04:03:50 PM »
Funny you should mention repairs. My buddy and I were doing some broadcasting of wildlife mix seed over the holiday weekend. I was using a 12v spreader on my 300 Artic Cat. The aligator clip touched the frame while being connected to the positive terminal.

I now have to replace the entire main wiring harness, as it completely melted 3 of the ground wires. There's $150 I didn't want to spend.

With that sand you have, you will probably be best served as we are with our sandy soil by applying the fertilizer in stages. Instead of hitting one at planting and once in the fall, break that down into monthly doses and fertilizing monthly.

That works for us until we get some organic material built up in the soil. Until then, leaching is terrible. Once it will hold the nutrients, we fertilize as recommended.
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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2006, 05:18:06 PM »
I am having a very difficult time locating someone to Ag lime my fields.  The tractor repair shop owner called a couple of local citrus grove owners on my behalf.  They indicated to him that my fields are TOO SMALL for their equipment, my requirements are TOO SMALL for their consideration, and I am not in sequence with their lime shipments.

I am faced with purchasing pelatized lime for $5.75 per 40# bag.  That's almost $300.00 per ton of lime and I have to open and spread it myself on top of that.  What has happened to the small farmer in America?  Am I arriving too late or too early?

At this rate, my math says that for 1/4 the lime that you use per acre (500#) I am paying 3.5 times more than your cost per acre!  That equates here to a mathematical product of almost 14 times your cost per ton of spread lime and I still have to labor to spread it!!!

Something is seriously wrong with lime distribution in East Central Florida if this turns out to be the "best" pricing that I can get.  I refuse to pay those prices.  The wildlife will just have to go without sweet feed until I can figure something else out.

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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2006, 06:01:14 AM »
...the saga continues:  I contacted Diamond-R Fertilizer, Dolomite Mines in Ochechobee, FL.  They sell huge shipments in bulk - 22 tons per shipment.  They do not spread.  Spreaders are located in farming areas (Gainesville/Alachua/Palatka/Ochechobee/Belle Glade/etc.).  I am located in a citrus area (Brevard County).  Citrus liming is done in the Fall.  No shipments to this area at this time of year.    

The mine will confer with their known spreaders to see if one would be interested in dividing a shipment, driving to my area, and spreading the lime.  No guarrantee although historically and with the increased gasoline prices it is almost a "No".

Their price for 3 tons of baged and pelatized lime (@ $6.03/40# bag) is over $900.00 unspread.  That's ridiculous.

Fertilizer (@ ~$4.50/50# bag) is about the same order of magnitude.  Ridiculous.

I am trying to contact one known local huge land owner/cattle rancher/citrus grower in hopes that he will take pitty on the lowly small acreage land owner and share his knowledge and offer some help.

One business out of Umatilla (70 miles NE) has tentatively offered, when they are next in town (maybe a month no guarrantee) for another large Agri-business (I have to stay in touch with them to see when they will be here) to spread 3 tons for $225.00 if their huge equipment can operate on my small parcel.  At least this seems to be headed in the right direction.

Offline Wynn

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Building Up Your Soil For Food Plots
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 11:40:36 AM »
Land Owner, you may want to contact some local hay cutters in your area. The man that cuts hay on our pastures on 50/50 shares with us does all our fertilizer and dolomite spreading for us. You still may have a problem getting a less than full bulk load. If you know someone with a small dump truck, you may be able to get them to haul it for you from the source. I am useing Aglime out of Babson Park in Polk County as my source this year. I am having 132 tons delivered beginning on June 5th.
None of our pastures or grass runways are larger than about 30 acres and some are as small as 10. We also have 6 separate groves, the largest, 29 acres. Our grove service has no problem spreading fertilizer with their equipment. Find a small grove service, as many groves are being swallowed by the large corporations/co-ops and will appreciate the work. They charge by the acre. I've never heard of this "apply only in the fall" nonsense. I bought a 300lb spreader last year for $350 new and did a couple of acre & 1/2 acre food plots myself behind my lawn tractor. Even 20 acres could be done in a weekend. I'll get you a couple of Polk County phone numbers tomorrow from work. Who knows, we are not that far apart.
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Offline Wynn

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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2006, 12:03:53 PM »
By the way, this may be a long shot for you but I get my dolomite for the food plots at my hunting lease in the Green Swamp by shoveling up the waste that inevitably falls out of the big compartment dump trailers that it is hauled in. I can usually get at least 300 - 500 lbs in the back of my pick up this way from each trailer load. The trailers are often parked on the shoulder of paved roads and no one minds if you want to shovel up the "pile" beside the road. Since I am 55 years old, I usually enlist a "younger" hunt lease member to help with this task and do it early on weekend mornings before it gets to hot.
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Building Up Your Soil For Food Plots
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2006, 03:24:21 AM »
Like most sleuthing projects, finding a source is half of the battle.  I am not connected to the hay cutters.  Finding one is going to take some time.  Likewise, I don't know where the trucks stage.  I will begin to ask that question.  

I also posted on Yesterday's Tractor Implement Forum and got some really good and some really weird replies.  That is to be expected I suppose.  I am not related to farming and am trying to gain experience, sometimes by floundering and blundering my way through.  I have a MF 275 and spreading lime by hand is not what I had in mind.

Someone penned that "every endeavor is impossible, until you have done it one time."  Kind of feels that way.  

Thanks for the advice.

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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2006, 10:33:19 AM »
I may have hit the proverbial nail on the head today.  I reached a Construction Contractor that is also a Grove Owner.  He turned me over to another man that limes his fields and together we mapped out a tentative strategy.  He still has some homework to do but pricing is going to be about 1/3 for powered lime than the pellitized alternative.  I am going out with GPS to field verify the extent of the fields and plan the purchase of bulk lime.  Where to store it when there is no structure there today?  One thing leads to another, eh?

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Offline Wynn

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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2006, 12:49:20 PM »
I store it, if I have to hold it for any length of time, under tarps or plastic sheeting.
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« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2006, 03:27:39 PM »
Much needed rains are arriving daily.  If powdered lime is like gypsum and wicks moisture, I am going to have to closely coordinate delivery, spreading, tilling, and storage.  If any of the lime "solidifies" can it be pulverized again and spread later?

Offline Wynn

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« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2006, 11:47:57 AM »
We use the dolomite version and it will not harden immediately like powdered lime. I used bagged, powdered lime 1 time and swore never again. It is like flour in consistancy and will harden like a rock given enough moisture. Dolomite is more like a heavy sand, is not dusty like raw lime and is much easier to spread. Raw lime is also much slower to benefit the soil than dolomite. We finished up applying dolomite to our pastures Sunday. Just in time for tropical storm Alberto. Received 4" of rain since midnight.
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« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2006, 02:07:31 PM »
I don't want to pay the price for pulverized lime ($$ pellets > 3X powder). I am trying to coordinate purchase and tillage (by me), delivery and application (by others) within a seemingly narrow window of opportunity.  I agree the pulverized (pellitized) dolomitic lime is easier to obtain, spread, and store.  Getting 2-3 tons of lime per acre does not economically compute using dolomitic lime (unless it is the only way to get there from here).  

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Offline Hunter Mann

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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2006, 02:53:24 PM »
We use the bagged, pelletized lime on some of our plots. We extended our plotting this year to include some very remote areas. They have not been limed to the 2 ton per acre we need and are looking for a way to buy bagged in bulk. Maybe by the pallet. I'm not sure they do that.

But someone is supplying my local feed store with 50lb bags that he is charging me $3 and change for, so I know it's available somehwere. If I find out where, I'll drop a line here.

There's nothing quite like taking 20, 50lb bags of lime and loading them by hand into a rack mounted ATV spreader. You really ought to try it sometime. It takes about a 6 pack :-D
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Re: Building Up Your Soil For Food Plots
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2006, 03:54:39 PM »
I believe I have finally located an Ag lime provider and spreader for $25.00/ton.  That is 1/12 the cost per ton of unspread pellitized lime (see previous posts). 

Where is the middle ground?  I would have been finished by now if that had been located.  I am still not entirely certain about the Ag lime as it is not yet a done deed.  I will probably have to purchase a 22 ton lime shipment and "waste" 10 to 12 tons (I only need 10 to 12 tons).  Even so, with that waste I am still ahead financially by a factor of 4. 

I will disc the remaining lime into the roads and when the lime stiffens up the soil, well there you go.  Potentially no more rutting of the roads in inclement weather, or at least that is hoped.