Author Topic: Stop the war in IRAQ  (Read 1180 times)

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Offline Savage

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Stop the war in IRAQ
« on: May 05, 2006, 12:37:05 AM »
What's up with the "Stop the war in IraQ" titles on all the forums?
Savage
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Offline myronman3

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Stop the war in IRAQ
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2006, 12:56:34 AM »
obviously g.b.o. has been the victim of some uneducated moron with nothing else better to do.   for all their technical genious,  they cant even spell iraq right.  maroons.  

  all this does is make me angry and solidify my support for the war.   makes me wonder how these idiots think.    :evil:

Offline kyote

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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2006, 02:53:22 AM »
you could not have said it better.bunch of commies....
my huntin rifle is safe from confiscation only while my battle rifle protects it.

Offline Graybeard

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Stop the war in IRAQ
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2006, 05:54:56 AM »
Yup we got hacked last night. I've fixed what I can but it's still showing on every thread on the site. Matt is going to try to write a program to remove it or we may be able to get a back up from our host that is say 24 hours or so old that we can replace and only lose a few posts but get rid of the war message.

Give us a little time and we'll try to get it back to normal.

In the mean time anyone can edit their own post if they started the thread to remove it. So can moderators on their forums. I'll delete some as I see them today.

Hopefully Matt will find a mass fix soon but until then members and moderators can help by deleting it with an edit.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Black Jaque Janaviac

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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2006, 10:01:55 AM »
Hey man I'm all for stopping the war.  It's just how we should go about it that I disagree with the lefties.  We did a fairly decent job of stopping WWII.
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Offline Brett

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Stop the war in IRAQ
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2006, 10:16:23 AM »
I agree. The best way to stop a war and make sure that it stays stopped is to totally smash the enemy and not pussyfoot around trying to be 'sympathetic combatants'.  WWII was the last war where we pulled out all the stops and did what had to be done.
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Offline ShootnStr8

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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2006, 02:31:53 AM »
Congrats to Matt and GB for getting GBO back in order so quickly after the hack!  Nice work!  

Blessings!

ShootnStr8
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Offline Savage

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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2006, 04:49:10 AM »
Congrats to Matt and GB for getting GBO back in order so quickly after the hack! Nice work!

+1
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline kyote

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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2006, 08:06:58 AM »
I don't know how you guy's do it.but,that was good work..seems to be it's ole self again.may camel spiders and and the fleas of a thousand rabid dogs infest thier private parts..(of the hackers)
my huntin rifle is safe from confiscation only while my battle rifle protects it.

Offline TNrifleman

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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2006, 01:55:05 PM »
GB,

Thank you for all the work that goes into keeping this forum the best around.

I hate that some stupid coward hacked the site. I have never understood what maked some people want to destroy things and cause others grief. :?

Offline papajohn428

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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2006, 04:28:31 PM »
Stop the war?  Absolutely!  Kick the snot out of the bad guys until there aren't any more idiots who want to massacre civilians, then we'll stop the war.  Seems pretty simple to me, but then, I'm a simple kinda guy..........

PJ
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Offline rockbilly

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« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2006, 05:20:26 PM »
:shock: Any fool that thinks we should stop the war only needs to read the following.  If they are not convinced we belong there afterwards,  they must have a rag tied around their head..............

Food for thought!!!! This war is more serious for us than what we think.

Please take the time to read the attached essay by Dr. Chong. It is without a doubt the most articulate and convincing writing I have read regarding the War in Iraq. If you have any doubts please open your mind to his essay and give a fair evaluation.

I had no idea who Dr. Chong is or the source of these thoughts... so when I received them, I almost deleted them - as well-written as they are. But then I did a "Google search" on the Doctor and found him to be a retired Air Force Surgeon of all things and past Commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. So he is real, is connected to Veterans affairs in California, and these are his thoughts.

They are worth reading and thinking about! (the same Google search will direct you to some of his other thought-povoking writings )

Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA. A different spin on Iraq war.

This WAR is for REAL! Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired

Tuesday, July 12, 2005

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start? Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United State is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;

* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;

* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;

* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York attack 1988;

* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;

* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;

* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;

* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;

* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;

* New York World Trade Center 2001;

* Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

3. Who were the attackers? In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World?  25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that

made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).

(see <http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm>

http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others. Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting. So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean? It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.

What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and cannot help them. They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France.

France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast! If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?

The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win. So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then. Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head. Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq. And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, the beheading of American prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.

Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can. To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal.

It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United State, but throughout the world.

We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world!

We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read. If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.

Doesn't that sound eerily familiar? Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power. They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.

After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that include the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!

EVERY ONE NEEDS to read it. Our "leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too. There are those that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE!

Offline Brett

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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2006, 02:31:22 AM »
Finally someone who doesn't have their head in the sand!  I think this guy is right on the money.  If we don't stop pussyfooting around trying to please everyone our way of life is doomed.
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Offline papajohn428

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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2006, 03:42:30 PM »
Agreed.  He puts it in terms anyone can understand, with clear logic.  The wrong outcome is something we can't begin to comprehend, an end to our way of life, period.  Torture, terror, bullying, beheading.  Intimidation at all levels, until WE become like THEM.  Or Die.  Which is really what they want.  And they will stop at nothing until they kill us all.  Pretty simple!  I suggest everyone who reads this do the copy/paste thing, and send it to everyone you know in an E-mail.  Right Now!  

PJ
If you can shoot home invaders, why can't you shoot Homeland Invaders?

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2006, 12:07:56 AM »
What method would one suggest to putting a final stop to terrorism without the use of nuclear weapons and the killing of ALL Muslims without distinction of guilt??
What would one suggest doing with all other forms of terrorist???
How would you determine/define a terrorist??
What would one do with all white supremist??
Would the use of nurlear weapons EVEN guarentee sucessful elmination of terrorism???
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Offline nrb

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Questionable questions
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2006, 01:38:00 AM »
Why bring up nuclear weapons when we discuss terrorism? Your questions are leaps and bounds away from the article discussion. I believe the discussion is about freedom vs terrorism and political correctness. If you cannot distinguish what is a terrorist act and who are terrorists, well....  Please reread the article for your edification.

best,     nrb

Offline Heavy C

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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2006, 05:39:06 PM »
Wow, thanks for sharing rockbilly!  I have felt for a very long time that we have become so politically correct that it is hard to function.  Whether in society, business, and especially politics we've lost the initiative because we are too concerned about hurting each others feelings.  It's high time that people start following Dr. Chong's lead and tell it how it is so that it is abundantly clear what the consequences are of our actions or in-actions.  I feel for those who have lost loved ones in the war for they have already made the greatest sacrifice.


 :cb1:

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2006, 12:58:46 AM »
I think the question is appropriate.
We have terriorist in this nation and we find no means to stop it from happening.
The question still stands.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Heavyhaul

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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2006, 11:04:35 AM »
I'm not ready to give up all of our rights.  I think that the article says it all except the fact that I believe that some political people would let this country fall to have their way and say "I told you so".  I won't mention anybody in particular.  In order to win this war, actions must be taken as in the past.  Lincoln did so things that would have him impeached today,  as did Roosevelt, Truman, and any other President during war time.  Some of our most notorious gangesters could only be arrested for tax evasion.  Alot of these terrorist are known, bu twho will testify against them in court.  I think this needs handled in a different way.  Great article though.  I wouldn't have posted, but my little brother comes back from Iraqand hopefully home this week.

Offline Mainer

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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2006, 04:53:07 PM »
I did a little bit of browzing on the net, and I'm not convinced this essay is by General Chong.

Regardless of the actual author, who asside from Michael Moore seriously disputes that we are at war with Muslim terrorists and that they are a serious, deadly threat?

Furthermore, I don't buy into the idea of profiling Muslim men.  Indeed, I heard the Muslim terrorists who have attacked Russia used profiling to their advantage.  They utilized women and non-Muslim-appearing Chechens to perpetrate attacks.  Plus the idea of punishing all Muslims for the misdeeds of terrorists is a Nazis tactic.  It is called collective punishment.  It is an entirely un-American concept.  This is the country where the idividual is supposed to be judged by his individual actions, good or bad.

Also, I'm not fast to jump on the bandwagon of giving up individual rights.  That idea reminds me of the following words of wisdom by founding father Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Finally, any US soldier who mistreats prisoners disgraces his country and uniform and undermines US foreign policy.  A friend of mine who served in Iraq said the opinion of some of those in his unit was that troops who commited the offenses at the Abu Ghraib prison deserved to be executed.  I take that to signify that many US soldiers in the field hold themselves and their colleagues to a high standard of conduct.  The author apparently has pretty low standards for US troops.  That's pretty pathetic if the author is, in fact, a retired general officer.
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Offline His lordship.

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The public has a short memory.
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2006, 08:40:51 AM »
The criticism of what is going on in Iraq is the daily grind of people getting killed, it appears to the general public in the states that it is pointless.  My friend who served in Iraq says that the citizens here don't see things the way he and his fellow soldiers did who were there.  Sep 11, 2001 was several years ago, and to the average person in the USA, it is getting distant, more forgetful due to the time frame involved.

Unfortunately, it will take another attack like Sep. 11 to sway public opinion, then many Americans will forget after 2-3 years again, and then another attack...and over and over, ect.

The average Joe right now is more concerned with his job, his SUV, his kids, his junk food, and the upcoming baseball/football game on the weekend.