Free advice on 30/30 Win contender barrel

[joeb33050]

I thought I'd buy a SSK 300 whisper barrel for cast bullet target shooting and asked if anyone had experience with the caliber. Iheard of essentially no experience, but a great deal of free advice and opinions. The 30/30 was said to be the catd's ass for CB's. There is no shortage of opinion on this list. So I bought a 14" 30/30 bbl from Ed, it came yesterday, I reloaded today, and the barrel has NO THROAT. No bullet .300 or larger will go in the chamber unless it is seated to eliminate interference. 311291 and 311299 don't work. Only undersized 31141's fit. The full rifling starts JUST in front of the case neck. This is opposite of my other contender bbls, that have throats so long the bullet can never touch the rifling and be in the case.  
Thanks so much for the free advice, it was worth every penny!
joe b.

[Robert]

Better go get your boat and look for square grouper instead.
  You sound VERY disgruntled...do you work for the post office?
I dont get it.  Where could you possibly go to shoot or hunt where you live?  That must be the real source of your irritability, so Why take it out on us?  
  BTW...I havent ever heard anything but high praises for ED's Contenders
(everybody but you)

[PaulS]

Joeb,
Did you discuss with Ed what type of bullets you would be using?
Have you talked to Ed about the problem? I am sure if you call him he will want to make things right for you. Remember that the only people who don't make mistakes are the ones who do nothing.

PaulS

[contender85]

:eek: What, No throat in a 30cal. Contender barrel? This is amazing as they are known for having very looong throats.
Call Ed, he will take care of you, or if you prefer call T/C either way I'm sure you'll get a good barrel out of it.
Mark

[Robert]

I am sizing MY cast bullets to .309 and they work fine in every chamber. .312 (or thereabout) seems rather large.  Might work OK in your SKS.  I think Joe should load some jacketed .308 bullets and see how THEY do in his throat before assuming that the problem is with Ed's barrel.  Sounds like 'user error' to me.

[Bullseye]

Don't really understand all this.  If I am reading right, a .300 diameter bullet will not go into the chamber.  If this is correct, no bullet is going to load in it jacketed or cast.  The barrel has a problem.  Now the rest of your post makes it sound like the length is too long to chamber.  I just bought a 30-30 barrel from Ed and a .308 jacked bullet chambers, so again the barrel must have a problem if a 300 diameter bullet will not go into the chamber.  Now the barrel I bought has a very short throat and it is very easy to set the bullet a little off the rifling.  Matter of fact using a Seirra 130 SSP bullet I had to seat the bullet a little shorter than the book said to get it .030 off the rifling.  Factory 30-30 chambers fine.  By my research, the older 30-30 barrels had the long throat and the newer barrels are better.

Next thing you know everone is mad because they think the poster said something bad about Ed.  I did not read anything bad about Ed, the poster just stated that he ordered the barrel from Ed.  I think the real reason everyone is mad is because their opinion is being questioned.  If your barrel has a problem which is sounds like it does from the way you wrote your post, send it to T/C and get it fixed.  

Now my word of advice.  I would not make a decision to buy a barrel based on what anyone here says.  If you pay attention, post asking for hard core advice about a problem usually get an answer, but very few.  Posts asking about opinion get a lot of answers, but they are just that, opinion.  You might want to check into the opinions, but do your own research to make your decision.  Personnal I would never shoot cast bullets in a 30-30, so all the opinions would mean nothing to me.

Good luck getting your barrel problem fixed.

[Joe Kool]

joeb33050, if you want to shoot cast bullets, consider yourself lucky to get a 30/30 barrel with a short throat. You can throat the barrel yourself and get it just how you want it. Call Clymer Precision Tools, 313-853-5555, and order a throating reamer and the t-handle to use it. The people at Clymer will be more then glad to help you with any questions you have. Order a .310" diameter throat with a 1.5 degree leade, and the pilot for standard .308 bore. The 1.5 deg. leade will guide the cast bullet gently into the rifling, as compared to a steeper angle. Then take the longest bullet you plan on using, such as Lyman #311284 or #311467 (sized to .309") and seat the bullet into the case. Don't seat the gas check into the powder cavity, you will lose accuracy if you do. I drill a hole in the case at the juncture of the neck and shoulder, so I can see where the gas check is. Then use the throating reamer. Cut a little at a time. Try to chamber the dummy round, with the longest bullet seated in it. The action will not close, the round will be too long. Be sure the first driving band is what is contacting the rifling. Keep cutting and testing the round untill the action closes. You will now have a throat set up for the longest bullet to chamber, with the bullet just contacting the rifling. What's nice about the long neck of the 30/30 is that shorter bullets can be seated to contact the rifling, they just will not seated as deeply into the neck. The long neck will allow you to use short cast bullets, and be able to contact the rifling or use long cast bullets and not have the gas check seated into the powder cavity. It will cost a little extra money to get the throat reamer and a little time to do the task, but it will make a big difference in shooting cast bullets.  
 An alternative is to seat the longest bullet you plan on using in a case and send the barrel and dummy round to a gunsmith, such as SSK, or Virgin Valley Arms, and have them throat it for you. Be sure they use a throater with a 1.5 deg. leade. The draw back is you may have to wait. You can get a throater from Clymer in a few days and do it yourself in an hour.  

[IronMonkey]

I am very fortunate and happen to live near Jim Henry.  He usually shows up to one of the silhouette matches at LASC.  All my barrels are fitted by him and the triggers are about 6 ounces, nice and clean.  At 20 bucks for most trigger work and fitting he is a certified bargain.  Not to mention a good guy with a lot of fun stories.  Yes, most of the TC throats suck and the chamber are not all that concentric to bore.  I am lucky in that I have one barrel that I traded for, has some bad pitting and still shoots like gangbusters so you never know.  My new 30-30ai also has no throat but it doesn't seem like it affects my loading all that much.  See you around.  Daniel aka IronMonkey

[MoustacheMike]

I am glad that you felt it was "worth every penny".

After all, you do get what you pay for.

MM

[RONNY]

Joe, I have also seen the same thing on a 30/30 bbl. Mike (not allowed here) has a post on his web sight that explaines what you are seeing. In a normal chamber the case mouth stops at the end of the chamber area and that diameter is the size of the outside of the neck with some clerance. Then the bore diameter starts which would be .308 with some of the rifiling reamed away to allow th bullet to go into the bore out past the neck and be supported by the bore diameter. This is a normal chamber. For what ever reason on some of the later TC bbls they just reamed the neck diameter .050 longer than standard and put a slight taper on the lands. This means that the bullet is in a hole that is .050 long and as big in diameter as the neck on the outside. The bullet is not supported by the bbl but just what is in the neck. I know I had one and it would only group about 4" at 100. I had it rechambered to a longer bigger round with a normal throat and it went to 1". I have also had a 32/20 bbl that was the same style chamber. The old 30/30 bbls are great but you have to watch the newer ones. RONNY

[bayrunner]

Hi guys ___ For  those of us who are less exp.  at this ,is there a way of detecting these throatless barrels other than looking down the barrels, I.D. #. etc. Thanks Bayrunner

[Bullseye]

Bayrunner

You can look into the barrel and tell the difference.  I do not know how much faith I put into this theory though.  I have 4 barrels in the calibers that this individual mentions and they show some degree of what he is saying when you look into the barrel.  However, they all shoot great.  I just bought a 30-30 that has this appearance.  I just put a scope on it and will see what it will do Friday.  I am rather curious.

[kirkwhitaker]

sounds like you have a no or little throat barrel. if shooting jacketed...will work fine...if you are seating your bullets deep...should work fine...try sizing to .309...but if you are not satisfied...call ed..tell him you want an older 6 groove barrel to shoot cast out of...the newer barrels have equal land and grooves...8 of them...they work fine for most people...us handloaders are the exception...since we want it slightly different.  if ed has one in stock he will probably swap you....kw

[joeb33050]

joeb33050, if you want to shoot cast bullets, consider yourself lucky to get a 30/30 barrel with a short throat. You can throat the barrel yourself and get it just how you want it. Call Clymer Precision Tools, 313-853-5555, and order a throating reamer and the t-handle to use it. The people at Clymer will be more then glad to help you with any questions you have. Order a .310" diameter throat with a 1.5 degree leade, and the pilot for standard .308 bore. The 1.5 deg. leade will guide the cast bullet gently into the rifling, as compared to a steeper angle. Then take the longest bullet you plan on using, such as Lyman #311284 or #311467 (sized to .309") and seat the bullet into the case. Don't seat the gas check into the powder cavity, you will lose accuracy if you do. I drill a hole in the case at the juncture of the neck and shoulder, so I can see where the gas check is. Then use the throating reamer. Cut a little at a time. Try to chamber the dummy round, with the longest bullet seated in it. The action will not close, the round will be too long. Be sure the first driving band is what is contacting the rifling. Keep cutting and testing the round untill the action closes. You will now have a throat set up for the longest bullet to chamber, with the bullet just contacting the rifling. What's nice about the long neck of the 30/30 is that shorter bullets can be seated to contact the rifling, they just will not seated as deeply into the neck. The long neck will allow you to use short cast bullets, and be able to contact the rifling or use long cast bullets and not have the gas check seated into the powder cavity. It will cost a little extra money to get the throat reamer and a little time to do the task, but it will make a big difference in shooting cast bullets.  
 An alternative is to seat the longest bullet you plan on using in a case and send the barrel and dummy round to a gunsmith, such as SSK, or Virgin Valley Arms, and have them throat it for you. Be sure they use a throater with a 1.5 deg. leade. The draw back is you may have to wait. You can get a throater from Clymer in a few days and do it yourself in an hour.