want to remove the VOODOO from gun cleaning

[cvrover1]

ok....seems like there are almost as many opinions on gun cleaning as there are colors in an M&M bag....I would like to dispel some basic issues with good input from you guys.....

two questions.....one related to proper brush and swab use and the other related to copper fouling and proper chemical usage...

1.  proper use of the brush and swab.....and I always use a bore guide, so that is a given....with the brush, always keep it wet with CLP when I use it, BUT big question is, " do you push the brush completely through the crown, and take the brush off to return the rod through the guide, or do you just pull the brush back up through to the guide?".....when is the proper time to use a swab??....after patching and brushing??....swab always clean?...or is it soaked in something?

2.  with copper fouling chemical treatment such as Shooters Choice "Copper Remover", is there a best use chemical to use that cleanly neutrelizes the ammonia to prevent etching?.....I have heard some folks comment that you shouldn't use Shooters Choice MC#7 to neutrelize....obviously, the last thing I want to do is think I am doing the gun some good by removing copper fouling and following proper protocol with chemicals just to actually do more harm....

reason for this is that I have just started to use Shooters Choice (both chemicals, one as the remover and the other as the neutrelizer) and will send about 4 or 5 patches of the Copper Remover down, takes about 5 or so minutes to do this and then immediately put about 5 patches of the MC#7 down to get rid of any ammonia....then follow up with Hoppes #9 and maybe some CLP before drypatching....

Maybe you guys can set me straight on proper use of brush, swab and copper remover stuff.....would appreciate the help....thanks

[killdeer]

I always push the brush all the way out the muzzle and remove.
 Changing direction inside the bore means all the bristles must change direction.
 Most people that end up with cleaning gear stuck in a bore were pulling it through, I always push.
 I don't clean to bare metal (copper fouling) often unless it is a problem bore. I tend to shoot until accuracy drops off unless inclement weather dictates cleaning.
 Have heard rubbing alcohol is a good copper solvent neutralizer?

[gunnut69]

I kind of agree that cleaning is being confused.. But it's really simple. There are 3 basic types of foulding, powder residue, carbon deposites and jacket metal. Hoppes #9 will clean the first 2 but won't touch the metal fouling. The quickest way to remove jacket metal fouling is with ammonia. If left too long in the bore or applied to hot steel(accelerates chemical process) there can be minor etching of the bore but if you follow manufacturers reccommendations it won't hurt a thing. The problem is that this crud is laud down in layers and the carbon/powder fouling under a jacket metal layer is protected from topically applied cleaners. You really find this out when using an electro-chemical cleaning device. I use Sweet's 7.62 on a patch then allow it to set a few minutes. Follow this with a brush wet with Sweet's. I push the brush thru and out the muzzle but pull it back. I'm looking for a mechanical solution to the fouling issue(metal and otherwise). A few passes with a brush and more wet patches. Repeat until the patches are fairly clean. Then cleaning with ShootersChoice or Hoppes to remove the powder fouling. A patch wet with Sweet's then follows as a sort of test. If this comes out really blue then we've uncovered more metal fouling..and start the process over. If this is to be a long term storage, after this process I follow with and elctro-chemical cleaning device and rerun the ShooterChoice/Hoppes again. When done the bore will be clean to nearly bare metal. It is then protected with a gease material.. This MUST be removed before use!!!!! If just storing for a few months I use a LSA or other oil to preserve the steel in the bore. I still recommend a light cleaning before use. Guns stored for possible use(house rifle are stored with a very light coat of ATF in the bore.  I use ATF(Automatic transmission fluid) a lot for lubrication and short term preservation. My pet 300 WM has lived with this regimen for 30+ years and still shoots better than I can hold it..  The jacket metal can damage the bore of a rifle with little indication of problems. The metal fouling traps moisture under it and holds it next to the steel of the barrel. Combined with powder fouling the moisture forms an acid brew guaranteed to pit a barrel super quick. I am interested in some of the foaming cleaners and plan on trying some asap. As I'm lazy and always looking for an easier way!!  Just my opinion and like belly buttons each has one.. Just remember that one barrel maker has written that more barrels are worn out from poor cleaning practices than from shooting.. Stainlees steel 1 piece rod(polished) brass brushes(brass wire centers) and brass spear point jags..

[JD11]

I went to an event last month and the Tetra Gun Cleaning Products rep was there as one of the many exhibitors.   A group of us listened to his interesting demo of their products for at least an hour.  We all learned how much we didn't know about proper cleaning.   One thing I especially liked is, after using their copper remover, you can use their aerosol solvent spray with the small nozzle tube at the chamber, gun facing downward, and spray all the copper remover residue out of the chamber and barrel.  I haven't checked it out yet, although I bought their cleaning pack, but the rep said quite a bit of their good info is on their site www.tetraproducts.com .