Author Topic: Buffalo/hippo and .454 (Read 3585 times)

Sverre A. · « **on:** May 07, 2006, 10:56:58 AM »

I recently came home from South Africa (my usual April-hunt there) - and will travel to Zimbabwe in August for a buffalo and a hippo if it can be hunted on land.

But (with a big B) - will the .454 do what it has to do if the buffalo charge (and will I)?

The last issue of the south african "Magnum" - there is an article about calibers and charge from our Big 5.

After reading this article 100 times - I start feeling a little uncomfortable with the .454.

Have someone of you experience about buffalo and .454?

mk454 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 07, 2006, 12:42:56 PM »

in a word, yes, but you will get a ton of responses that will range from yes to hell no, and all by people that haven't done it. answer,...... it's been done before and many times at that. lynn thompson from cold steel has stopped a couple with his FA454. anyway, the bottom line on a charge, and this is the part where you can tell who's done it and who hasn't, is if you want to stop a wounded buffalo you gotta penetrate the CNS. as in, central nervous system. you're not gonna turn a buff charge. any gun capable of penetrating the skull of the buff is capable of stopping the charge, and no gun will top a buff to the body. check out mark sullivan's videos. he stops his charges with one shot right to the brain, blammo. a couple aren't right on the brain but the animal is dazed, goes down, and he takes it in the brain right after, but that's using a heavy .600 nitro.

one particularly notable charge from his videos are one of the hippo charges where his client hits it just below the brain with a 416 rigby i believe and it doesn't slow it down one little bit until sullivan stops it with one of his smaller doubles with a perfect brain shot at about 5 yards or so. watch the final one on black death where he hits the buff in the head with a big double and the buff doesn't do a thing and keeps coming. the second one brains it and it falls where his feet were after he jumps out of the way of the falling buff.

bottom line, brain shot..........stop charge. no brain shot............no charge stopped.

he's got a new video which will answer your questions about anatomy and he breaks down the shots on all his charges and points out how most everything you've read is wrong and backs it with unquestionable proof.

that said......after reading and watching his stuff i've come to learn most of the top gun writers are just pretty much full of it and obviously didn't do and stop the charges they claimed.

those videos and some of the stuff i've gotten to read about those that have "been there" and done that is that, a pistol will do it.....44 mag with garrett's, 454, 500 smith, period will all do it if you hit the right spot. if you don't and hit to the body or miss the brain, none will do it.

besides a big double you can shoot really well, i truly believe the best gun for close quarters dangerous game is a wild west copilot leveraction chambered in .45/70 or better yet, the .500 alaskan.

Scott T · « **Reply #2 on:** May 07, 2006, 12:50:22 PM »

A pistol, even a Casull, is a poor excuse for a rifle. I would not want to try to stop a charge with one.

ms · « **Reply #3 on:** May 07, 2006, 01:40:40 PM »

:-D :-D Don't worry about it just get up in a tree start shooting or jump down on there back and shoot'em in the head. Ho make sure you spit on the bullet so they penitrate better.

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** May 07, 2006, 04:22:45 PM »

I believe a professional hunter will tell you it's not the hunting client's job to stop a charge but the job of the professional hunter guiding him. Yes you should be doing your best to assist him but stopping the charge I think is more the professional's job. Putting that first one in the right place is the single most important job of the hunter and then on dangerous game keeping on shooting until it's down and still.

Now to the question of whether you will or can do the job only you can answer that. If you have any doubt I'd not give it a try.

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2006, 08:45:16 PM »

I'm afraid it'd take more chutzpah than I can muster in my old age but when I young and stupid I'd've tried it in a heartbeat!! :lol:

Castaway · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2006, 12:48:15 AM »

Dusty, ..... and a slling shot

S.S. · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2006, 03:34:58 AM »

I think Lynn Killed one with one of his Cold Steel Spears
also, But I don't think that man has all of his faculties about him either.
(He is crazy for the most part I think)
I have never hunted South Africa, But I have Hunted the Swamps of South Georgia. And I have seen Boar hit several times with Those
Heavy Handgun rounds and still keep coming! I have see swamp Whitetail deer cover 100 yard or so after a pass through lung shot with them too. If a 450 pound boar can absorb them, I am sure a ton and a half of pissed off Buffalo will. Have you ever done something simply because it seemed like a good Idea at the time, only to find out that it was a really, really bad Idea shortly after you did it? I think you would find it is a bad Idea shortly after you pulled the trigger.

Scott T · « **Reply #8 on:** May 08, 2006, 03:57:16 AM »

Lynn Thompson is a god friend and fellow Shootist. Crazy, he is not. He enjoys life and hunting. You should see him try to wear out his .454 Casull at the Shootists' Holiday. He burns plenty of ammo and he is competent with it.

palgeno · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2006, 08:42:40 AM »

Check the FA website in the "Trophies" area-----looks like the Corbon 320 and 360 Penetrators have taken their share----I have not tried the 360 grainers, but have used the 320's on pigs----they do come out the other side. Anyone tried out both for accuracy in the Model 83? Gene

S.S. · « **Reply #10 on:** May 08, 2006, 10:06:10 AM »

Crazy was not meant really in a bad way.
Kind of like when I say nascar racers are CRAZY
when they are driving 190 mph with their bumpers
almost touching. Or when someone jumps out of a perfectly good airplane on a parachute or when someone deliberately goes swimming with sharks...Thatn kind of crazy! Now friend or not, you would really have to wonder about someone who hunts African Buffalo with a Spear!

Scott T · « **Reply #11 on:** May 08, 2006, 10:17:27 AM »

Believe it or not, I'll bet folks have been hunting buffalo with spears a long time before Dick Casull was even born! :grin:

MS Hitman · « **Reply #12 on:** May 08, 2006, 01:56:42 PM »

I've even heard of a certain tribe in Africa which requires a boy to kill a lion with a spear before becoming a man. Whoda thunk?

SJPrice · « **Reply #13 on:** May 08, 2006, 02:23:06 PM »

I know of some guys who chew SPEARmint gum and regularly are caught LION in the manly art of seducing women. Does that count?

mk454 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 08, 2006, 02:35:41 PM »

there's a good post about animals soaking up shots and running for some distance. buffalo will do this when shot with anything.......unless like i said you hit them in the cns, brain shot. that's it. the corbon 320 and 360 offer superb accuracy out of the FA 83, in fact, i reload for practice, but when it's game time, that's what i shoot, in addition to the 335 gr hardcast. they will kill anything that walks. should a charge ensue, the only thing that's gonna stop them is the brain shot, not the caliber. i think it gives some people comfort to think that if they have a big enough caliber they could just plug a buff or elephant in the chest and that'd be enough and since they'll likely never be in that spot it makes them feel good and reality will never set in. the best thing you could do is find a hardcast load, and shooting glove combo

that will allow you to develop pin point accuracy and then get pinpoint accurate. dont' worry about caliber so much. all pistols will require a brain shot as will all rifles on a charge. just hit em in the vitals first and most likely you'll never have a charge.

mark sullivan takes a lot of heat for his videos and his methods, but i feel he's right and the people that gripe about him are just those that deep down know they could never do what he does.

48Dragoon · « **Reply #15 on:** July 24, 2006, 01:44:02 PM »

Mark Sullivan is a poor excuse for a good example. Any proffesional hunter that deliberetly puts his clients in danger for good footage needs to have their PH license taken from them and their are many proffesional hunters in Southern Africa that would agree. This i know because i have met many in the years that i lived and grew up in Zimbabwe.

I wouldnt worry about trying to stop the buff with the handgun, any PH worth their salt would not let it come to that. A good PH does NOT walk up to a buff that is down but visibly alive with out first putting another shot or two into the downed buff to kill it. If however the buff does make it into thick jess just stay behind the PH, put the handgun away but keep it close. Take a rifle of suitable caliber and let him do his job. If an opportunity presents itself to put in a finishing shot with the handgun, take the hundgun out and finish the job.

Make sure you let the PH know of your intentions before the hunt begins. eg: if a finishing shot presents itself and it is safe, you would like the opportunity.

If you are matched with a PH like Mark Sullivan, request a different PH, you'll be alot safer. Lifes to short to feed some one else's ego.

Good Luck with the hunt.

dubber123 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:26:09 PM »

If I heard right, didn't Mark Sullivan recently get permanently smeared trying to pull his famous stunt?

48Dragoon · « **Reply #17 on:** July 25, 2006, 01:32:37 AM »

There are many he has been smeared for. Black Death being the most obvious. Walking up to a visibly alive buffalo, waiting for it to get up and charge is very irresponsible. Expecially with a client that cannot walk properly. Yes the client was in the back of the pickup but that still does not make it right.

He should of let the client finish it off from a safe distance, after all, he paid to shoot the buffalo.

Mikey · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2006, 02:30:08 AM »

Sverre - you gotta have bigger kyuns than I have to go after a Buff with a handgun. The last one I tangled with was a rogue Water Buffalo in Vietnam. He tore up my patrol something fierce, killing one man and goring a second. Small arms fire from AKs, M1 Carbines and 1919a4s (30-06) failed to stop him. It took two hits from a M79 Grenade Launcher to slow and then stop him with concentrated machinegun fire to the head to finish him. No thanks. I think those things are way to big and nasty to mess with using a revolver even though someone else has already done it successfully. I don't like takin' chances like that any more. JMHO. Mikey.

dubber123 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2006, 10:41:13 AM »

48Dragoon, when I say "smeared", I meant literally smeared into the dirt permanently. I have heard he pulled this stunt one too many times and something killed him a while back. Sorry for the confusion.

48Dragoon · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2006, 11:55:12 AM »

dubber123, sry about the confusion mate, i thought you were admiring him, lol. Didn't realise he was no longer with us, at least it wasnt a client that got smeared.

Cheers

Sverre A. · « **Reply #21 on:** July 25, 2006, 02:07:53 PM »

"I don't like takin' chances like that any more"

I will try to don`t take chances. But of course - the members of B5 have become members because they are more dangerous than other animals. So a shot which seem to be safe - can be something different than it seemed to be. That`s life

I will tell you about the hunt - if I come home

Sverre A. · « **Reply #22 on:** September 08, 2006, 01:22:05 AM »

Came home from Zimbabwe tonight - unwounded

I stalked two buffaloes (daga-bulls) - and shot the one at 35 m.
The bullet - 378 gr. hard cast/1350 fps. hit his left shoulder. Then he took off - and got another bullet about 10-15 cm from the first one. The third shot was a miss - or into a tree (very bushy area). Before he disappered at 50 m - I only had his left back leg to shot at - and the fourth bullet hit. Not long after that shot - I could hear his death-roaring.
Went up to him from behind - and shot him in the spine - just to be sure that I could write about this

.
He ran 62 m - before he fell down.

Olav · « **Reply #23 on:** September 08, 2006, 02:59:13 PM »

Congratulation Sverre,looking forward to the trip to SA with you next year.
But until then-al lot of practice with my 29

palgeno · « **Reply #24 on:** September 11, 2006, 09:36:19 AM »

Good shootin'---sounds like you did not have accuracy problems! Did you use open sights or scope? Glad you are unscathed! Gene

dogwhisperer5 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 11, 2006, 10:31:24 AM »

Obviously it can be done...as it has been accomplished. However, in my opinion..."only a fool or a man with a death wish..."!

Sverre A. · « **Reply #26 on:** September 12, 2006, 04:34:17 AM »

I used a Docter-sight.

Sverre A. · « **Reply #27 on:** September 12, 2006, 06:06:20 AM »

<in my opinion..."only a fool or a man with a death wish...">

You and my wife - have obviously something to talk about

I can assure you that I don`t have a death wish

Qaz · « **Reply #28 on:** September 13, 2006, 01:55:00 AM »

Interesting read, now my .02. I have always figured that if it took 3-4 shots to kill an animal, any animal, your either a poor shot or using the wrong gun. In this case, I believe you were using the wrong gun for the job! If I ever had the opportunity to hunt buffalo, I would use a xp-100 with a butt stock and 24" barrel in a 45caliber that ends in a 8 with a Lott at the end.

Qaz

Sverre A. · « **Reply #29 on:** September 13, 2006, 02:39:22 AM »

"believe you were using the wrong gun for the job"

A friend of mine shot his buffalo with his rifle in 404 Jeffery - the same day - with 400 gr. Woodleigh FMJ.
Two shots in the shoulder/lungs at 50-70 m. The third in the stomach at 90/100 m. The buffalo fell down after 120 m.
Also the wrong gun

When shooting antilopes/deer - and you see that the first shot hit deadly - well, then you can drink a cup of coffee, and start the butchering when you find it within 150 m.
And you can walk around - looking for the animal - without any thoughts about being attacked.

I don`t know your experience concerning dangerous game - but we was told: Shoot until your guns is empty.

And when you find it "stone-dead" - you shoot him again.