Author Topic: 338 win mag and Dangerous game Hunting (Read 26218 times)

nasem · « **on:** May 08, 2006, 01:56:55 PM »

I know the legal limit for african DG is 375 (minimum).....My question is, has anyone seen or heard how effective a 338 win mag is on dangerous game (lions / cape buff / even elephants) ?

I belive you can load up the 338 up to 300 grain bullets. and we all know its defenetly got the power to knock down anything.

Bascially, Im just trying to underestand the full potential of this round. Im sure JJhack has some input

Syncerus · « **Reply #1 on:** May 09, 2006, 08:35:36 AM »

There was an article written about 15 years ago in one of the Gun Annuals about hunting in Mozambique with the .338 Win Mag and the .425 Westley Richards. The .338 was used on buffalo, and the .425 was for elephant. It was an entertaining article and the author indicated that the .338 really slammed the buffalo. He was using the 250 gr bullets, as I recall.

Syncerus

JJHACK · « **Reply #2 on:** May 09, 2006, 01:48:15 PM »

Just speaking from my own opinion, and not regarding any laws or common practice.

The dangerous game animals need diameter more then anything else. Free flowing blood trails have such a great importance when following up Dangerous game that is going to do everything within its power to get even with you.

I don't care about SD, BC, ME, none of that matters as much as being able to see and follow blood at a comfortable walk while also being able to look ahead for the final encounter with the animal you have just shot.

You can load up the 338 to be a very powerful rifle. You can also load up a 300 mag and a 300/378 mag with 250 grain bullets going much faster then the 338 and with far more muzzle energy. That however is not relevent to the "smack" delivered from a slower bullet with greater diameter.

I don't care what bullet you use from a 338 it will never be a 375HH. I don't care what bullet and load you use in a 375HH it will never be a 416, nor will the 416 of any flavor be a 458 Lott. There is a reason why the diameter of 375 or 9mm is the minimum size bullet. It's the diamater and bullets weight that gets the job done with authority, not the velocity.

Hope this makes sense to you folks.

nasem · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2006, 02:33:06 PM »

Oh I totally agree with you JJ. I was not refering to "fast moving bullets".... those are somewhat useless in dangerous game hunting.

I was refering to the ability of the 338 WM to open up inside game. Have you ever taken a DG animal with a 338 (or know someone who does it with 100% satisfaction)

JJHACK · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2006, 04:12:36 PM »

The Majority of really dangerous game experience with 338's has been with browm bears when I was a guide in AK.

The Comment I coined after many years of seeing and hearing all the folks using various guns was this:

The 338 is just right, and the 375HH is Just in case

I think that about sums up my feelings to this day. Do I know anyone who is 100% satisfied with the 338 on DG............Nope, not even close. I know very few that are 100% satisfied with the 375HH!

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2006, 09:01:11 PM »

Heck, there's probably a small number out there that would'nt be happy with a howitzwer!!

GEMSBUCK · « **Reply #6 on:** May 12, 2006, 02:32:50 AM »

I read alot about how some consider a 9.3x62 a good buff gun but it moves a 250gr bullet @2400 while a 338WM moves a 250gr bullet @2700...when will some learn it it placement of that bullet on the first shot that counts the most? You have hired a PH to carry the heavy rifle let him/her earn their $.

JJHACK · « **Reply #7 on:** May 12, 2006, 03:43:49 AM »

I've been doin this all my adult life and have never carried my hunters rifle as part of my "job". The days of gun bearers have been gone since TR was there hunting.

It's not only about shot placement. That is critical, but the lack of power and diameter cannot be replaced with accuracy only. As an extreme example placing your shot perfectly with a .223 should be all that matters. When in fact we all no that is not a functional plan. Killing game is easy, folding it or stunning it to prevent movement for additional shots is far more involved. There is a thread here with a photo of me holding the heart of a buffalo shot dead center. That bull went a hella long way after that yet it was absolutely perfect shot placement. It was shot with my handloads using a 300 grain Swift Aframe that exited the off side. The Blood trail was fair due to the diameter. Smaller diameter may not have provided the same comfort level while tracking and follow up was taking place.

There have been hundreds of thousands of dangerous game killed over the years in Southern Africa, there have been countless experts and managers of game involved over all this time. They have concluded in some cases independant of one another that the 375/9mm diamater is the minimum to use for a dangerous thick skinned animal. With the last 15 years as a PH there myself I have no reason to second guess that opinion from what I have seen personally.

I have seen plenty of big dangerous animals shot multiple times with that choice, including Brown bears. I would never willingly and knowingly choose anything less if it were my dangerous game hunt. It is however your money, safety, and time should you choose otherwise.

GEMSBUCK · « **Reply #8 on:** May 12, 2006, 07:34:32 AM »

JJ by carry the heavy rifle I meant the Lott or a 577NE or such surely didn't mean you carry the client's rifle. Also there is a vast difference in a 338WM and a 223, you're trying to adapt my shot placement theory to your argument is foolish at BEST!
With today's handloads/bullets the old 375H&H has nothing over the 338WM..I think you know that but would rather argue than anything else.

JJHACK · « **Reply #9 on:** May 12, 2006, 01:09:19 PM »

With this comment my friend

"With today's handloads/bullets the old 375H&H has nothing over the 338WM..I think you know that but would rather argue than anything else"

I not only dont' want to argue this, but no longer care to even discuss it with you. It takes two people with some level of experience and education to have a debate, and right now there is only one with this qualification so we cannot move forward.

This opinion is not mine alone, but that of countless game managers, biologists, professional hunters and law makers throughout Africa. Take this argument up with them, odds are far greater they will change the law with your opinion, then you being able to sell this idea to me!

nasem · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2006, 12:24:11 PM »

I can underestand both of your arguments (GEMSBUCK & JJhack)

GEMSBUCK ~ is absoloutly correct, a heart shot from a 338 WM will stop any DG the same way a 375 h&h will. No question about that

however

JJhack ~ is also absoloutly correct also in wanting to use a minimum of a 375 h&h on DG. Im no DG hunter whatsoever, but, apparently when hunting in Africa, blood trail is the key. A small diameter bullet does not give good blood trail like a big diameter bullet. I think thats why they make rules like wanting a 375 as an absoloute minimum, its because of the blood trails. And that makes perfect sence, Those darn 1000+ buffalos don't freaking die instantly at a heart shot, man that scary.

JJHACK · « **Reply #11 on:** May 15, 2006, 04:41:49 PM »

Well, I suppose we will just have to differ on this topic. I don't agree that a 338 placed exactly the same as a 375HH will kill equally. My years of experience seeing both used in similiar situations on the same game leaves me with a pretty big difference between the two.

I suppose a guy with a 300 win mag that has it loaded to the max can assume it's the equal of a 338. After all both bullets placed in the same spot will kill equally............. right?

Then the guy with the 7mm ultra mag, or STW can also assume that his gun loaded to the max will equal a 300 magnum

Which leaves us with the guy shooting a 257 weatherby thinking his rifle will be equal with similiar shot placement to the 7mm magnum.

We could keep going this way but I am sure with this explanation you can see there are differences in these cartridges and nothing you can do with the smaller one will equal the bigger one. Many people have this misconception trying to justify what they already have or to try and convince themselves what the believe is actually true or correct.

Sorry to bust the bubble here but the 375HH with a 350 grain bullet at a max load is not a 416mag, nor is the 416 with a 400 grain bullet or 450 grain bullet going to equal a 458 lott.

If this concept is lost on you guys then so be it. It's after all not my opinion you're differing with it's well accepted physics and fact here. There is again a very good reason why they have set the 375HH as a minimum level. The bottom end must be defined.

Remember too, the 375HH is not considerd the best option, or the most effective option, it's the bare minimum option. This is not a flexable area were are talking about. There is not "plus and minus" margin for error. There is only a "plus" area to move to. Nothing smaller is considered functional. Regardless of the level of powder charge or bullet weight folks might consider using. We have to consider that a 338 loaded to maximum may not work in 110deg weather as well as it did at 60deg while developing the loads.

I'm always amazed at the experts who feel so strongly about the things they post here. I think those who have seen a Brown bear shot 4-5 times with a 375HH would not consider anything less. I think those who have stood on the beach with a dead brown bear laying there and see that keg sized head would not consider anything smaller. The same can be said for a buffao, Rhino, Elephant, Hippo, Etc. It's easy to chat about what "you" think will or should work until that day when you actually see these choices perform in person.

Come back and re-visit this topic when that day comes. We will see if your opinion is still the same.

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** May 15, 2006, 06:04:59 PM »

Jim, a couple of times now you have made reference to .375/9mm. Do you mean to say 9,3mm as in the 9,3x62? Or better yet the 9,3x64 Brenneke?

JJHACK · « **Reply #13 on:** May 16, 2006, 01:38:22 AM »

There are several metric 9mm (plus) cartridges. Many are listed specific and some countries just say 9.3mm without stating the case used just the energy level needed. The end result is that a diameter is specified as the minimum level,.............and as we know that makes a huge difference to the results.

Missing the diameter in all math formulas that are used to measure killing power, energy, momentum, etc is one of the reasons people seem to think various calibers can be made equal by loading them up in speed. Which in practice is a huge error and creates this exact kind of debate.

Diameter has a huge influence on the effects of a bullet on big game. I suppose it's something that has to be witnessed to understand.

GEMSBUCK · « **Reply #14 on:** May 16, 2006, 02:11:45 AM »

well jim with your last comments on bullet diameter I can only assume you are an advocate of the 45-70 as well on buffalo,hippo, eles and such.
there is absolutely no way you are going to convince any handloader a 9.3x62 will outperform a 338WM on game animals (338wm 250gr 2600 9.3x62 250gr 2200), yet you continue to spout this dia. rubish.
yes the 9.3x62 is a great cartridge..I own 2 of them.
before you allow your ego to overcome logic what makes you think I HAVEN'T stood on the beach and in the alder slash with dead brownies at my feet and a "little" 30-06 in my hand?

Sverre A. · « **Reply #15 on:** May 16, 2006, 02:19:20 AM »

"Come back and re-visit this topic when that day comes. We will see if your opinion is still the same"

In April we shot a rhino (also a lion) with the 404 Jeffery - and 5 shots (Woodleigh 400 Solid).

He ran first to right after a hit in the heart, then he ran about 100 m to the right - and got 2 more shots - before he turned and came against us.

When the 5th shot hit him on the opposite shoulder - he fell 35 m in front of us.

In April we will travel to Zimbabwe for elephant, buffalo and hippo, and will bring with us the .404 (and a 454 Casull for a buffalo).

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** May 16, 2006, 05:17:09 AM »

Quote

there is absolutely no way you are going to convince any handloader a 9.3x62 will outperform a 338WM on game animals (338wm 250gr 2600 9.3x62 250gr 2200), yet you continue to spout this dia. rubish.

I'm a reloader, likely have been loading since before you were born but since you don't list your birthdate I can't be sure of that. I would take the 9,3x62 over the .338 Win. Mag for any use I'd have of an over .30 caliber round. I also don't know where you get your numbers. It's not hard to get 2600 fps with a 250 in the 9,3x62 and 2400 fps is do able with the 286 grain.

I'm of the school that believes that if you need more gun than the .30-06 what you need is a larger diameter bullet with more weight not a faster small one.

There is but a mere 0.009" that's nine one thousands of an inch in bullet diameter between the 9,3 and the .375. The standard bullet weight for the 9,3 is actually 286 grains NOT 250 which is a light weight for it. Push an adequate bullet (both diameter and weight) to 2400 fps and it's a proven killer. That's the formula that's been used in Africa for a lot of years.

Argue this as long as you wish BUT make sure ALL keep it to a discussion of the rounds and NOT personalities. No personal attacks or name calling. Just discuss the subject at hand.

GEMSBUCK · « **Reply #17 on:** May 16, 2006, 05:44:41 AM »

Greybeard they come from Hogden's own reloading data. I was born in 1955 and have reloaded for 30yrs. I also own both the calibers I am speaking about. And know that the 9.3x62 is considered illeagle in most Africa for DG where it is .375+.
My point is not if the 338WM is legal but rather can it with good bullets kill a cape buff and do it with authority...the answer based on first hand knowledge is a resounding yes

using 250gr Nosler Partitions CT Gold@ 2750fps, 1 shot complete passthru 20 foot tracking job! My father in 1960 used a .308 200gr @2650' in a 30-06 for a two shot kill on a 43" cape buffalo, while his PH used a 458WM on the same outing and later sold it for it's poor performance.
Would I use it on a hippo or elephant surely not but that isn't the topic here. Would I pick a 338WM loaded with anything to Zim. with the sole animals on my license cape buff? surely not I own a Lott for them and later today will own a 416 Rigby as well.

nasem · « **Reply #18 on:** May 16, 2006, 11:04:04 AM »

Quote from: JJHACK

Well, I suppose we will just have to differ on this topic. I don't agree that a 338 placed exactly the same as a 375HH will kill equally. My years of experience seeing both used in similiar situations on the same game leaves me with a pretty big difference between the two.

I suppose a guy with a 300 win mag that has it loaded to the max can assume it's the equal of a 338. After all both bullets placed in the same spot will kill equally............. right?

Then the guy with the 7mm ultra mag, or STW can also assume that his gun loaded to the max will equal a 300 magnum

Which leaves us with the guy shooting a 257 weatherby thinking his rifle will be equal with similiar shot placement to the 7mm magnum.

We could keep going this way but I am sure with this explanation you can see there are differences in these cartridges and nothing you can do with the smaller one will equal the bigger one. Many people have this misconception trying to justify what they already have or to try and convince themselves what the believe is actually true or correct.

Sorry to bust the bubble here but the 375HH with a 350 grain bullet at a max load is not a 416mag, nor is the 416 with a 400 grain bullet or 450 grain bullet going to equal a 458 lott.

If this concept is lost on you guys then so be it. It's after all not my opinion you're differing with it's well accepted physics and fact here. There is again a very good reason why they have set the 375HH as a minimum level. The bottom end must be defined.

Remember too, the 375HH is not considerd the best option, or the most effective option, it's the bare minimum option. This is not a flexable area were are talking about. There is not "plus and minus" margin for error. There is only a "plus" area to move to. Nothing smaller is considered functional. Regardless of the level of powder charge or bullet weight folks might consider using. We have to consider that a 338 loaded to maximum may not work in 110deg weather as well as it did at 60deg while developing the loads.

I'm always amazed at the experts who feel so strongly about the things they post here. I think those who have seen a Brown bear shot 4-5 times with a 375HH would not consider anything less. I think those who have stood on the beach with a dead brown bear laying there and see that keg sized head would not consider anything smaller. The same can be said for a buffao, Rhino, Elephant, Hippo, Etc. It's easy to chat about what "you" think will or should work until that day when you actually see these choices perform in person.

Come back and re-visit this topic when that day comes. We will see if your opinion is still the same.

Not trying to start an argument or anything, but what I originally said was this:
"GEMSBUCK ~ is absoloutly correct, a heart shot from a 338 WM will stop any DG the same way a 375 h&h will. No question about that"
The key word here was "heart shot"..... I never refered to the 338 as having the same stopping power as a 375 or higher even with perfect shot placement...... but what I said was that a 338 DESTROYING A HEART MUSCLE will kill just as fast as a 375 also destroying that heart muscle.

Casull · « **Reply #19 on:** May 16, 2006, 12:36:52 PM »

Quote

I'm of the school that believes that if you need more gun than the .30-06 what you need is a larger diameter bullet with more weight not a faster small one.

I thought the .338 does use a larger diameter bullet with more weight than the 30/06 :grin: The .338 is .030 inches larger than a 30-06, while a 9.3 mm is "only" .028 inches larger than a .338. The 9.3 mm has no more power than .338, but rather only a "slightly" larger diameter (based upon your comparisons of the .338 and 30-06). Accordingly, if the .338 is no better than a 30-06, even though it has upwards of 30% more muzzle energy, then the 9.3 mm cannot be any better than the .338 which has as much muzzle energy as the 9.3 mm.

Yukon Jack · « **Reply #20 on:** May 16, 2006, 12:59:41 PM »

I can't believe you guys. Here we have an African PH who has probably been in on more African game killed than all of us put together has seen alive on the hoof and you're going to argue with him on which cartridge is better for African game... his PROFESSION!??!!

Lord, help us. I don't think there's an African PH alive that would agree the 338 Win Mag is as good a DG round as the 375 H&H. Gut pile ballistics are more certain than armchair ballistics. Believe I'll listen to JJ on this one.

More importantly, why would you even care if the 338 is good DG cartridge, it's ILLEGAL to use in most African countries for that purpose anyway.

GEMSBUCK · « **Reply #21 on:** May 16, 2006, 01:19:57 PM »

YJ you need to reread this thread back where JJ stated a 9mm dia was a killing machine and I questioned how a 9.3x62 that isn't even legal in most countries as a DG caliber is soooo much better than a 338WM. Also where he made the comment "with my years of experience...." sort of assuming no one else has any experience with brown bears /338WM/375H&H/etc.. For I too have had the displeasure too often of tracking down and finishing my client's bear after they placed a poor hit due mainly because they were afraid of the caliber gun they were shooting at the time. You know the dead bear on the beach with a keg size head line.etc,etc.
you may wish to also reread where I stated I'd not pursue a buffalo with my 338WM if I stepped out of the Toyota that morning into a pile of buff dung and decided to follow up those tracks as I have other more suitable calibers for that task but if I was hunting a eland with a 338WM and aroused an old dugga boy with a bad attitude I'd use that and hopefully my PH would unleash his heavy as well.
JJ misread my original post when he thought I expected a PH to carry my gun. Then went off on a tirade about how old Teddy Roosevelt is long gone,etc.

nasem · « **Reply #22 on:** May 16, 2006, 02:49:37 PM »

Quote from: Yukon Jack

I can't believe you guys. Here we have an African PH who has probably been in on more African game killed than all of us put together has seen alive on the hoof and you're going to argue with him on which cartridge is better for African game... his PROFESSION!??!!

Lord, help us. I don't think there's an African PH alive that would agree the 338 Win Mag is as good a DG round as the 375 H&H. Gut pile ballistics are more certain than armchair ballistics. Believe I'll listen to JJ on this one.

More importantly, why would you even care if the 338 is good DG cartridge, it's ILLEGAL to use in most African countries for that purpose anyway.

I strongly think you need to read the ENTIRE post rather than just what JJhack wrote (no need to brown nose here)

No one said anything about a 338 win mag being as good as a 375 H&h oh DG. I never said that and i doubt anyone said that. But What I did say was that a 338 WM round into a heart of a buffalo (ripping it apart) would still kill that creature no different than a 375 h&h.

Yukon Jack · « **Reply #23 on:** May 17, 2006, 08:57:42 AM »

[quote="nasemI strongly think you need to read the ENTIRE post rather than just what JJhack wrote (no need to brown nose here)[/quote]
Not brown nosing, I've hunted in Africa but not with JJ. I have a few ideas for my next African hunt, and with all due respect to JJ, those hunts will be someplace besides RSA (no offensive intended, just want to give Mozambique and Tanzania a shot). Fact is, I may never hunt with JJ and have zero reason to brown nose him. He and I have locked horns before here at GBO, but the fact remains, JJ has more experience with African game, including African dangerous game, than all of these armchair bwana wannabees, which if you haven't hunted what you are arguing about, is just that.

How many PH's use a 338? How many use a 9.3x62? Several that I'm aware of in Zim! How many use a 375? Many more. How many use something larger? Probably the majority.

Fact is, JJ has to put his professional integrity, his life and his clients' lives on the line everytime he steps of the vehicle in dangerous game country. The potential for disaster is there. When hunting those areas, I believe JJ uses a 458 Lott. Fair enough. However, between the choices in this thread, based on what JJ has witnessed, plus countless other professionals, well... the argument between the 9.3's and 375 and 338 is just a silly one for those that haven't been "amoung the beasts".

Yukon Jack · « **Reply #24 on:** May 17, 2006, 09:00:06 AM »

I'm outta this thread, just ridiculous for armchair African dangerous game hunters to argue with an actual African PH about what is what.

Syncerus · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2006, 09:58:05 AM »

I'm not an African PH, but I play one on TV ...

Syncerus

Snowman366 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 19, 2006, 05:23:09 AM »

Quote from: GEMSBUCK

.....what makes you think I HAVEN'T stood on the beach and in the alder slash with dead brownies at my feet and a "little" 30-06 in my hand?

Because you display all the indicators of someone who has a penchant for technical data, but does most of his hunting in his imagination...?

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #27 on:** May 28, 2006, 10:08:41 AM »

Ah, how fragile is human communication?!!

Prebanpaul · « **Reply #28 on:** September 03, 2006, 02:50:14 PM »

WOW I REALLY ENJOY THIS THREAD, IT MAKES ME PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN. WERE ALL ALOUD TO BE OPINIONATED BUT MAN I HAVE TO THROW MY TWO SENSE OUT HERE. HERE YOU GO. I AM A NEW RELOADER BEEN DOING FOR TWO YEARS. I AM A HUNTER WHO HAS NOT HUNTED MUCH DO TO INCOME. I NOW HAVE THE MEANS TO START TAKING HUNTS AND TO HAVE THE RIGHT RIFLES BUILT FOR THEM. I WILL MAKE SEVERAL POINTS HERE AND THEN BE DONE.

THE GUY THAT SAID I WILL STICK WITH THE PH OPINION THAT HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR YEARS, WELL ASK A NASCAR RACE DRIVER WHAT THE BEST CAR IS AND ONE SAYS THE FORD AND THE OTHER SAYS THE CHEVY. ASK ANY PROFESSIONAL WHAT THEIR OPINION IS OVER THERE AND YOU WILL GET 20 ANSWERS. THE GUY THAT BELIEVES THE FIRST THING HE HERES SCARES ME. TO THE PH THAT IS NOTHING AGAINST YOU, JUST A STATEMENT.

NOW MY POINT ABOUT A BIGGER SLOWER BULLET IS BETTER, THAT I HAVE TO SMILE ABOUT-- YOU TAKE MY 45-70 TO SHOOT A CAPE WITH AND I WILL TAKE MY 416 LAZZERONI AND LETS SEE WHO DOES BETTER. HELL FOR THAT MATTER I WILL TAKE MY 308 WARBIRD. IT WILL OUT PERFORM IT HANDS DOWN. AND I HAVE TO QUESTION SOMEONES IDEAS WHEN THEY SAY BIGGER SLOWER IS BETTER. AND YOUR A PH SO THEN YOU HAVE A 600 NITRO EXPRESS THAT YOU CARRY AROUND. I MEAN THIS IS YOUR TRADE AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE TOOLS SO WHY NOT HAVE THE BEST RIGHT. OR DID YOU PICK THE FASTER SMALLER BULLET.

THIS IS THE POINT THAT I WANT TO GET OFF, THE 338 WITH THE RIGHT BULLET WILL KILL ANY DANGEROUS GAME ON THE FACE OF THIS PLANET. SHOT PLACEMENT IS KEY. IF IT CAN GO WRONG IT WILL. I COULD DO A HEART LUNG SHOT ON A CAPE WITH A 50 BMG AND IT MAY RUN OFF. PROBABLY NOT. IF I SHOOT A CAPE IN THE HEAD WITH A 338 IT MAY RUN OFF. PROBABLY NOT. SHOT PLACEMENT IS KEY TO KILLING ANY THING. SO THE ANSWER TO THE TREAD IS THIS YES 338 IS A GOOD CHOICE TO SHOOT A STANDING STILL DG. IT IS ILLEGAL SO DONT DO IT. BIGGER FASTER BULLETS ARE BETTER FOR WHEN NEWTONS LAW KICKS IN AND OR THE BIG NASTY IS RUNNING AT YOU.

PAUL SMILE THIS SHOULD STIRR UP SOME THINGS.

ANACONDA45 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 07, 2006, 04:43:28 PM »

to prebanpaul: I like the 45-70/416 comparison, the outcome may be closer than you would imagine, but the 45-70 would for sure outperform your 308 Warbird pretty bad on big animals, with hot loads such as buffalo bore, or grizzly ammo, or garrett ammo. Three of the fastest elk kills I have ever seen were with 45-70s, knocked down instantly and I have seen many hit in the same places as those three with various 300 mags run sometimes a hundred yards+, and have seen them hit with alot of small mags up to and including 300s that did not even act like they were hit at all for several seconds, although I could see the actual impact of the bullet on the hide. Not a difference between a 300 mag and 45-70 on deer like on elk, so I imagine as animals get bigger and tougher like a cape buffalo there would be more of a difference. Before I get flammed, I like 300s, they are better all around calibers than a 45-70. I like the 338WMag also, I have used it alot, I think that extra .030 bullet and extra weight does make it do better than the 300s on bigger than deer animals. Never had a 9.3 but I can see how it could do better on really large game than a 338, even if it was the 9.3X62mm version. As far as the 600 Nitro goes, everyone has limits to what the can handle, no matter how much time you spend practicing and how much money you spend on ammo and components, being a PH would not change that. I am sure he carries what he is best with and has the most confidence with.