Author Topic: .17 wild cats?  (Read 2036 times)

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Offline .270

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.17 wild cats?
« on: May 09, 2006, 12:45:51 AM »
we already have the 17m2,17hmr and the 17 remington. Does somebody have a 17 based on the 22 hornet case. seems to me this would be a fun one for sure! I'd like to see it in a factory gun it would be a keeper :grin:

Offline Reed1911

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.17 wild cats?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2006, 02:14:50 AM »
Yes, there are several .17's based on the .22 Hornet. To be honest there are .17's based on just about every possible case within reason, and some that are beyond reason (.17-250 for example).
Ron Reed
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Offline Encore_Shooter

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17's
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2006, 04:26:39 PM »
Just wanted to name 2 that i have which are, .17 Ackley Bee (based on the 218 Bee case) and the .17 Jet ( based on the .22 Rem Jet case). And may end up with a .17 Ackley Hornet before all is said and done.    
                                                              Nelson

Offline IOWA DON

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.17 wild cats?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2006, 03:55:47 PM »
I have two 17 Hornet barrels for the old TCR-87 break-over single shots. One is a stainless Shilen epoxied inside a 10-ga barrel and the other is a light-weight 30-06 barrel lined with a Shilen stainless 17 barrel. The heavy one will shoot 5/8-inch or better groops at 100 yards and the light-weight one will shoot 3/4-inch or better groups at 100 yards. They both shoot 20-gr Hornadays at 3650 fps and 15-gr Bergers at 3950 fps. Niether barrel has ever had any copper fouling, and I have read that a .17 Hornet barrel will last for over 10,000 rounds. I burned out two barrels on a .17 Remington in less than 1000 rounds. That is, they were still accurate for a few shots, but got severly copper fouled very quickly after the throats got rough so I ended up doing more cleaning than shooting. I doubt that a .17 Hornet is nearly as good of a coyote gun as a .17 Remington. However, it is great on fox, feral cats and smaller stuff. With the 15-gr Berger hollow points it is probably the safest rifle for shooting at animals in trees as the bullets have a terrible balistic coeficient and slow down very fast. I have got two coyotes with the .17 Hornet and both died where shot, but neither was much over 100 yards away. I will always have one and consider it a much more useful cartridge than the .17 Remington. It also has a lot more thump and less wind drift than the .17 HMR. On days with some wind where my 17 HMR shoots terrible groups the .17 Hornets are still very accurate. And another surprising thing. On a windy day my 17 Reminton shot terrible groups. They would not only get larger horizontaly, but also vertically. The .17 Hornet groups get somewhat larger horizontaly when ther is wind, but not vertically. Explain that? If the 20-gr bullet is sighted in 1.0 inch high at 100 yards it is less than 1.0 inch low at 200 yards. Only critisizm is that head-shots are required for squirrels.

Offline Reed1911

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.17 wild cats?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2006, 11:16:29 PM »
Wow! I take it you were running your 17R close to max to burn it out that quick!

The .17 Mach IV is also a nice little round, very close ballisticly to the .17 Rem, but much more efficent and longer lasting. It is based on the .221 Fireball case, necked down and blown out. I do not have any of the smaller .17's but I'm sure I will in the future. They are just so damn fun. I've been eyeing the .14's as well, only time will tell.
Ron Reed
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Offline IOWA DON

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.17 wild cats?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2006, 11:12:29 AM »
NO! I loaded the .17 Remington to 3,900 fps witht the 25 grain Hornaday HP's. I think it is possible to get another 200 fps. When the first barrel was new (factory 700 Rem), I could shoot it at least 50 times without cleaning if I did not get the barrel hot, and it was accurate (1/2-inch 3-shot groups at 100 yards). If I got the barrel hot prarie dog shooting it started fouling and missing 100 yard prarie dogs. Anyway, it paid to not let it get hot. After approaching 1,000 rounds the throat area was getting very rough. Accuracy was still good for a few rounds, but it took a long time to clean. The first barrel was replaced free by Remington because of some metal problem for which they had a recall, a safety issue. I assumed the first barrel eroded so fast because of the problem with the barrel metal. However, the second barrel eroded as fast and maybe a little faster. I still think a .17 Reminton is a good caliber for a purpose like shooting preditors and saving the furs. However, barrel life was too short for me for a prarie dog rifle. Maybe a good stainless Shilen barrel would have lasted longer?

Offline Reed1911

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.17 wild cats?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2006, 11:15:53 AM »
I agree that it sounds like a barrel problem
Ron Reed
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Offline IOWA DON

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.17 wild cats?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2006, 01:33:50 PM »
Also, forgot what I wanted to mention about bullets. In the past when about the only commonly available bullet in .17 caliber was the Hornaday 25-grain hp, I don't think the small .17 widcats were practical. That bullet performed well out to 200 yards in a .17 Remington from which it could be given a velocity of 4,000 fps. However, the velocity in a .17 Hornet would be much slower so expansion past 100 yards would not be as good as wanted. The new 20-grain Hornaday Vmax bullets can be loaded to 3,650 fps in the .17 Hornet and they expand better at a far lower velocity because ther is a hugh hollowpoint under that plastic tip. Anyway, I think the 20-grain Vmax bullet has finally made the .17 Hornet a practical cartridge.

Offline iiranger

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Re: .17 wild cats?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2006, 07:40:52 AM »
FYI Mr. Ackley put out a two volume set of books, with updates until he retired circa 1985. In his books, available at eabco.com, sinclairintl.com, eabay, etc, he lists a large number of .17 wildcats. Even some .14's. And there have been a number of "advances" since his loss. .20 and .19. I am sure the .17 Hornet is listed. He seemed to prefer the .17 Bee (on the .218 WCF case) for slightly more powder capacity and possibly slightly sturdier case... At closer ranges these things kill, but the tiny/light bullets lose energy fast and blow at distance. LUCK.  :)

Offline Catfish

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Re: .17 wild cats?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2006, 03:01:23 AM »
I have 2 .17 cal. Wildcats, the .17 Ackley Hornet and a .17-223. The .17-223 is so close to the .17 Rem. it`s really not worht building one but I found a T/C Contender barrel cheap. The .17 AH is also on a Contender frame and it is one of my all time favorite rounds. I load 19 gn. Calhoon bullets and push them to 3,500 fps. I`ve seen guys claiming more but this is max. velosity in mine with H-4227 powder. The Bullberry barrel has fired alot of groups under 1/4 in. at 100 yrds. and shoots point blank to abt. 290 yrds. The bad thing is this round can go over presure with just afew 1/10`s of a grain increase in powder. 10.4 gns. show no signs of presure in mine, but 10.6 gns. is getting dangeriously close to bad things happening.

Offline Datil

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Re: .17 wild cats?
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2006, 01:41:48 AM »
 You people need to look at die makers catologs, see the bumber 17 wildcats
 they Make. Redding makes a bunch Can not find my catolog or I would count thim!
 Marv.

 P.S. RCBS just has 14 different dies list for 17 wildcats in Huntington catolog.

Offline 260 AAR

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Re: .17 wild cats?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2006, 10:26:28 AM »
I built my 17 Ack Hornet on a Win Mod 43 action. TOO MUCH FUN!!!!

Aloha, Mark
Hawaii No Ka Oe!

Offline tera

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Re: .17 wild cats?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2006, 10:10:33 PM »
FYI Mr. Ackley put out a two volume set of books, with updates until he retired circa 1985. In his books, available at eabco.com, sinclairintl.com, eabay, etc, he lists a large number of .17 wildcats. Even some .14's. And there have been a number of "advances" since his loss. .20 and .19. I am sure the .17 Hornet is listed. He seemed to prefer the .17 Bee (on the .218 WCF case) for slightly more powder capacity and possibly slightly sturdier case... At closer ranges these things kill, but the tiny/light bullets lose energy fast and blow at distance. LUCK.  :)
I me rank narrates that to form you 17 Bee on case of 218 WCF (wants you can be to say 218 Bee) I read article of that 17 Bee is to form case 221 Remington on.

I me rank narrates that to form you 17 Bee on case of 218 WCF (wants you can be to say 218 Bee) I read article of that 17 Bee is to form case 221 Remington on.

It risks having of problem because the dimensions of cases 218 wcf (218 Bee) is 221 Remington the step even?

What it case is most to appropriate for the forming 218 or 221?
Mercie

Offline Reed1911

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Re: .17 wild cats?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2006, 11:49:37 PM »
Quote
I me rank narrates that to form you 17 Bee on case of 218 WCF (wants you can be to say 218 Bee) I read article of that 17 Bee is to form case 221 Remington on.

I me rank narrates that to form you 17 Bee on case of 218 WCF (wants you can be to say 218 Bee) I read article of that 17 Bee is to form case 221 Remington on.

It risks having of problem because the dimensions of cases 218 wcf (218 Bee) is 221 Remington the step even?

What it case is most to appropriate for the forming 218 or 221?

 ???

Not sure I'm reading that correct, but I think you are asking if the .218 Bee case is used to make .221 brass or are asking if the .221 die is used to neck down the .218 bee brass. The answer to both is no. If I'm fully off base on what you are asking please re-phrase it or possibly someone else understands the question a bit better.
Ron Reed
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Offline iiranger

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patterns... look for them...
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2006, 07:31:21 AM »
FYI Mr. Ackley put out a two volume set of books, with updates until he retired circa 1985. In his books, available at eabco.com, sinclairintl.com, eabay, etc, he lists a large number of .17 wildcats. Even some .14's. And there have been a number of "advances" since his loss. .20 and .19. I am sure the .17 Hornet is listed. He seemed to prefer the .17 Bee (on the .218 WCF case) for slightly more powder capacity and possibly slightly sturdier case... At closer ranges these things kill, but the tiny/light bullets lose energy fast and blow at distance. LUCK.  :)
I me rank narrates that to form you 17 Bee on case of 218 WCF (wants you can be to say 218 Bee) I read article of that 17 Bee is to form case 221 Remington on.

I me rank narrates that to form you 17 Bee on case of 218 WCF (wants you can be to say 218 Bee) I read article of that 17 Bee is to form case 221 Remington on.

It risks having of problem because the dimensions of cases 218 wcf (218 Bee) is 221 Remington the step even?

What it case is most to appropriate for the forming 218 or 221?
Mercie


The .218 Bee is on the smaller lever action rim from cowboy days, 1800s. First cartridges were .32/20 and .25/20. Winchester made .32/20s in the lever 73. The .25/20 version got smokelss powder and necked to .224 in the early 1900s, after WW I, and I think the rifle was model 65 (Winchester of course. Marlin was the #2 lever gun...)  Poor accuracy. In single shots, quite popular.

The .221 is based on the same rimless head as the .222 Remington. As is the .222 Remington magnum, the .223 Winchester / 5.56 NATO, etc. The .221 is shortened for use in the shorter barrel of the XP 100 pistol. All this has taken place since 1950. You could make .221's from .223 brass with ALOT of work. Both Huntington.com and ch4d.com sell "form dies" for this kind of work.

If you have a reloading manual--very cheap on ebay, most anyway, give the dimensions of the cases and you could easily tell that the body of a .218 is much smaller than the body of the .221 and forming one from the other would be almost impossible in the home. In the well equiped factory... just expensive. luck

Offline elk_chaser1

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Re: .17 wild cats?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2006, 04:40:38 PM »
I'm currently building a 17-222 from a barreled action that was my Dad's.  He never did anything with it, and now I have it.  Should be similar to a .17 Remington, but much easier on the barrel throat and won't have nearly as much powder fouling.

I have read the Remington is going to offer the 17MachIV as a factory round starting in January '07.  Haven't been able to confirm with Rem., but that is what I understand.