Author Topic: Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,  (Read 1335 times)

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Offline teddy12b

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Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,
« on: May 14, 2006, 12:49:38 PM »
Hello,
         I have always wanted to get a semi auto in 308.  Particularly a FAL, G3, or AR type of rifle.  I'd like semi auto but also sub MOA at 100 yards.  I'd also like to not go broke in the process, (the less expensive, the better)!

Does this rifle exist?  If so what do you all recommend?

Offline lostsniper308

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Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2006, 06:34:04 PM »
aside from the high end DPMS .308 ARs and similar brands, its virtually impossible to find an out of the box MOA semi-auto. the Saiga(sporter AKs) rifles .308 cal are $400 range but don't expect MOA more like 3MOA@100yrds.
B Co. 1-22Inf 1st BCT 4th Infantry Division
OIF 08-09 out of the army now

Offline teddy12b

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Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2006, 12:58:59 PM »
I would settle for MOA shooting rifles as well.  I've seen a lot of the FAL rifles and G3 types and those would be my primary interest.  If it doesn't work out oh well though.

Offline lostsniper308

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Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2006, 02:25:27 AM »
i could see a G3 at least coming close to MOA, after all there are designated marksman G3s out there, though but heres a good article about the FAL scope mount
http://surplusrifle.com/reviews/tapcofalscopemount/index.asp if the target on the bottom of the page is 100yrds then thats MOA i belive
B Co. 1-22Inf 1st BCT 4th Infantry Division
OIF 08-09 out of the army now

Offline S.S.

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Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2006, 04:19:34 AM »
An FN-Fal is an excellent choice.
A guy I know put one together from a parts kit
he bought out of the Shotgun news and it is a great shooter.
I in turn have an HK91 that I would put up against any rifle
made today. The G3 is almost an exact copy so I assume the potential is there for them to be just as accurate.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline teddy12b

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Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2006, 04:49:58 AM »
So then, with all things considered what would be my best choice?  A FAL parts kit?  Or a factory rifle, maybe a G3?

Offline lostsniper308

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Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2006, 02:58:45 PM »
that depends on type preference and budget which affects just which one you'll buy in the end.
B Co. 1-22Inf 1st BCT 4th Infantry Division
OIF 08-09 out of the army now

Offline S.S.

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Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2006, 07:45:43 AM »
You will probably come out a bit cheaper building a kit.
I have found that G3 parts are a little easier to come by.
You can get surplus 20 round Aluminium Mags.(G3) out of the Shotgun news sometimes for less than $4.00 a piece. Not so with an FAL..
I also believe that you can get a wider selection of "accessories"
For the G3 if you are interested in such things.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline 1911crazy

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Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2006, 03:31:10 PM »
Go for the Russian Izhmash Saiga Sporter in 308win/nato with the synthetic stock with the 16" barrel.  I'm shooting 1 1/2" groups on a good day using south african 308 ball ammo.  I'm sure it can tighten up even better with better ammo.  I have heard nothing but great things about the saiga's accuracy at 200yds, 400yds and even 500yds.  

Its a whole different gun too if you lube it up with moly on the bolt carrier, bolt, frame rails, gas piston and gas tube and the trigger sear, it smooths out the trigger and lessens the trigger pull too.  The saiga will cycle faster and smoother too. I get my moly at; www.mcmaster.com  just do a search for moly anti-seize and halfway down the page is the premium moly and it has a higher percentage of moly in it(%).  They will send you TS-70 moly from www.ts-moly.com  thats the stuff i use.

I just found out the saiga synthetic stock 308 sporter w/ 16" & 22" barrels is no longer on the import list too so what ever is out in the dealers racks thats it.  The only other 308 saiga sporter has the wood stock and i figure thats soon to go too.  The only saiga left in 308win will be the model 100.  I figure its because of the people converting them in ak looking rifles.  The 308 saiga is very affordable at $359 too.  It has a chrome lined bore and chamber too and the dependability and reliability of an AK47 in a sporter wrapper.  There is no other 308 that can match the performance of this new saiga 308.

I have a spanish cetme and its one of the smoothest 308's i have ever shot but its the funky charging handle that sucks.  Its very accurate too. There were many problems with these too with the rollers on the bolt carrier,  front site being twisted off center so it shoots to the right or the left and the rear site needing adjustment too.  I was very lucky i got a decent one while it shoots a little off at 100yds i can fix it very easily its only 2" off.  I don't think its worth the $399 i paid for it and i should of went after an FAL but there a lot more $$ than i wanted to spend.

The other 308 is a French MAS Commando Rifle in 308nato.  These can be found for $250 to $325.  These were converted by Century arms bucthers and some worked great and some had problems.  I have two and we have hammered them with south african 308 ball ammo with no problems at all.  I heard there were leaks on the gas tube which is an easy fix if you get one that needs fixin.

A word of caution too these military 308nato semi-auto's were designed for "nato" / "ball" ammo because its a lower pressure round than the 308win ammo is too.  There were also designed for a 147gr/150gr bullet too.  I read were some were warned not to shoot bullet weights past 168gr too in the military semi auto's too.  I only use CCI #34 nato primers and IMR4895 powder its the correct burn rate for the cycling of the military semi-auto's.  The CCI #34 primers have thicker walls for the floating firing pins on the military semi-auto's that have them.  Also we have to know what military semi auto has fluted chambers too thats made for less pressure on extraction and the thicker walled case of the nato ammo.  This is were we get into trouble by using the thinner brass case in a fluted chamber some think its an out of battery firing but the thinner wall case can split in the fluted chamber with the higher pressure 308win ammo.  I have seen cetme's in two pieces and its not pretty.

Offline 1911crazy

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Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2006, 09:43:02 AM »
With the Saiga's the Russians at Izhmash have found out the two american calibers of 308win/nato and 223 rem are more accurate than the russian calibers of 7,62x39 & 5,45x39 in the saiga's.  They think its because of the straighter walled case(brass) that is making them more accurate.

The Russians at Izhmash did focus on making the saiga more accurate than its ak brothers are too and it is very accurate. With my very first saiga in 308 with its $307 otd price tag its hard to beat. Its affordable and accurate plus it has the battle proven track record of the AK47 design too. I have also heard its more accurate than the remington semi auto too from the guys who own both. With the russian ak quality and chrome lined bore and chamber I don't think we'll ever have to replace the saiga in our lifetime.  And if we use moly the bolt carrier/bolt, receiver and gas system parts should last just as long as the barrel does too.  This is probably the best buy out there right now for a 308 and 223 rifle.  And if you want a sporter in 7,62x39 its the one you want too.

Don't sell these new russian izhmash saiga's short until you shoot one too. Your buying a Brand new Russian Izhmash AK47 in a sporter wrapper called Saiga.

Offline BUSTER51

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Need help finding a new 308 semi auto, sub moa rifle,
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2006, 01:28:08 PM »
My JLD G3 type rifle will shoot sub MOA with Fed gold match 168 grain ammo all day long .it was how ever one of the first 100 rifles they made.