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Author Topic: 35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?  (Read 1655 times)

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Offline RackWrangler

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« on: May 15, 2006, 04:12:44 PM »
Ok guys, If reloads were not an option which would you choose as your only "big bore" rifle?

I am looking for a Handi barrel that I could use for black bear, hogs, elk, and whitetail.

I am not worried about recoil.

Thanks in advance,
RackWrangler
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Offline stimpylu32

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2006, 04:24:19 PM »
The 45/70 hands down has more factory loads than any of the others , from 300 gr. to 500 gr. cast and jacketed .

That would be my choice and i have both the 450 and the 45/70 .
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Offline MSP Ret

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2006, 04:24:38 PM »
simple answer, if no reloading involved, the 45-70, far and away. More options for factory ammo and will do everything you need, as well as more widespread availability of factory ammo. And by the way I have both a .35 Whelen and a 45/70 in Handi's, and as much as I love my .35, if I had to choose only one with no reloading for the game you mention, I would easily choose the 45/70....<><.... :grin:
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Offline quickdtoo

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2006, 04:35:47 PM »
Yup, what they said!!! A 2003 .45-70 factory ammo list...

$41.54 250g @ 2200fps, 2687fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
$??.?? 300g @ 1810fps, 2182fpe (Remington @ Remington web site)
$20.39 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Winchester JHP, Natchez)
$20.60 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Federal, Natchez)
$29.81 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Winchester Partition Gold, Natchez)
$22.84 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, HP (Conley)
$44.66 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
$32.50 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Nosler Partition (Protected Point) (Conley)
$41.54 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
$25.08 350g @ 1970fps, 3017fpe, Hornady JFP (Conley)
$34.89 350g @ 1800fps, 2519fpe, BCSP (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$39.99 350g @ 2150fps, 3593fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$24.99 400g @ 1250fps, 1388fpe (Black Hills @ Cabelas)
$44.66 400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
$54.46 400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Swift A-Frame Flat Point (Conley)
$12.99 405g @ 1350fps, 1639fpe (PMC @ Cabelas)
$18.99 405g @ 1100fps, 1088fpe (Ultramax @ Cabelas)
$22.50 405g @ 1325fps, 1579fpe, RNFP (Conley)
$18.99 405g @ 1330fps, 1590fpe (Remington @ Cabelas)
$24.50 405g @ ??? (Winchester @ Cascade Ammunition web site)
$35.57 405g @ 1700fps, 2600fpe, FPPE (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$22.99 405g @ 1900fps, 3247fpe, JSP (Conley)
$39.99 405g @ 2000fps, 3597fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$41.99 405g @ ??? (Obsolete Ammunition @ Cabelas)
$50.00 420g @ 1850fps, 3200fpe (Garrett)
$39.99 430g @ 1925fps, 3537fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$34.50 460g @ 1650fps, 2780fpe, HC (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$41.99 500g @ ??? (Obsolete Ammunition @ Cabelas)
$52.99 500g @ 1625fps, 2931fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$50.00 540g @ 1550fps, 2880fpe (Garrett)
$180.00 500g @ 1530fps, 2600fpe (Speer AGS Tungsten, Garrett)
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Offline DakotaElkSlayer

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2006, 04:49:29 PM »
I would definately go with the Whelen.  Sure, if you walk into a store you will only be able to find Rem 200 PSP, but you will probably only be able to find, at most stores, weak trapdoor .45-70 loads.
  The beauty of modern society is that we are no longer limited by that.  All one has to do is look online and you can find all sorts of small ammo manufacturers.
 http://www.cpcartridge.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_72

The whelen has the advantage over the other two since it is easier to shoot accurately at longer distance than the other two because if flies flatter.  A .45-70 is super accurate at long range, but only if you shoot it enough to compensate for its trajectory; kinda' spendy to do if you are buying all your ammo.

I think this extra range would be a big deal to you if you plan on spending the $$$ on a western elk hunt...

Jim
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Offline nomosendero

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2006, 05:25:00 PM »
It would be good to have more info:
(1) Do you have other barrels for possible longer ranges like 30-06 or 280?
(2) What ranges will you be shooting the Whitetails & Elk? Will all of the Deer hunting be in woods or will you later hunt Whitetail/Mule Deer in
Farm Country or the Western Plains? Will the Elk hunting be in thicker country like some of the Elk Ranges in the Left Coast States, Black Timber in the Rockies, more open or mixed open & Black Timber like an area I hunted in Colorado?
It is hard to answer your question without knowing this.

My favorite round of the 3 that you mentioned is the 45-70. I currently own a 450 Ultra because it was a super deal, but I will be getting a 45-70 barrel for my other receiver. These 2 rounds kick butt out to 200 yards if you have a good load & you have it sighted properly & in some cases
maybe a little further.
However, if you may be shooting out to 300 yards, the 35 Whelen can do this if you have worked up a very good load & if your load is really good, your rifle groups good & if you are good with it & know the range you
maybe can go a hair further.
My personal choice if all future opportunities are unclear & I wanted to
hunt said animals anywhere, I would buy the 45-70 & have a 30-06 barrel
or 280 barrel to take along & use the barrel I need to for the situations that I would encounter.

PS  If you want me to really muddy the waters, then you could pull a Mac/Tim stunt & have a 338-06 made/rebored from a 25-06 barrel if you
want to be ready for everything with one barrel.  :grin:
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Offline RackWrangler

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2006, 05:43:20 PM »
I already have a 308 bull barrel.  And if I want, I have my 7mm mag Savage 110 bolt gun for the really long stuff.

Just looking for something to shoot under 200 yards that'll drop what it hits (if I do my part).

It seems that the 45-70 would be the best choice.

Thanks all.

RackWrangler
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Offline quickdtoo

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2006, 06:20:01 PM »
Quote from: nomosendero
PS  If you want me to really muddy the waters, then you could pull a Mac/Tim stunt & have a 338-06 made/rebored from a 25-06 barrel if you want to be ready for everything with one barrel.  :grin:


Stunt!!! I think I represent that remark!!! :-D  :-D  :-D

Tim
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Offline Mac11700

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2006, 06:43:17 PM »
Quote from: nomosendero
]My personal choice if all future opportunities are unclear & I wanted to
hunt said animals anywhere, I would buy the 45-70 & have a 30-06 barrel
or 280 barrel to take along & use the barrel I need to for the situations that I would encounter.

PS  If you want me to really muddy the waters, then you could pull a Mac/Tim stunt & have a 338-06 made/rebored from a 25-06 barrel if you
want to be ready for everything with one barrel.  :grin:


Durn Rod...you took the words right out of my mouth... :)  :)  :)

Quote
Ok guys, If reloads were not an option which would you choose as your only "big bore" rifle?


I agree with nomosendaro...since you never stated at what ranges you plan on hunting these animals at...one would tend to say you would be much better off with a longer barreled Handi to help with the velocity...and in this regard the 280 would fit the bill nicely...and they have some pretty good factory loads available..and some of the specialty reloaders have some loads that put this little Handi right up there close to the 7mm mag...I absolutly love my new extractor barrel 280...it's a tack driven rifle I won't part with..While I as many many many others would take the 45-70 hands down...it wouldn't be my first choice..It will suffice nicely on any of them if the range is under 150-200 yards...but once it goes over that...ithe trajectory comes into play significantly...and hunting Elk can include some rather longish shots...of the 3 you did mention...the 35 Whelen would be a much better choice for those shots..

As far as having a all encompassing rifle fully capable of taking what ever walks on this continent in a Handi...I fully endorse the 25-06 conversion to 338-06 A-Square..Even with it's modest amount of factory loads ..it will work wonders on these critters including the big bears..I would take it over anything mentioned so-far..including the 280...but it will cost you a rebore and chamber job to get it..and a-lot of folks don't want to spend this much to have one...If I were limited to only owning 1 Handi rifle for big game hunting...this would be my first choice....it's not a varmint gun...but I can get some 150 ULD-RBBT bullets and handload for it if I wanted to...

I'll also make a suggestion to you..think seriously of reloading for your Handi rifles..it will make your ammo selection and availability much easier for you..and depending on what caliber and loading you go for.. less costly for some of the premium loadings...

Good Luck :D

Mac
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Offline NE Hunter

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2006, 05:34:50 AM »
My pick of the 3 is the .45-70.  even the "light" trap door loads were killing game in their day and I have yet to see an animal wearing kevlar.
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Offline nomosendero

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2006, 03:24:45 PM »
The Bears here in AR. have only been wearing Kevlar for 2 years or so &
some are on Meth. & it makes it difficult with trapdoor loads, especially beyond 200 yards.   :)
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Offline Ditchdigger

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2006, 04:36:28 PM »
If the hogs in your area are like these in my area,I would go with the 35 Whelan.Don't expect a hog to drop on the spot with the 45 70 ( I've shot 3 with mine and they all ran,1 came at me) They were all 300 pds except 1. There's nothing more irratating than to have wild game come out at 250 or 300 yds. and you have a 45 70 in your hands and a 280 or 30 06 in the truck. Hogs can be very tough to kill with anything less than a neck shot. 1 small 100 pd. pig charged Warf on a hog hunt with knives,and Curdog shot it in the head with a 45 long colt,it was knocked backwards a few feet and then got up and ran off not to be found.The shoulder shots are iffy also,I have personally witnessed one that I shot with a 44 mag Super Redhawk,and the bullet bounced of the shoulder. That sounds impossible,but I have friends that have saw the same results.  Digger
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Offline Sourdough

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2006, 07:57:49 AM »
I'm torn on this one.  I love the .35 Whelen, but the 45-70 has it's attributes also.  My solution, buy a .35 Whelen, send it back and have a 45-70 barrel fitted.  Now you have the best of both worlds.  Other wise I'd go woth the Whelen.  Plenty of stopping power for anything in North Americia, with better range than the 45-70.  The .450 Marlin just kicks too hard for me.
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Offline Dillohide

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35 Whelen, 450 Marlin, or 45-70?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2006, 01:57:39 PM »
Quote
The shoulder shots are iffy also,I have personally witnessed one that I shot with a 44 mag Super Redhawk,and the bullet bounced of the shoulder. That sounds impossible,but I have friends that have saw the same results. Digger


I believe it. I shot a 300 pounder in South Texas from my deer stand last year through the shoulder at 200 yards with a max 165 grain 30-06 load. He had a bad left wheel after that but that sucker took off and ran a full semi-circle all the way back to my stand before he finally dropped 25 feet in front of me. I've heard several people say they've had bullets bounce off that shoulder and anyone who's ever cleaned and skinned one knows why.

I'd go with the 35 Whelen but got to figure it's gotta a pretty strong kick too when loaded up. I've never shot one but bigger bullet, same case as my 30-06 ... and I know the old 06 kicks.
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