Author Topic: Leverevolution??? (Read 774 times)

ihuntbucks · « **on:** May 20, 2006, 06:27:54 PM »

I've been looking at Hornady's new "Leverevolution".Seems to be a good idea;whither it will improve to the state they claim will have to be seen.I would like to load these.I don't want their factory loads,I want my own.I have been looking in the cats since these came out and can't find the bullets or the load data for them.I was wondering do they wait a long time before they put them on the market?Looks like to me,if the round is out,so should the reload material and load data.......Rick

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2006, 06:36:20 PM »

http://www.realguns.com/archives/120.htm

Read up

ihuntbucks · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2006, 06:36:22 PM »

Thanks krochus for the enlightenment.After reading the page I believe I'll pass on the reload............Rick

ricciardelli · « **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2006, 01:29:17 AM »

Another way to spell "Leverevolution" is "Gimmick" and a third way is "We Really Can't Offer Anything New Or Better, So We Are Going to Hype A Product".

Robert357 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2006, 04:00:02 PM »

I would like to add to what Steve is saying based on my personal experience.

I have a Marlin 336 in 30-30 that is pretty accurate ---if and only if I put one or at most two rounds in the rifle.

A tubular magazine loaded full is just not very accurate as it changes the barrel harmonics with each round shot. That means that the 1st round, 3rd round and 5th round go in slightly different places on the target.

This is why I limit my Marlin to one round in the chamber and one in the tubular magazine. If I so limit myself, then I can load just about any pointed ammo I want in my Marlin and have every advantage of the Leverevolution at much less cost. and no real risk with the right loading procedure.

If I am really paranoid, I could put in a magazine plug like my shotguns have, to make sure I never have more than one round in the magazine.

If I want to shoot farther out that 100 yards with my 30-30, then I want the accuracy associated with a limited amount of ammo in the tubular magazine. If I want the downrange performance of the Leverevolution, then I also want the long range accuracy as high velocity misses don't do much.

Therefore, as Steve says this is a gimmick to handloaders. To non-handloaders, it is a reasonable compromise considering that in the litigation prone society a manufacturer probably can't safely sell 30-30 rounds with sharply pointed bullets, unless they are soft like the Hornady rounds.

It is an interesting concept, but more hype than reality for handloaders.

qajaq59 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 23, 2006, 01:24:00 AM »

Even if they hype was true, and I doubt that it is, I'm not convinced there is a need for it. Round nose bullets in the 30-30 seem to have done a great job for a 100 years, so why do we suddenly need a spire point?

Plus I can just see someone in a hurry to get out of the house grabbing the wrong spire points and wrecking a rifle. Too easy to make a mistake with an odd round like that.

I think ricciardelli is correct with the word "gimmick."

Reed1911 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2006, 11:26:39 AM »

Well I'll be!

Here I thought I was the only one who could actually run a ballistic calculator and look at pure data and not see much of an improvement, much less actual field data. All I see this doing is causing some guy to think his .30-30, .35, .444, etc is now a beanfield rifle since he can load "pointy bullets".

To be honest, I have not tried the ammunition myself and all my comments are purely thought based on real world experience with other loads and not the Leverloution ammunition specificly.

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2006, 01:30:00 PM »

Quite frankly for those of us who shoot rifles, even lever action rifles, with barrels of 24+ inches the new Hornady loads are some what of a revolution. Granted in the newer M94 AE Legacy I push 130 & 150 gr bullets out of the 30-30 harder than out of my pre 64 20" carbine. I also have a 26" barreld .35 Remington and a 24" 45-70. I'm sure all the new Leverlution loads will live up to the "hype". I, for one (or two as the case may be) would like to see the bullets offered by Hornady for reloading.

I also think it was poor marketing on Winchester's part not to make the .307 and .359 available with 24" barrels ala the M64. With the ability to scope over bore in the AE frame the 160 gr SP bullet would have made the .307 a very good lever action deer rifle (note I said rifle, not carbine). Had winchester made them I would have bought them and many lever action shooters I've talked to would have also. It appears Marlin got the hint and is making some M336s with the longer barrels now. I'll be looking at those.

I think the biggest advantage is not "making the 30-30 a beanfield rifle" but in the retained energy down range. The 20" carbine M94 with proper sights and ammo is in fact a good 200 yard deer cartridge. The new ammo does flatten the trajectory (sorry but I've actually shot several factory loads over that distance (not relied on a computer program). The new Leverlution 30-30 ammo is as flat as my 130 gr Speer "Paco Kelly loads". As to accuracy with tube magazines, it has been known for years how to tune the magazine so accuracy remains consistant throughout a full load.

Yes, I look forward to reloading these new Hornadys.

Larry Gibson

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** May 24, 2006, 03:13:59 AM »

I tend to stay away from new bullets until they have been proven in the field. That takes at least two years.

ricciardelli · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2006, 04:06:03 AM »

The 20" carbine M94 is in fact a good 200 yard deer cartridge.

Really?

Questor · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2006, 04:37:06 AM »

I'm all in favor of the Leverevolution concept. If they've worked out the bullet design so that it really does expand reliably out to 200 yards, then it's a great idea. I like the handiness of the 94 carbines and see them as a good alternative to the 7.62x39 mini-14 that is also popular because it is handy.

It would be interesting to read what some westerners have to say about their use of the 30-30 lever actions and how these new developments in bullet design will affect their use of the 30-30.

I'm sure that the 30-30 flat nose bullets will work out to 200 yards, but are they really made to expand reliably at that distance? It seems to me that the bullets would be designed within the parameters of their typical use, which is to say 100 yards or less.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2006, 05:32:35 AM »

Quote from: ricciardelli

The 20" carbine M94 is in fact a good 200 yard deer cartridge.

Really?

YEP!

A bit of clever advertising that plays right into the magnum mentality.
"Turn you lever gun into a 200yd deer slayer" Well duh A 30-30 and 35rem already are, The 444 , 450 and 45-70 even longer.

What's really cool is comparing trajectory to other rounds

169gr leverroution 30-30 3.0@100 , 0.2@200 and 12.1@300 in a 20" barrel

154gr wolf sp 7.62x39 2.7@100 , 0.0@200 and 15.3" @300 foma an 18" barrel

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #12 on:** May 24, 2006, 11:07:24 AM »

Quote from: ricciardelli

The 20" carbine M94 is in fact a good 200 yard deer cartridge.

Really?

Quite. It doesn't take a 170 gr bullet to kill a deer. And it doesn't take a gawd aweful magnum to do it either.

In a 30-30 Winchester, Speer and Remington 150s and the Speer 130 gr do just fine.With decent sights or good eyes the accuracy is there. The Speer 130 at 2470 fps out of an older M94 carbine zeroed at 175 yards shoots quit flat enough for deer out to 200 yards. Or how about at 2750 fps out of a 24" M94 Legacy? The 150s with a proper zero shoot flat enough that you don't have to hold hair at 200 yards.

Questor

Not sure about "westerner' but I was raised on a cattle ranch in Oregon and have hunted most of eastern Oregon (that's a little farther west than most think when they say "westerner") high desert sage brush and mountains (Snake River - borders Hell's Canyon, Blue Mountains, Trout Creek/Oregon Mountains, coastal mountains and the High Cascades most of my life. I've killed a lot of deer and 16 elk. All but two deer and one elk were well within the range of a M94 Carbine. I think to many watch too much OLN and think all "western" hunting is at 300+ yards. Sorry but it just isn't so. Truth is, survey after survey shows (regardless of where) that 90+% of all big game are killed on the short side of 200 yards and the majority of those are killed on the short side of 100 yards. BTW; I got my M94 for my 14th birthday in '61 and still have it, use it too.

Larry Gibson

qajaq59 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 24, 2006, 11:30:04 AM »

Questor, we spent a few weeks going thru there last summer and that is gorgeous country.