7x57 and the 150 grain Sierra Gameking

[rickt300]

I have been looking for a fat feral hog to test my new load with this bullet on and found her.  She is/was a 175 pound hog and I hit her in my favorite hitting spot, just in front of the shoulder a bit below center of the neck. She was facing me angled to my left and when the bullet hit she was down with hardly a twitch. The bullet shattered the spine and exited thru the far shoulder leaving a one inch exit hole. The load is 48.0 grains of WC852 (similar to H414) in a remington case for a velocity at the muzzle of around 2700 fps. Range 80 yards.  This hog was covered in thick fat and will be good eating. I am still at a loss as to why I would need a "Premium" bullet?

[Graybeard]

I am still at a loss as to why I would need a "Premium" bullet?

For the 7x57 or for that matter any of the rounds using the .308 or .30-06 case you simply do not need a premium bullet. The velocities they develop allow stardard bullets to do fine. The possible exceptions are the .243 Win./6MM Rem. and the .25-06.

[nomosendero]

I don't know why either for a 175# Sow.

A 300# Russian Boar with a thick gristle plate or even some big Feral Boars like a few I shot in South AR. years ago is in a different catagory
although I have killed several with Std bullets.

I do for most situations agree with what Graybeard said. For the most part, I would draw the line in the same places that he does. I like to use them in the 25-06AI, the bullets are dang fast up close & afterall aren't
heavy, the reason for Graybeard's remark. I killed a bunch of animals with this round & I know what works best for me.

With the medium rounds like the 7X57 & the rounds Graybeard mentioned,
they aren't being pushed very hard & usually a person will use a different round anyway for Brown Bears & such. You sure don't need them for Deer & medium Hogs at these velocities. The situation where I would differ is if I used one of the modest rounds for Elk, I would prefer the premium in timber if only a shoulder shot was offered, many are killed with std. bullets with shoulder shots, just stating my preference to close
the deal. The cost of the bullet is a mute point when the overall cost of a Western trip is considered in gas alone.

For the magnums like a 7mm or 300WM, RUM & so forth, the advantage of premium bullets is clear & is THE way to go for most situations. If a person doesn't want to hunt with a Magnum, then they don't have to worry themselves with this catagory. I use them for some hunts & IF you can take advantage of the performance, they will eventually payoff for you, even if it is one opportunity in many years.
 
Sometimes there are niche reasons for shooting premium bullets as well,
for example I have a 30-06 that love ballistic tips but as most of us know they can be quite fragile, I mean much more so than a regular std. bullet like a Hornady, so in that situation I load the Accubond to hunt with even
though it is a little better bullet than I need & I can practice with the Bal. Tip which flyes the same. Some people have found that the TSX is the most accurate bullet they shoot (very different than old X) in their gun
& so they use it whether controlled expansion is needed or not.

So some folks have a need to use the premium bullets for one reason or another & some don't, nothing wrong with that & I am glad we have
both prem. & std. so that we can all be happy.
 
Ultimately, the experienced hunter needs to use what works for him &
shoots good in his rifles, that's what counts the most.

[kombi1976]

You know, this really reinforces a couple of conclusions I came to a while ago.
Firstly, "medium rounds", as nomosendero terms them, kill very effectively.
Additionally they require less expensive components and less powder for an result that may be less dramatic but makes the game just as dead.

[rickt300]

Fot the shot I took on that sow the same placement would have dropped the biggest uggliest hog in Texas. But I wasn't looking for him. I saw 4 hogs and she was the smallest, the others were at least 300 pounds. I have to say the area around Guthrie Texas has big hogs and it is harder to find a good meat hog than a big ugly one. They are a big nuisance too, digging holes in the sandy roads that honestly would require no work to bury a volkswagon in and destroying feeders is their favorite pastime. The lease manager is about to insist we shoot some of the big SOB's with or without finess and I will use my 45-70 for this. The truth is as long as I pick my shots just about any reasonable rifle and bullet combination will do the job.

[nomosendero]

I use the premiums 30-40% of the time for situations that can give me the edge. Many people don't have these conditions & therefore don't need them & some do, simple as that.
I have allready given some examples.

A few years ago, big brother harvested one of the biggest 6x6 Whitetails
that I had seen in years, in person on in a magazine. He used a .223 with
factory 55 Gr. Core Lokt. Let me tell you that placement (double lung)
with that load at that yardage (30 yards) will take the biggest Whitetail walking. Now, does that make the 223 a Deer round, NOPE! Does it mean that the 55 Gr. Corelokt is a great Deer bullet, NOPE. Big brother hasn't used it for Deer since that day, that is what he had at the time and he decided to hunt a little while before work. He knew the next time, the opportunity may not be textbook. No, I look at what I need for the worst angles, at the longest ranges I am confident in & on the biggest possible animals. If you look at at those 3 things & a std. bullet works for
you, more power to ya.

[kombi1976]

I use the premiums 30-40% of the time for situations that can give me the edge. Many people don't have these conditions & therefore don't need them & some do, simple as that.
I have allready given some examples.

At this point I should really own up to a little hypocrisy. :oops:
I bought some Woodleigh Weldcore 250gn RNSNs to try in my k98 sporter in 8x57.
They aren't cheap and are a bonded core bullet designed for seriously big game........like moose! :shock:
Since most of the game I hunt is amply taken care of with a work-a-day 150gn pill the controlled expansion 250gn is completely ridiculous. :|
That said, should I remember to take those loads along and come across a rogue camel the next time I'm culling roos I'll be ready for action!

[The Sodbuster]

I gotta tell you, I'm a big fan of Sierra GameKings.  I've only been reloading non-varmint calibers for a couple years and I've generally gotten good accuracy from Sierra's modestly-priced GKs.  In addition, I've shot my .257 Weatherby twice at deer and have had two deer drop in their tracks to 117 grain gamekings.  Admittedly, two deer ain't much of a sample size; and, on top of that, they were button bucks.  But I got no complaints.  It's probably just as likely the next two deer I shoot with them could wind up going 100 yards before they drop.  Hard to say.

For some reason, I feel I should explain my willingness to shoot fawns.  My colleagues give me a hard time about this, but put simply, it's the most tender venison I've ever had.  As long as I can get an antlerless tag and not have to use an any-deer tag on a doe or fawn, I'll keep doing it.

[257 roberts]

I've used the Game Kings in 243 Win (100gr.) on several deer and they worked very well :wink:

[kombi1976]

I'm a big fan of the GameKing too.
I use a the .257 cal 90gn HPBT in my 303/25 and it's my main kangaroo load.
Knocks them senseless and regularly punches through the engine room obliterating the heart & lungs before exiting.
The only reason I'm not using one in my 8x57 is that the only GameKing in this cal is a 220gn, way bigger than my needs.

[Brithunter]

Hi all,

     In a managed deer herd there will be times when the does really need to be thinned out and if the Doe still has young at heel then the young are shot first. This is because if the Doe runs off and does not return you still have the dead fawn so the herd is reduced however most of the time if you remain still and concealed the Doe will return to check her fawn and the Doe can be harvested as well. If you shoot the Doe first and the fawn runs off and does not return it will die a slow lingering death through starvation  

    Now as for Sierra bullets ................... well I try to avoid them if at all possible. After having a 180 grain .308 bullet blow up on the ribs of a 35lb Roe Doe at about 90 yards I simply don't trust them. I buy them if I can get absolutley nothing else  :roll: .

[rickt300]

When the Ballistic tips first came out it seemed to generate a huge amount of bad press for all cup and core bullets, even creating that phrase. I admit to not using the BT's and the Gamekings for a while because of it. I also no longer use any real magnums with the exception of the 270 for more open country and really like velocities between 2600 and 2800 fps for my Texas hunting. I have found that any soft point lead exposed bullet gives me perfect results at those velocities and a recent experiment with the 150 grain BT in the 7x57 showed it was fine at the aforementioned velocities. I also avoid slamming bullets into the shoulder because of meat damage much preferring to hit just in front of it in the neck or behind it. The variety of "Premium" bullets offering extreme penetration or weight retention is now extraordinary. In my younger years it was Barnes originals or the Partition and that was all of them. The prices were out of sight compared to 7 dollars or less for a box of any of the common hunting bullets and they seldom were on the shelf to be bought. I used them not at all then and very little now though I have tested the TSX on paper and have occasionally used the partitions for those "niche" projects. Possibly the partitions will participate in the hog reduction program out of my 270 in 150 grain weight.

[Slamfire]

Way back B(efore) P(remium) bullets we used Corelokts or Silvertips if we wanted controlled expansion, and Bronze points for explosive expansion. Then came the ne plus ultra, the Nosler Partition. One look at the price tag, 50 bullets for the price of a 100, and I learned to shoot slower.  :wink:  :-D

[nomosendero]

I know that I left those 8 tracks laying around here somewhere.

[Mac11700]

I know that I left those 8 tracks laying around here somewhere.

Probably right next to your old 78rpm records      

Premium bullets are just that... Premium ...they are designed to preform over a wider velocity range and target range...hence their higher cost...A good friend told me once..." When going on a once a year big game hunt...the bullets are the least expensive part of the trip...but can have the biggest impact on a successful hunt when the time comes"...

If you don't feel you ever need to use them..then don't...if you do ..then do..it's that simple...my way of doing things makes me what some call a Pesamistic Optomist...I plan for the worst...& hope for the best...so I choose to use them :wink:  
 

Mac

[Brithunter]

Actually I find this reluctance to pay by American shooters rather amusing. The prices they all complain about are cheap to what we have to pay over here  :roll:  I do not use Premium bullets as I do need them and it's not just for a once a year hunt either as we have Deer Hunting all year round  :lol: It's been a quite year this last one as I moved at the end of May 05 but from January to the move I put 4 deer in the freezer. 2 Roe and 2 Fallow. Have only shot one small Muntjac Buck this year but hope to go again and get at least a Roe  :wink:  and if ............................. if I can swing it the hope is to go for a Sika or Red later in the year :wink:

Now as an example of prices, a box of normal Hornady 130 grn Spire Point bullets in .308 costs about $40 US here :roll: .

[rickt300]

Price is not the sticking point, it's tha absence of actual "Premium" performance. Penetration is not everything. A bullets design is no excuse for taking low percentage shots either. The worst bullet failures I have witnessed were due to lack of expansion (early Barnes X). I have yet to see quicker killing bullets than those put out by Sierra, Hornady or Speer. I admit to likeing the Nosler Partition for certain tasks and some of the bonded bullets are looking pretty good. But Barnes bullets are definitly on light duty till I am satisfied they will perform with consistency. I also take trips to several states every yesr. I am picky about shot presentation and consider shooting at the hind end of an animal unsporting unless the animal has already been wounded. As for you "Premium" bullets users how you spend your money is fine with me but proving their use has any real superiority ove most other bullets is a tough row to hoe.

[nomosendero]

I have noticed a strange phenomenon that has occured on this Forum
since I have been here and odds are it will never end. Some folks who
are happy with std. bullets (and that's fine & who cares) wish to start a discussion or argument by telling all of us wandering in the Wilderness that std. bullets are it & we just don't need premium bullets. I have even seen several people tell us that the TSX won't shoot & I know that they have not worked up loads for these. But, they draw their expertise from the old X bullets that they tried years ago & many of those were not accurate. Well, Wa Wa! Now before someone has to post (quite predictable) & say that the TSX is not accurate for you, yes that happens as it does for ANY other bullet as rifles have their own personality.
 
However, I do not see people who use various types of premium bullets starting similar discussions about why you should only use premium bullets. I wonder why that is? Could it be that they know why & do not need to justify it? I think Soooo!
It works for me. I don't care if Joe Sixpack two doors down knows or understands it if I know.

I don't know why any premium bullet users would need to prove the superiority of their bullets.

Does someone have to prove that a stock Corvette can outrun a stock Kia? Does Royce Gracie have to prove to all of us that he can whip Barbara Boxer. No, but I wish he would.  

I mean, after enough research is done, some things are obvious.

The ONLY reason that I post in these type of threads is to merely state
what I use & why. It is not to prove anything, try to convert, get people to buy etc. When I offer this info. the reader can either run with it or decide they don't need it & that is cool with me. Afterall this time next year you can bet that the same tired subjects will be discussed with the same lack of results. I would prefer that many different type & brands of bullets are sold, as this will keep bullet prices more competitive for both premium & std. bullets.

And if a person wants to hunt the 7 Continents with factory ammo in a 30-40 Krag because that is all you need, then knock yourself out.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

      Hmm perhaps a little more explaination is called for. I don't personally need premium bullets as the Deer I hunt do not require them  :grin: OK a Fallow Buck in the Rut can be harder to put down due their being pumped up, Sika have a reputation for not going down easily but a premium bullet does not alter that fact. Red Deer can weigh up to 350lb and a bit more in some cases but again are not a thick skinned animal so the normal Hornady Inter Lock works fine. In cartain places in the UK we now have European Boar runing wild again but again even these are quite suited to the normal hunting bullet so we do not have the type of beasts which might require bonded cores and mono-metal bullets.  :wink:

[Mac11700]

I find it rather amusing why someone wants justification on the use of premium bullets..

Price is not the sticking point, it's tha absence of actual "Premium" performance.

This kind of generalization statement cracks me up...I would ask the poster...How would you actually know about them ...unless you actually did a direct comparision with each bullet on the same animal  from everyones rifle here under everyone elses hunting situation...What may be acceptable bullet performance to you may be completely different to anyone else..While you may pass up shots...someone else may only have a paticular shot..

The GK bullets have been around for a long time..if you feel these are all that is needed for your hunting needs...fine...use them...and best of luck to you.But why try to start a old arguement of why some one else uses them when you don't feel they are needed..you can only speak for yourself...Premium bullets have their place...just as standard bullets do...

Mac

[rickt300]

I am going to the range this weekend to address the 85 grain TSX in my 6MM remington. I guess what I meant by lack of premium performance is that generally in more than 80% of my shots on game my bullets exit unless I purposly pick a bullet that probably won't. The truth is at least in my experience I can get very reliable performance from standard bullets of the right weight and construction for the game I am persuing. In the taking of many game animals I have had exactly one bullet fail to provide adequate penetration but have had several experiences of lack of expansion and both problems ended up causing longer than wanted tracking jobs.

[Slamfire]

Does Royce Gracie have to prove to all of us that he can whip Barbara Boxer. No, but I wish he would.  

I don't know who he is but if he whips up on her, I'll buy him a box of the most expensive premium bullets made.

I don't care what you shoot, but I was only gettin' $0.85 per muskrat hide when Noslers came out. That was my sole source of money for huntin'. I spent $35 hard earned dollars for a Swedish Model 94 Mauser, and haven't looked at anything that shot bullets faster'n 3000 fps since.  

[captdp]

I hunt with a commercial FN 7x57. I shoot around 10 pigs and a couple of deer. Although I think that a 150GK or a 154 Interlock are a good choice, I chose the 150 Partition. I buy the seconds. I have two loads: one around 2700fps and one around 2800fps. I chose the Partition because It opens quickly, for deer, yet will penetrate even the biggest pig. That'sit is designed to do and I feel confident using it.If I were just deer hunting I'd probably use a 140 BT or GK and a 154 for hogs. capt david

[rickt300]

I have been shooting a 308 and my 7x57 sort of as a way to see if one is better than the other. Well I rebarrelled the 308 to 6MM remington last weekend. Not because the 308 ever failed me but it never showed a clear cut superiority either. My collection of bullets in .284 needs thinning and I have a 30-06 anyway. As soon as the Ballistic tips and Gamekings are gone I will work up some loads with the 154 and 175 greain Hornady RN interloks.

[killdeer]

Were I drivin a Mouser, I'd opt for some non premium interlocks.



But I Ain't and I don't................

[rickt300]

The 6MM finally properly bedded and taken to the range did show nice shooting with the TSX. Weekend after next The lease manager and I are going to Guthrie to kill some hogs but solid copper HP or not I still prefer a bigger gun for big pigs. As to "Premium" bullet users not starting threads saying their pet bullet is better than all others you ought to look again.

[jro45]

Sometimes I use them and sometimes I don't. I think that 'most' bullets are good stuff. They been out there for a long time so I figure somebodys
using them. I read forums where they are being used and get good reports. Both Premium and not.

[nomosendero]

Or look again at what I actually said, which was that I don't see people
starting threads saying why you should use ONLY premium bullets. Not to say that someone never has, I am just not aware of it.

[Harold50]

Have bought the new 25 Whiz'em because it is light to lug. Hunted for years with a sporterized 03A3 weighing 10 pounds with the Bishop Alaskan stock and a 1970 Bushnell 3x9. Used Sierra 165s. Went to a Rem 700 in .270  because it was lighter and I used Sierra 130GKs. Killed deer with both.

Now, in the Whiz'em, I use 120 grain NPs. Why? First of all, I know they'll work. Secondly, I can afford them. Lastly, there is some difference, perhaps not much,  between a 25 Whiz'em shooting 120s and a .270 shooting 130s. I think the NPs make up for that difference. Still, were I once again young and near broke and buying shoes for the kids, I'd be happy to use the 117GKs in the .257.

Sometimes I'll put premium gas in the truck - it likes it. Sometimes I wear a tie to church even though the Lord couldn't care less - I feel better about myself when I do. So it is with premium bullets. They'll work for sure, and, frankly, I'm too old to be up half the night, two miles from the truck, looking under the bushes for a hurt deer.

Just my two cents worth,
Harold

[rickt300]

You have to be careful of the company when you talk premium bullets. Some don't consider the Nosler Partition a premium design (I do) simply because it is not expensive enough or that it was designed around the time we were trying to get to the moon. I finally traded my 300 Winchester magnum off as I just never felt it's powere necessary though I used it elk hunting mostly. Yes if you use really high velocity rifles at close ranges (why?) then possibly some of the new designs will cut down on meat damage.